Jump to content
Nugget Shooter Forums

Recommended Posts

Area 51 is also owned by the citizens of the US.... try to get in there and they will shoot first and ask queations later! Not all government owned land is accessable to the public!

In California and in most of the US I imagine, Federal land (Area 51, etc. , owned by the citizens of the USA) is way off limits, big fine and possible incarceration, plus the loss of your machine.

State land that isn't of historical importance is a different story.

Technically the government owns the whole country and if they wanted they could take any or all of your land for basically no reason at any time. (Immanent Domain) Remember the gold grab during the WW's?

On another note...

I have been reading about the hydraulic mining fiasco in CA during the gold rush with all the silt.

Reminded me of your story here.

Keep at it, if you don't it will not change...

HH

JW

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 97
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

no matter what or how or where, we regular guys all lose.

Goldfield Nevada, town of 50,000, and satellite towns of another 20,000, 7 fires and 2 floods. no municipal garbage dump (then), yet take a sifter and work some of them, and soon a ranger will show up to write a ticket. in town, out of town, on a mine dump, placer ground, below the old cabin or homestead.

That's why I applauded that George W was going to allow mining in some national parks, and shrink some of those parks back to a reasonable size. Clinton closed up alot, and the feinstein and cranston shut off the western Calif desert, and what about the grand staircase (lots of gold there too).

BLM has too much power, but the US voter has too much amnesia about politicians and their dirty deeds against the regular folk. We should be the ones jerking their chains, instead of the way it has gotten to be.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay guys, here's another recent court action where The courts have YET AGAIN ruled on the side of the people and the rights of access that PREDATE the BLM and National Forest Service. Dig this, Ben

BRC ACTION ALERT:

GREAT NEWS! FEDERAL COURT DISMISSES UTAH R.S. 2477 LAWSUIT

Dear BRC Action Alert Subscriber,

As most BRC members know, rights of ways granted pursuant to R.S. 2477 are the only guaranteed public access across public lands.

Yesterday, a federal judge in Salt Lake City dismissed a decade old lawsuit designed to diminish or eliminate those public access rights. The lawsuit was filed in 1996 against the Bureau of Land Management in Utah by some of the most notorious anti-access groups, including the Southern Utah Wilderness Alliance and the Sierra Club.

In his ruling, the Utah District Court cited a 10th Circuit Court of Appeals decision. For info on that key decision please read: R.S. 2477: THE LEGAL BATTLE CONTINUES

http://www.sharetrails.org/magazine.cfm?story=705

Joe Baird of the Salt Lake Tribune reports the news:

Environmentalists: Court rules issue is settled, suit is moot

http://www.sltrib.com/utah/ci_4194188

Read and enjoy!

Brian Hawthorne

BlueRibbon Coalition

208-237-1008 ext 102

Link to post
Share on other sites

Friggin Sierra Club.......... if you think this is crazy then "Google" Wildlands Project, or just go here

http://www.twp.org/cms/page1090.cfm

Link to post
Share on other sites
Friggin Sierra Club.......... if you think this is crazy then "Google" Wildlands Project, or just go here

http://www.twp.org/cms/page1090.cfm

EXTINCTION CRISIS

Hurry and donate to this cause. It will take lots of cash to keep these species from going extinct. The only safe refuge will be the public lands. Get the public off the lands so the critters won't go extinct. Many scientists agree. Hurry, hurry....the sky is falling, the sky is falling! :nutty:

Now if some of those scientists were to stand inside an impact crater, they would have a better understanding as to why species go extinct.

Astrobleme

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey Bill, I see alot of new names coming and bring up conflict issue that defiates away from the forum, it is falling prey to what other forms have experienced. This is political conflict while germine, it is destructive to what you have built here. You need to take a look at these new threads!!! Don

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest GotGold
Hey Bill, I see alot of new names coming and bring up conflict issue that defiates away from the forum, it is falling prey to what other forms have experienced. This is political conflict while germine, it is destructive to what you have built here. You need to take a look at these new threads!!! Don
Don,

I respectfully disagree. :(

There is nothing wrong with 'new names' and I don't see the 'conflict' you suggest, however Bill has the final say when it comes to any forum topic.

Through Bills forum I've been able to follow the adventures of "Slim and Nugget"......What an adventure in life! :wubu: I believe 'Slim' pointed out something we should all be concerned with! "Access to Public Lands"

Also, Bill has gone so far as to comment (see post #70) above.

I find the 'Topic' very 'germane' to our ability to access and use pubic lands. Most of us want to do nothing more than enjoy the outdoors and the activities it, the outdoors, offers i. e. camping, fishing and yes prospecting, to name a few. And yes, there are the few 'bad apples' out there that make a mess of things for all of us.

"This is a Political conflict"......... Well I guess it is when one considers all of the players, the BLM, Forest Service and various Environmental Organizations (all of which are funded by the government). Some of those bad apples, mentioned above, are paid to make the 'good guy' look bad through over-regulation of sorts and by means of the cause of a more well funded group or groups.

I said earlier, that I've been following this topic as it progresses! Is it political, YES......but, doing business in any manner requires some degree of politics or salesman-ship.

In closing, where would we be able to use our prospecting, camping, fishing and off-road equipment if the above organizations had the Final say in the entire matter. I must also say that I have learned and benifited from this thread of information, I hope it will continue.

Gary

(Slim, on a side note I hope you're putting together a trip diary that would make for some interesting reading.)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Don, I have to agree with Gary. We should all be concerned about access to public lands. It is far more political than I first imagined, and I, for one, have learned quite a bit from this thread. If nothing else, the information posted here will help people avoid going to areas where finding a place to prospect can be difficult. They can also gain some insight into why that may be.

Gary, yes, I do have an extensive diary. That info will eventually make it to a web site I dedicated before I started out, www.StarCityRV.com. I took the name of Star City because it is a mining ghost town in Nevada I wanted to visit. I didn't make it last year as planned but I was able to stop by briefly and get some photos this year. Nugget and I are done fishing and back to prospecting btw. We are just outside of Ely, NV.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi All,

I think this thread woul be impossible without mentioning Government to a degree as it is them that has the most influence it seems. I have actually been quite surprised that this thread has stirred no ill will and insults have been kept to a minimum reflecting the quality of those involved. There is allot of good education here guys!

The political crap we agree to avoid is the back and forth banter between parties as it has no place here nor does President bashing and finger pointing at each other by folks all riding the same darn bus :arrowheadsmiley:

Mining as a hobby or business requires contact with the BLM or other governing agencies from time to time and this means those subjects will be adressed here also. I will leave this thread for those reasons and again thank our members that so skillfully stay out of the petty insult slinging and get to the point! I think some slight tension is to be expected discussing a subject that holds roots in both logic and emotion :tisk-tisk:

Good hunting, Bill

Link to post
Share on other sites
Hi All,

I think this thread woul be impossible without mentioning Government to a degree as it is them that has the most influence it seems. I have actually been quite surprised that this thread has stirred no ill will and insults have been kept to a minimum reflecting the quality of those involved. There is allot of good education here guys!

The political crap we agree to avoid is the back and forth banter between parties as it has no place here nor does President bashing and finger pointing at each other by folks all riding the same darn bus :arrowheadsmiley:

Mining as a hobby or business requires contact with the BLM or other governing agencies from time to time and this means those subjects will be adressed here also. I will leave this thread for those reasons and again thank our members that so skillfully stay out of the petty insult slinging and get to the point! I think some slight tension is to be expected discussing a subject that holds roots in both logic and emotion :tisk-tisk:

Good hunting, Bill

Bill:

You are so right about government. We all need to keep in mind that the U. S. government is a Republic, and they represent us. If there is a law or administrative procedure that cannot be worked with, it is up to us to change it through our representatives...local, state or federal. Those that aren't involved in this process will be left out.

I am of the opinion that many of the "problems" that are hot topics are nothing more than people caught sleeping on their rights.

Astrobleme

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 3 weeks later...
Guest joebody
Here in AZ there is a ghost town (stockton) that is surrounded by private land and there is no way to get to it.

I have called and gone to talk to BLM in person and all I get is that the private land owners can close the roads off. So as tax payers we have public land that has no access and there seems nothing we can do about it. :WOW: . To me this sucks, but what can you do.

Here in AZ there is a ghost town (stockton) that is surrounded by private land and there is no way to get to it.

I have called and gone to talk to BLM in person and all I get is that the private land owners can close the roads off. So as tax payers we have public land that has no access and there seems nothing we can do about it. :WOW: . To me this sucks, but what can you do.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 8 months later...

I can understand the points being brought up by land owners, but I have to disagree in some aspects. If public land is being landlocked then I believe full access should be open to all via a road. Access should not be inhibited because of the actions of just a few. That would be as stupid as saying that all access through cities need to be blocked from outsiders all because a few commit crimes and litter when they come in to the city!

I also agree with the other poster who said that public lands with no access is worthless. And I wonder how these land owners would feel if I bought up all the land around their land denying their access to their own property. Or if I had to fly a plane or helicopter right over their house everyday to get in and out of landlocked property that was either public or I owned?

As for their claim that they have the right to defend land they own, look at what happened to the original owners. They were killed or put on reservations, and their land stolen with illegal contracts (treaties). The white man came here and just took what they wanted with no regard for legal ownership. They also tried to push their laws on the Indians, who they apparently saw as the legal owners of the land. The problem is that they were also using European cultural values, instead of learning the customs of the Indians, or the Washitaw that were here before the Indians. In Washitaw and Indian culture land ownership passes from mother to daughter, not father to son. In other words, the Chiefs who signed the treaties did not own the land to sign away title to. Since title of property cannot be transferred by someone with no title to the property in the first place, the treaties were invalid. Nor are contracts enforceable when someone can be considered incapacitated. For instance when the white man got the Chiefs drunk before signing the treaties. So in either case, the US never legally obtained any of the land. So technically we don't own the land. Of course this would never be enforced since the US is never going to give up all of the land they literally stole. Although, the Washitaw descendants have taken the US to court on this basis and have so far been awarded 60,000 acres back of the illegally taken land in what is referred to now as Louisiana. Again, this is not worth really debating since nothing is really going to change. Just an interesting historical observation.

Speaking of Louisiana though, I wonder how many people here are actually aware of what the Louisiana Purchase really bought? The Louisiana Purchase did not purchase any land. It was actually the purchase of a military barrack, and the right away to the rivers and roads through the land. I find it interesting though that the US took what they wanted through theft and murder though, then tried to make the whole thing look legitimate with illegal contracts. That's our government for ya!

One other thing I find interesting is that BLM has also denied access even when access is readily available. As an example, not too long ago I was looking for rocks in an old desert lot in Las Vegas. I was born and raised here and I recall people riding their dirt bikes all through the area when I was kid. The lot still has not been developed, even though everything around it for miles has. So I decided to look in the area for rocks. So I parked my truck at the Home Depot across the street, walked over to the lot and stepped off the sidewalk on to the land, and started looking around. There were no "No Trespassing" signs anywhere, and no fences. About 10 minutes later 2 motorcycle cops came down on dirt bikes and told me I was trespassing because the land belonged to BLM! What happened to BLM land being public? But the police here are a bunch of nutjobs that you don't want to argue with. Working in the medical field I have seen too many people brought in to the hospital that were taken out in to the desert and beaten bloody by these whackos. So I left. I wonder how long before we cannot go beyond our own house. As another example, look at how hard it is to get beach access in many parts of California. There are a lot of areas I would love to scuba dive at, but I do not feel like hiking a mile down the beach with my heavy gear to get to these sites. If there was a stairway offering a beach access then I would not have to do this. But the house owners seem to feel that they are somehow privileged, and only they should have access to the beaches. I’m sorry, but that is total b*******!!! Furthermore, the general population should not be punished for a few morons who cannot respect the land. I personally am very respecting of the land. I haul out what I haul in, and I even try to pick up other people’s trash when I am out hiking, or even in the streets around my house. Blocking people’s access is not the answer. Getting people to teach their children to respect others is part of a solution. Or maybe people should stop having so many kids. Another part of the solution is enforcing laws. The law does not state that an officer is the only one that can make an arrest. Any citizen can make an arrest. In this state the arrest can be made by any person if the crime is a misdemeanor and committed in their presence. If the crime is a felony then the arrest can be made by anyone, at any place, and any time even if the crime was not committed in their presence. The arresting individual has the right to use reasonable measures to detain that person until law enforcement shows up. And the responding officer must take the arrested individual in to custody, or the officer can also be arrested, and by law must be removed from his job. So if someone is discharging a firearm illegally you can make the arrest. Just bring your gun with you to detain them. If they are breaking your fence then arrest them for vandalism and destruction of private property. And don’t forget that you can also go after them civilly to recover financial damages, including attorney fees. But don’t try using the law to block access to land that we all own, and have the right to visit!

In fact, as far as I am concerned any public landlocked land should have a strip of that land taken by Eminent Domain to allow public access to these lands. After all, that is the purpose of Eminent domain, to take land from private ownership if it can offer more value to public interests rather than private interests. In these cases that definitely fits.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The BLM does not own any land.

The land belongs to the public,and

the BLM is just there to manage it.

There should not be no trespassing

signs on BLM land,unless it is a BLM

storage,or parking area for vehicles,

or supplies.

The BLM and other government

agencies have access to all so

called land locked parcels. Sometimes

for valid reasons ,they don't want

the public there. Yeah I hate to admit

it,but once in a while they really do

have a real reason. :grrr01:

Link to post
Share on other sites

Darn, you have convinced me to give my land back to the Indians. OH no, wait a minute there were never any Indians living on or near this land, seems like all they did was pass through nearby once in a while. Guess I will just have to keep it and keep out those that cannot respect it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hveragerthi, it was about a year ago when this thread was started, but it will become of interest anytime someone can not get to public land. I learned a lot from the people who participated in this thread. It is a fact that there are landlocked tracts of public land. I think everyone agrees that public land should have access. I think everyone also agrees that people who own land have a right to deny the public access.

The big problem is that there was no overall plan when these situations came to be. They are a result of various city, county, state and national government agencies failing to coordinate their activities. In fact, much of the private land was granted before there was a national agency (BLM) and in some cases before there were cities and counties. Mining districts pre-dated almost every other agency in mineralized areas.

Another problem, of course, is people. Some lack respect, and there are enough of them out there to make posting private land the sensible thing to do. It is sad that these landlocked tracts exist, but knowing how they came about and knowing what it would take to try and get them opened makes it easy to focus on where you CAN go and not on where you can't get to.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 4 years later...

We live in a sub-division that has a BLM parcel next to it. Access to it from any main road is quite a distance. Only because of the Private sub-division roads is this parcel even remotely accessible.

It is a Private sub-division, single entrance, we pay about $500.00 per year to maintain our own roads, lake and common areas. Our Private sub-division has and is still being trespassed on by non-residents gaining access to this BLM parcel, using our lake to fish out our bass and leave trash all over our common area. I even saw a guy on a quad, with classifier screen on his back, riding down the center of our roads on his way out of our sub-division. I've paid a lot of money and time to live where I live and even though I travel up and down the canyons around here, wish our Private sub-division would remain that, Private. The association has fought very hard, and spent a tremendous amount of legal fees to keep our private roads and access for residents only.

I'm with El on this. If it is Private, stay the hell out! If it not private, go for it. Want this to change, hire a lawyer.

I've met some detectorist down on the BLM parcel who parked on our roads to access this area and they don't have any qualms about being there. I guess they don't consider Private, Private.

Link to post
Share on other sites

In case ya haven't noticed, this particular thread was started in June of 2006. Bill kindly moved it over to this new section when I bumped it up with a new post the other day.

In this old thread, I and others learned how these parcels of land became land locked and were then inherited by a newly created BLM to manage. The only legal way into some of these parcels is by obtaining permission to cross private land or to come in by chopper.

Accessing OTHER public land is, and has been, a real and ongoing issue. That is, government agencies are closing public roads and coming up with all kinds of bogus reasons why the public should not be allowed on them. Granted, some people abuse our public lands by littering, dumping and damaging public property but this is no excuse to close them. The access issue is one that should be of equal concern to everyone including miners, prospectors, hunters, fishermen, hikers, bikers, ATV'ers, rock collectors and even bird watchers and tree huggers. The government must not be allowed to punish us all for the actions of a few.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 months later...

I am having the same issue with access to my claim on BLM land. For many years you could take Goferbroke Rd North of Georgetown California all the way North to Canyon Creek. Now someone has erected a locked gate across the road. There are houses beyond this gate. I spoke to the fire dept and they told me these houses will burn to the ground if there is a fire, that they have so many problems with gates in El Dorado County that they are not allowed to access the gates.

The Sheriff dept referred me to the Dept of Transportation. Have a call in to them.

Any suggestions? Has anyone had success with legal battles in these situations?

Link to post
Share on other sites

WOW, hard to believe that this thread started out 6 years ago and has come alive again...... my gate is still up! Where I live now, much of the lower part of the Divide is State Recreation Land... what a joke because almost each and every access point is gated with locks. Gates provided by the State and paid for by the public...go figure

Link to post
Share on other sites

If I had my way, it would be illegal for the federal government to own more than 50% of the land in a state, and the surplus federal land would be handed back to the private sector for pennies on the dollar. Talk about a shot in the arm as far as the economy is concerned.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I once got the State Police to cut the lock off a BLM gate!

The Rancher kept locking it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.


×
×
  • Create New...