FRANCONIA IRON STREWN FIELD HUNTING INFO

[ASTROBLEME]

Over the past few weeks I've been working on scientific solutions to why the Franconia Iron Meteorites do not fit into known meteoritic classifications even though three years of specimen collection has passed. After presenting detailed factual explanations as to what is being recovered along the railroad tracks west of Franconia AZ, I've met fierce resistance. I discovered that three steam engines crashed head-on at high speed at the Franconia Iron Strewn Fields location in 1901. Yet, that source of nickel steel/iron is quickly dismissed by those that hunt this area with metal detectors.

I've been shocked at how people would reject proven possibilities for the nickel/iron fragments that are being collected there. Now I've found a plausible reason why.

Franconia Iron hunting is a way that those folks that don't have ownership interests in, or otherwise control the area, are using to keep others from finding true meteorites. Franconia Iron is promoted and sold as meteorites even though no classification is complete. The reason...to prevent others from finding real meteorites, in my opinion.

Franconia is a strewn field but it isn't for iron meteorites. Scientific classification was completed on the Franconia Chondrite meteorite some years ago. Now, it seems in my opinion that, there is a conscious effort to deceive those that want to hunt this area by putting forth the "Franconia Iron" strewn field story. What better way is there to deceive meteorite hunters than tell them to look for "irons" when the target is actually a chondrite? Chondtites are more difficult to detect than iron meteorites so those finding scrap iron are well satisfied with their efforts. This decoy operation secures recovery of authentic meteorite specimens from this area to those that know the JOKE. Is it on you?

ASTROBLEME

[JamesR]

[ASTROBLEME]

Dear JamesR:

One little icon is the response from you? I expected more than that. Why not rip into my posting with well supported facts? I love to discuss these matters in an intelligent manner. Give it some thought...

ASTROBLEME

[JamesR]

I wrote what I thought in your other thread.

Are you claiming conspiracy?

[Jayray]

Ok, I'll bite. First off, who exactly is selling Iron Meteorites from Franconia? I haven't seen any Ebay or are these being sold through a dealer? Second, why would those that hunt in the recovery field (as opposed to a strewn field, which would indicate someone seeing the fall) deceive those who want to hunt it to find chrondrites or any other material? Looking for "irons" or chrondrites are the same when using a metal detector, at least in my opinion. The chrondite material I have found there sounds the same as the iron material, but then again I 've been told I have bad hearing from my wife... Just curious on the supposed deception those that hunt the area. As far as I know, anyone can hunt there, as long as you know where Franconia is. Jason <_>

[Mr-Meteorite]

ASTROBLEME,

Why oh why did you let the cat out of the bag? For years myself and other successful meteorite hunters "in the know" have been secretly planting fake meteorites in the area. We'd go to scrap yards all across Arizona and buy all of the nickel rich scrap we could, it was mostly stainless steel.

Then after renting an airplane we'd dump the scrap from over 35,000 feet. As it fell it formed fusion crust and tiny craters. Then while all the world collected these METEOR WRONGS we cleaned up at legit strewn fields like Portales, Glorieta, Correo, Gold Basin, Holbrook and of course the Franconia chondrites.

But now you've gone and ruined everything!

No Matter! Our next scheme, is it to make fake comet craters and then convince the world that we've discovered a string of them.

Ha Ha. No one will be the wiser!!!

What? Oh he has? He did? ........Rats!

Never mind.

[Paleface]

ASTROBLEME,

2 quotes by you..........

QUOTE

Now if this "strewn field" was not adjacent to 100+ year old railroad tracks, and there wasn't a head on collision RIGHT WHERE EVERONE IS LOOKING....well maybe I'd consider going to the area and collecting some for myself. Better yet, if someone were to offer a piece of a classified specimen of “Franconia Iron”, I’d be happy to pay market price to add it to my collection. That way I wouldn’t have to risk being hit by a train to collect my own! TOOT TOOT!

And this QUOTE

Jim:

Thanks for the reference to birds. Did I mention that I also have a degree in Wildlife Biology? What avian species are we considering here now?

TOOT TOOT!

UNQUOTE

In answer to the first quote, since you know everything, then you probably know that the market price of a Franconia Iron over 30 grams has been established at $20 a gram and up. It is a high probability that you may just get the chance to be happy and pay market price.

TOOT TOOT !!!

In answer to your second quote, I am sure that since you have a degree in Wildlife Biology, you can name the animal that produces (smarter pills) munching a handfull will make ya a whole lot smarter.

I personally think that you also have a degree in ................

TOOT TOOT

Absolutely the last time that I lower my standards this low. You are simply not worth the effort.

Jim

[fredmason]

Oh, come now...a deliberate attempt to keep others from finding "real meteorites"???? Your earlier attempts to explain the origins of Franconia Irons were much more entertainng than this paranoid post...perhaps you just love to stir things up...it can be fun.

Fred

[ASTROBLEME]

Oh, come now...a deliberate attempt to keep others from finding "real meteorites"???? Your earlier attempts to explain the origins of Franconia Irons were much more entertainng than this paranoid post...perhaps you just love to stir things up...it can be fun.

Fred

Dear Fred:

What other logic is there that explains the efforts to encourage people to come and collect out there on the public lands. Meteorites found on Federal Lands are deemed property of the Smithsonian Institute under the Antiquities Act. Picking up scrap iron isn't breaking any law so what a great diversion.

If I was removing antiquities found on Department of Interior Lands, I'd be paranoid. If I were selling scrap iron at $20 per gram and calling it a meteorite, I'd be paranoid. Posting an opinion here and getting personally attacked for it...well I guess maybe it could make me paranoid.

ASTROBLEME

[fredmason]

Your post basically accuses some very good people of nefarious and fradulent actions...with only your opinion as proof of such activities...only your theory of a suspect source of the "irons" and now a dubious legal opinion; that is personal! Are you also a legal expert? BTW, just because the Government has used the Antiquities Act to seize objects does not make those seizures legal...the government thinks (a oxymoron) that it owns everything...which it gets away with through the bottomless well of taxpayer money used to force people into submission. Btw, I should have said "paranoid sounding post" I did not, in my lazy writing,intend to personally attack you...as I said before I would enjoy meeting you along the way.

Fred

[Nugget Shooter]

Re-read thread twice....exiting room shaking head.

Bill

[joe26or]

I discovered that three steam engines crashed head-on at high speed at the Franconia Iron Strewn Fields location in 1901.

Ok guy's,

I cann't resist finding out how this sinario is possible on rail road tracks (====) ???? Two engines head on crash is easy....... two directions of travel, and each of 3 engines being head on collided (is there a spur or other type of intersection at this location)??? :???:

Astrobleme,

is there any link on the web or other electronic file you can share so that I can read the details about that crash?? If not how can I find a hard copy of the details to read about it??

[ASTROBLEME]

Ok guy's,

I cann't resist finding out how this sinario is possible on rail road tracks (====) ???? Two engines head on crash is easy....... two directions of travel, and each of 3 engines being head on collided (is there a spur or other type of intersection at this location)??? :???:

Astrobleme,

is there any link on the web or other electronic file you can share so that I can read the details about that crash?? If not how can I find a hard copy of the details to read about it??

Good Morning joe26or:

Sworn testimony from the U. S. Supreme Court covering the Franconia wreck can be found here...

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getc...us/202/438.html

ASTROBLEME

[sawmill]

joe26or

If you are serious about information on the train wreck.

Contact Nancy Sawyer at Arizona State Library,History and

Archives Division. She is a professional researcher, and a real

nice lady.

Astrobleme brought this all up as a theory. A theory is just

a working idea not a proven fact. I can't find fault with a man

having a constructive idea or theory.

Due to some old ideas and stories some things are taken for

fact that are not real. I will attempt to post the newspaper version.

Old newspapers were not based on fact,and were more or less

the opinion of the reporter,with a lot of hype. They kind of made

things up when they didn't have the facts,or the facts didn't make

things grab attention.

I have under lined untrue statements in the newspaper. I circled

the real facts on the sworn statement. The newspaper has exploding

trains and boilers. Non of the sworn statements ,court,doctors,or

wittness accounts mention explosions of any kind.

As for high speed, Santa Fe's great claim to fame was a coast to

coast train in 1901. It had several break downs and averaged a

whopping 42 mph.

fr2.BMP

fr4.BMP

fr5.BMP

[joe26or]

Hi all,

Well so far I've read one theory, and read some documentation about the train wreck. The one thing that seems to be fact is that about 1901 there was a train wreck around 2 miles west side area outside of Franconia. ASTROBLEME as a seintific researcher, you should know the difference between theory and proven scientific fact.... at this time, I have not seen anything to lead me to conclude that the two events are connected. Yes your theory may account for a small percentage of the meteorite wrongs found in the area of the wreck, But still doesn't explain the finds from the rest of the Franconia area. I do enjoy reading and learning about meteorites as I expect others fallowing the meteorite forum do. Who knows maybe some day we'll get lucky enough to find a meteorite and with the help of these posts have a chance to recognise it, instead of chucking it thinking it is just another hot rock..... :hmmmmm: ASTROBLEME now I pose a new theory to you..... do you suppose that it is possible for more than one meteorite's strewn field to overlap durring the earths estimated 4 and a half billion year life time? :hmmmmm:

[Basaltgooroo]

how often to we as a planet drift into the astroid belt? over so many billions years it may have overlaped an area many times. wouldn't the earth drifting into the belt go along with the chain crater ideas? of course its imposible for an iron chondrite to be peeled out of a chondrite, even tho there are hundreds of examples of chondrites with irons chondrites half peeled out.

sometime someone should do some tests to see if strewn fields can overlap. even thoe its been proven with finds of the L material in the franconia field.

lets run that idea up the flag pole and see if anyone salutes it.

[JamesR]

We never enter the asteroid belt. Asteroids smash into each other sending them sometimes our way.

Most strewnfields overlap (my opinion).

I assume chain craters are caused by A fragmented asteroid which has held some of it's many pieces close in a common orbit.

Here is a strewnfield map of the Dar al Gani Plateau in Libya.

Not sure what you're saying about chondrules.

[Basaltgooroo]

well my info is only acurate to my copyright 2000 science book lol.

thanks thats very interesting

[Bill w TX]

Quote "I discovered that three steam engines crashed head-on

at high speed at the Franconia Iron Strewn Fields

location in 1901."

the only logical explanation was that when the three

trains (invisibalbe track?) collided the engineers pockets

were full of nickels hence you have the nickel steel/iron that

the people have been finding and no this planet

is not billions of years old as the good book says

(Bible) this planet is around 6,000 years old.

These space rocks fall from the sky and when I was

at the 24K claims one night seen a real low beautiful

green ball of fire in the sky and smaller balls of fire

flying off in all directions and then it turned into a red

ball of fire and disapatted, very beautiful sight to see

just ask Colarado Bob he seen it too :woohoo:

[Nugget Shooter]

:hmmmmmm: :spinnin:

Bill

[Basaltgooroo]

It funny how the % of people

think the irons are terestrial

drops when you exclude the people

who have never even been to the

franconia area and found one themselves.

i think there are only one or two people that

think they are terestrial that have actually been

there and found one. lmao

Another thing, the four planets closest to

the sun are called the terrestrial planets,

so wouldn't meteorites from mars and the

moons of the planets be terrestrial?

And has anyone ever found meteorite material

from mars's moons Phobos & Deimos?

Also mars had at least 3 other moons that

fell out of orbit and scraped along mars's

surface leaving giant valleys shaped like ovals.

did any pieces of these moons come into earths

atmosphere?

[Erik]

[ASTROBLEME]

Thanks sawmill!!!!:

Your research into the wreck revealed some excellent facts.

One thing that was mentioned in the documentation you provided might help folks understand the matter more fully. The newspaper quote referencing the 5:12 AM wreck on Wednesday was this;

"The mass of iron was still too hot Thursday" to make a thorough examination of it..." A FULL DAY HAD PASSED AND STILL, AFTER ALL THAT TIME, NOBODY COULD GET INTO THE HOT IRON TO SEARCH FOR REMAINS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Melted train wreck metal at Franconia? Most certainly there was plenty to be spread around over the passing decades in the area now being searched. Please use caution when identifying metal scrap as "Franconia Iron" meteorites!

Sincerely,

ASTROBLEME

[sawmill]

Astrobleme

Where have you been?

Nice try ,but not well thought out. :POsmiley01:

Read the details, Burning oil and wood heats

large globs of iron . Too hot for human hands,

and flesh, but not molten.

There was smoldering fire that kept the metal

and the area too hot for a search. :hmmmmmm:

Also a few burning cross ties. They knew there

were no survivors in the fire . They didn't have

equipment to fight it with,so they just let it burn

out.

My saw mill stayed hot for three days after it

burned. There was a massive effort to put it out,

and it was darn near floating in water in places.

The steel and iron sagged and bent ,but did'nt

melt. Plus it was fanned by 40 to 60 mph wind. :angry-smiley-010:

The mill burned for 12 hours before the fire crew

showed up, so it was plenty hot. They pumped

8000 gallons on one spot . The water evaporated

before it could reach the fire from heat.

But the metal DID NOT melt.

[sawmill]

Johnny

Just another note and a tidbit to mull over.

The wreck was 4 miles downhill from any of

the strewn fields. If you can prove that water

runs uphill at Franconia,then you may be on

to something. :bowdown:

May I suggest that if,you are really concerned

about scrap iron. Go to Franconia ,gather specimen

from the strewn field. Have it tested,and if some of

it is not from space. Do a real study to find out

what it is and the cause, and quit chasing trains.

If you decide to really be scientific instead of

acting like a real bad lawyer ,let me know. :grrr01:

This has been an interesting debate,and the research

has been fun. But I think we should move on,and

look at the real picture.

[Nugget Shooter]

:coffeetime: