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The 1st time I ran into BLM land with no access to it was in SD, and it wasn't a big deal. All I was looking for was a place to camp, and with no road going in to it, it was off limits to the Slimmobile anyway. Now I am camped by El Dorado CA, and there are some nice tracts of BLM land around here with roads going to them but the last section of these roads are supposedly private, and there are SIGNS AND EVEN GATES prohibiting access to these public lands.

These are totally different scenarios. In one case, there never was a road, and in this case there was a road but now it is private.

It appears that some judge out here set a bad precedent and allowed an access road that existed WAY BEFORE a piggy owner took posession of private property ON THE ROAD and allowed him/her/it to close the road to the public, thereby making public land beyond that property inaccessible.

Thomas Jefferson must have been rolling in his grave when that ruling happened but I am astounded that this could happen. I am so angry that I think my car just might break down on a one lane bridge on one particular road that is public, then all of a sudden private.

It doesn't matter whether you want to metal detect, pan, dredge or simply have a picnic or look for rocks, these people were allowed to take public land away from the public and that simply ain't right.

Any thoughts?

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Slim,

I will definatly put my two cents in this. I am one of those that put a gate across my private property where the road EVENTUALLY turns into a trail that leads to BLM land (my claim). For years I kept the road open and accessable to all. I wish you could have seen it when we were there together. People have dumped dead microwave ovens, refrigerators, boxes of unknown trash, much miscellaneous trash over the embankment on MY road. When I caught some one that built a fire in the middle of the road during a no fire in the forest time, that was my limit and I gated the road. So be it because the general public does not care one hoot about my land and looks at it like a dump. This has happened in many places in Eldorado County and the there are numerous islands of BLM land surrounded by private property.

The BLM and the county told me it was my right to be able to protect my property and restrict acess anyway I see fit. I have also given permission to pass to any that ask. So if you want to think of me as a "piggy" owner that is up to you. My 40 acres was parceled in 1911 and signed into private property via patent by President Taft.

Personally I thing you should take that anger to our wonderfull politicians that are constantly attempting to take away all access to public land by converting it to wilderness.

http://www.petitiononline.com/boxer/petition.html

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Here in AZ there is a ghost town (stockton) that is surrounded by private land and there is no way to get to it.

I have called and gone to talk to BLM in person and all I get is that the private land owners can close the roads off. So as tax payers we have public land that has no access and there seems nothing we can do about it. :WOW: . To me this sucks, but what can you do.

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Slim some of these areas can be accesed by hiking down the river which is legal as long as it's navigatable. For instace, you can walk down the american at chilli bar, or up the consumnes or down weber creek. Good panning at some of these spots.

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There are laws for people who litter or destroy property. Someone f*cked up big time in allowing a few people to prevent access to these public lands. I spoke with the El Dorado County Sherriff's office today. They referred me to the highway department and the highway deprtment referred me to the BLM. The BLM told me to get a lawyer and go to court.

If public land can not be accessed, it shouldn't be called "public". Without access it isn't worth a dime EXCEPT to those who live around it. Those who "control" the land by preventing access should PAY for the land via tax assessments. If they don't want to pay the taxes, they can open the freaking roads back up. I don't know the terms relating to land rights, but I find it unbelievable that someone can close down a road that was used to access public property. I find it even more unbelievable that people would stand by and let it happen.

I'm usually an easy going guy but I don't buy this sh*t at all.

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Slim some of these areas can be accesed by hiking down the river which is legal as long as it's navigatable. For instace, you can walk down the american at chilli bar, or up the consumnes or down weber creek. Good panning at some of these spots.

Right, but what about the freaking ROADS that have been used for the last couple hundred years? They go for MILES past the houses of the people that have privatized the roads. How do the fire trucks get to these houses when they start burning down?

When the people bought the property there was a road going through it.

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I whole-heartedly agree with everything being said on this post. Lately I have found a lot of roads blocked off to BLM land up here in Montana too. It's just not right when some rancher decides to deny access to a public road that continues on for miles on public land past his property. All the while he is taking advantage of the public land by free-ranging his cattle on it all summer. Double standards? I'm starting to lose respect for ranchers up here, they are like the Montana Mafia. They own a very large part of our state and they have a huge influence in the state government.

Brian

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I don't blame the ranchers, or people like El Dorado. I blame the system and the BLM that allows people to close roads that are/or were being used by others to access public land. What kind of "land management" is that???

I don't have the time or resources to dig into this, but I'd sure like to get the 60 Minutes people to dig into this and put it on TV. You know, interview a few members of the public who are being denied access, interview the BLM, interview a landowner and then interview a judge who has ruled that one person can keep the rest of the public off public land.

THEN I'd like to see them interview the local tax assessor who undoubtedly turns a blind eye to this land grab.

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In my case, I had to clear 3/4 mile of road of manzanita, brush and poison oak so it could be passable even with my ATV. The road has obvioulsly not been used by the public for at least 20-30 years judging by the age of the manzanita. There is also another road north of my property that is totally overgrown that is accessable by the public through BLM land. so if someone want to access the river they are free to do so, but they will have to spend the 2 to 3 weeks clearing the road just as I did with mine. Mind you, that my area did not get trashed out untill I put forth all the time and effort to clear the road. It is not like it was an open road for years and I just closed it. I find that is is very sad that some have to spoil things for so many. I am also the one that does the yearly maintenance on the road with no assistance from the BLM. And, I must do it with hand tools not machinery because the reclamation bond I am forced to post with the BLM would go up tenfold if I were to use machinery to do the work. On the 40 acres that I also have under claim adjacent to my property I do Pay taxes to El Dorado county, not to mention the rather steep taxes on my 40 acres.

Once again, I have never refused access to my property when someone has requested it, And people can certainly walk to the river through my property. Anyone that wishes to take me to court on my actions is more than willing to, but it will be a waste of their money. Also, in order the get the sheriff to take action on the people dumping, there has to be a witness.. fat chance! AND fire agencies have a key available to them and or permission to destroy the gate if needed!

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Hi El Dorado,

I understand your situation and why you closed off your road. Landowners like you are not who are we are talking about here. My problem is with the people blatently blocking access to roads with right of ways. I have run into many major roads on national forest and BLM land that have been blocked off by private land owners with no regard for the law. The fact that these government agencies don't give a darn that this is happening really irks me.

My step-dad is a mechanic that occasionally works on BLM equipment. I asked him what they used all of the equipment for, and he said that they mainly use it for putting in wells on BLM land for ranchers (not for maintaining roads). Huh? Taxpayers are paying for wells that only the ranchers use? It's just not right! The way the system works now public land is not for the public.

Brian

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And those ranchers pay a hefty lease price every year for that land knowing well that the BLM can take it away from them. Personally, I think that the BLM does a great job managing the land, it is my opinion that the Forest Circus does not do well. They have a hidden green aganda that will in many areas take away access to public land in the name of the public good. Just try to deal with the FS in an attempt to start up a real mining op vs. the BLM. Hands down the BLM will bend over backwards to do their job and the FS will bend over backwards to bury you in red tape! Been there and done that.

And Slim, eventhough you think I am a "Piggy" you are still welcome to come on my land and or claim to try to find some of my yellow metal!

I will be going there this week to set up a summer camp and I will post when if you want to come on down, but not in the Slimmobile (no room to turn it around). The construction crew doing the road project will only let me in from the Mosquito side.

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Thanks for the offer Steve. I'll probably take you up on that as soon as they open Mosquito Rd., provided I have my Samurai running. I've driven Rock Creek Road too many times to go out that that way again.

The real estate term I was searching for is "emminent domain", and I found it by doing a Google search for "BLM, access". I found an interesting article about some land in Washington State. The article follows. along with a link.

For the record, I disagree with any legislation, or action, that takes away the rights of people to access or use public property. The save-the-desert-tortois people were successful (short term thankfully) in shutting down miles and miles of CA desert last year to anyone except those on foot or horseback.

Selling that private land in Wyoming without any access is akin to the BLM (or other state or federal agency) selling land surrounding public property without retaining an easement (the roads). The fact that this has been done is unbelievable because nobody should be that stupid. If they are that stupid they certainly shouldn't be entrusted with public assets.

The people I spoke with at the sherriff's office, the highway department and the BLM all had one thing in common. They didn't want to talk about it. I smell payoffs.

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All Hail BLM's Mighty Kiosk

Today's Tri-Cities Herald (free reg. req.) appropriately takes to task the Spokane office of the federal Bureau of Land Management, for not maintaining public access to public lands. A property owner has blocked the private road leading into the Juniper Dunes Wilderness Area in southeastern Washington. It is a large reserve offering camping, hiking, horseback-riding, off-road vehicle areas, wildflowers, stargazing and high desert terrain dotted with Western Juniper. Instead of permanently securing access to this public resource via eminent domain, the BLM has put up an outdoor informational kiosk explaining to visitors why they can't enter right now. The Herald opines:

....failure to do something meaningful about closure of a prize national recreational resource indicates BLM simply does not understand the magnitude of either its irresponsible inaction or the great wrong done to would-be visitors to Juniper Dunes. In answer to this infringement on public rights, BLM is providing a kiosk....An access road through the private land should be obtained by exercising the government's condemnation rights and the owner paid for the inconvenience and seizure of his property. Problem solved.

Or so you'd think. The BLM maintains numerous public recreation sites in Washington state. Will kiosks be the new default option whenever access issues arise? Maybe for spring break, I'll just stay on this side of the mountains.

From http://www.soundpolitics.com/archives/004018.html

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Here's another one....

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Nearly everyone who is familiar with the Bullwhacker Road has assumed it to be a public road, perhaps a county road, not excluding the BLM who manages the approximately 175,000 acres of public land it accesses. When the BLM began the Resource Management Plan (RMP) process for the new national Monument, the BLM discovered the road never went through the petition process that would designate it as an official county road and that the first 2 1/2 miles of this perennially-open road traversed across private property and was, in fact, a private road. Although the rancher told BLM officials that he also always thought it was a public road, he recently changed his policy and exercised his legal rights to shut down the entrance now that it was determined to be a private road across his property to vast amounts of public acreage alleging that illegal activity in the area had left him with no choice.

--------------------------------------------------

Notice the talking point? "Illegal activity" in this case.

Instead of doing the right thing and MAKING it a public road, they let this guy (or forced him to) shut off 175,000 acres of public land.

Read more!

http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:Fe-Sm...us&ct=clnk&cd=5

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Welcome to the motherlode Slim.There use to be apublic access road through much of California called Ponderosa road,owned by the state.It was a fire road.Thestate abandoned it 20-25 years ago.It accessed much blm ground,at least here in Calaveras county.Your only recourse is to find groundthat borders a county road,and even then some longtime locals will say it's private ground or their claim,even though no one has paid assesment for 25 years.Once in awhile the blm will sell some landlocked ground and offer it to the surrouding landowners first at supposedly fair market value.If you read enough real estate ads you'll often the phrase,it borders or backs up to blm ground.More than 99% of the claims in this county are never used and were taken up during the 1980's on speculation,when claims were 5 bucks or so.Most ofthese were dropped,but they all have different names andare hard to locate without months of research.Everywhere you llok new houses are going in and everyone thinks they own everything including creek beds.Mostly your just banging your head against the sky looking for any gov't help.the free range lifestyle went the way of the dinosaur long ago.Wish there was more access,but that's life now days.....Dave

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Thanks for your input Dave. I guess a guy needs to start with a map of county roads (and/or state & national forest roads) and basically forget all about using topos. I saw just as many gates in the El Dorado National Forest that pissed me off as I am seeing outside it, and those are some pretty spendy gates the feds are putting up.

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Hello Slim,a better deal is to go to the county assesor's office in the county your visiting,they have all the maps and usuially one big map showing private and public ground.Also the county surveyor's office has great maps with details such as where corner markers are,what there made of(such as pipes,fence posts,rock walls etc.).lot's of old mines up in that area,though some or most is in very steep country.What is that bug I get on all your posts,it knows what type of windows I'm running and my ISP,comes in a little popup box.....Dave

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Just a thought about property rights. The landowners don't need to gate the public access roads that have been established to public lands crossing their property. What they need to do is fence along the road where their property is. That would allow access to public lands and keep the public off their land. Probably a bad idea but just that, an idea.

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In the case of Juniper Dunes, the land owner was forced into closing off access because of liability issues, some jerk tried to sue for damage to his rig while it was parked on his property, as well as all the trash and piles of human waste along the road. If you want to blame someone for restricted access, blame the right people, the ones that cause the problem.

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In the case of Juniper Dunes, the land owner was forced into closing off access because of liability issues, some jerk tried to sue for damage to his rig while it was parked on his property, as well as all the trash and piles of human waste along the road. If you want to blame someone for restricted access, blame the right people, the ones that cause the problem.

Hawke, in a perfect world nobody would litter or damage property. People would own up to their mistakes and not file frivolous lawsuits. The people in charge of public land would also make sure that the public can access it.

These are 3 totally different things. Some people will always litter and damage property. Some will continue to file frivolous lawsuits, but the fact that there is public land that is not accessible to the public is totally unacceptable and that is something that has to change.

Does anyone NOT agree with this?

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Slim, you are right on the money.....however......when you have a little time and want to get more than you bargained for, call Jerry Hobbs @ 909-889-3039 (Jerhobbs2@aol.com)...Jerry is President of Public Lands for the People.....please post what he tells you, I think we could all learn something....Jerry

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JUst to add a bit more to this thread, There is a "NATIONAL PARK" is Alaska you can't even drive to. How is that for public land not open to the public!

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JUst to add a bit more to this thread, There is a "NATIONAL PARK" is Alaska you can't even drive to. How is that for public land not open to the public!

Yeah, but was there ever a road going out there?

BTW, after looking for over a month, I finally found a place to let Nugget go swimming where I didn't have to walk up one side and down the other side of a mountain or worry about him going bye-bye in rapids. It was on the Cosumnes River on Hwy. 49 at the El Dorado/Amador county line. It's called Gold Beach and you can pay a daily use fee there.

I'd sure hate to have to take a kid fishing around here. I guess maybe I'm spoiled. In MN there are over 10,000 lakes, hundreds of rivers and millions of acres of public land, all WITH public access roads. About the only fences you see there are to keep the animals in.

I did find a good camp spot out by Georgetown in the ENF WITH good cell service. I'll be taking the Slimmobile either out there or over to that gal's property in Pleasant Valley this week.

Slim, you are right on the money.....however......when you have a little time and want to get more than you bargained for, call Jerry Hobbs @ 909-889-3039 (Jerhobbs2@aol.com)...Jerry is President of Public Lands for the People.....please post what he tells you, I think we could all learn something....Jerry

Thanks Jerry, but this situation makes me sick to my stomach. I came, I learned, and I'll deal with it. My plate is way too full to be batting my head against a wall. I believe I've seen the Public Lands for the People web site.

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Roads are typically public right of ways (ROW) and if they are established as unblocked they should remain as such and therefore blocking them would be illegal. Of course this isn't always the case and public ROW get blocked... boorb

My friends father owned a very expensive parcel of land that had a very odd ROW at the eastern end, it would have been illegal for him to build a fence since the throughfare had been established years prior (for school kids taking a shortcut) and it was actually on the property description. I run into this stuff all the time at work, landowners seem to think what they see is what they own and typically they tend to ignore the little words 'public ROW' one the edge of their property and block it from public use. This land is usually state owned sometimes it is federal land and the penalties are significant for misappropriation (stealing) of government land.

There should be some type of guide book on land use and ownership, it blows me away that there really isn't any provisions for these types of disputes. Dumping trash on privte property has become a similar problem, aparently if you don't have a sign that specifically says "No Dumping" then it is OK to dump trash, since most courts don't want to deal with these little things. Nothing like gates and fences around dirt lots... :blink:

I would get the city district maps and see where the public ROWs/easements exist and use them, it is against most states laws to block/ gate these roads, plain and simple. Notify your local building/ municipal code enforcement division, they are obligated by law to go to the offending site and inspect the complaint and fix the problem, cite the offender etc.

You could write the government but I doubt that will do squat, keep it at a local level, you'll have a far better chance of getting something done or having the illegal roadblocks removed...

My, :twocents:...

:eee:

edited for spelling...

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