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Hmmm…COVID vaccine??? (Not political)


middleforkminer2

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I went ahead and got the booster this morning after my run-in with a diminutive mountain lion, and got to thinking…might the vaccine actually be responsible for facilitating the rapid spread we’ve been seeing this year??? 
 My understanding is that the vaccines don’t prevent infection, they only help to mitigate the symptoms….and a large number of vaccinated people that contract the virus actually don’t develop symptoms but are infectious at the same time…so instead of self quarantine they’re out and about without a clue…thoughts???3EEAEEAF-C8F8-43CF-BC25-2EC40F5BDB8F.jpeg

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You are spot on. The vaccines work exactly as advertised. And that means some asymptomatic and infectious people in that group.

Of course vaccinated people are less likely to transmit the virus than unvaccinated. And unvaccinated are more likely to be asymptomatic and contagious. Leastwise that is how I understand it to be.

I know darn well you are more likely to get seriously ill and die unvaccinated. That's the only statistic that really matters to me at this point. I'm no more likely to transmit it to an unvaccinated person than some unvaccinated virus denier without a mask that won't maintain his distance is to give it to me. So I don't really feel too guilty for getting vaccinated.

There is no one factor that is responsible for the spike. But unvaccinated people and behavior are no doubt the largest controllable factors in that equation.

Getting vaccinated and wearing a mask when in public are the two best ways to protect yourself and prevent spreading it. And just because you are vaccinated does not mean you cant get it or spread it. It just means you are much less likely to get a serious symptomatic illness as well as be contagious.

....at least with the variant we are dealing with today. Tomorrow may be a whole different ball game.

The vaccinated are spreading it. Just not at nearly the rate as unvaccinated people. Im not sure they are more likely to unknowingly spread it. But there is no doubt it happens every day.

I think we are in for a rude awakening with this virus. This is a real natural disaster. Before it is over it is going to kill many more people and take the health of millions. If we (all) don't start taking it seriously we are just going to (collectively) suffer more. 

My booster was pretty rough. I hope you have an easy time with it. It wasn't as bad as the second shot. But it was pretty awful for 6-8 hours.

Im glad I did it though. I'd shoot one, smoke one and snort another one to keep from choking with viral pneumonia. 

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The first two didn’t bother me much other than a little tenderness if I rubbed it… today was a little different… the area I got poked actually ached and is still pretty sore…I also felt feverish like I was coming down with the flu…. I feel a lot better tonight…

 7-8 years ago I came down with pneumonia and like you, I got no desire to go toes up with a viral pneumonia if I can do anything to prevent it….

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Getting vaccinated for a virus that is clearly going to sweep the population is a no brainer for me. I'm MUCH more likely to survive the next 5 years in reasonably good heath with the vaccine than without. 

I think we are all going to have to deal with the virus sooner or later. Many of us repeatedly. Im going to use every tool at my disposal to make that fight as easy as I can.

 

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15 minutes ago, Bedrock Bob said:

Getting vaccinated for a virus that is clearly going to sweep the population is a no brainer for me. I'm MUCH more likely to survive the next 5 years in reasonably good heath with the vaccine than without. 

 

Yep… it’s here to stay.

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It's pretty obvious that covid is here to stay, with countless variants coming. It has spread to all kinds of animals. How the heck did deer get it??
Hopefully the science that says it gets less lethal as time goes on is correct. The Omicron variant might be a blessing.  
My reaction to the booster was worse than either of the 1st 2 shots but it wasn't that big of a deal. I'm hoping the use of therapeutics will make vaccinations unnecessary. 

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Interestingly the most vaccinated populations are now also the populations with the highest infection rates. Better testing (no PCR!) and time may explain why that is.

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I personally know of various people that developed blood clots and or serious illness after being vaxed.

One is practically an invalid at this point when she was a normal individual beforehand.

I'm not a fan.

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I am no anti vaxxer, but this one has me concerned. I am not one to jump onto a new vaccine that has not been clinically tested for the required   years as it should be especially those that are genetically modified. My brother had the 2 shots, he was a healthy 53 year old, watched what he ate, and regularly exercised. After a week of getting the jab, he experience lack of oxygen, he went to the doctors and they are doing tests, possible micro clots in the  lungs.  My cousin had the 2 shots because her doctor boyfriend recommended it, well she got covid from her daughter who is a airplane stewardess. Her daughter had no symptoms but my vaccinated cousin felt miserable  for 10 days. But I am all for freedom to choose...take it if you want, but you will still get it and you will spread it. I know at least 4 people who had the jab and got covid again. Again to each his/her own...and its your health..

One thing I forgot, my own son 20 years of age got covid from work, he was quarantined at home for 10 days. None of us got it from him even though we interacted with him as if nothing happened, we shared the house as we always do doing our everyday choirs and business.  He was tired, had a sore throat and some body aches. After about 10 days he was fine...his natural immunity now is much stronger. 

Those with compromised immune systems, and other health conditions should take the advice of their doctor.  

Edited by Relichunter2016
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2 hours ago, Relichunter2016 said:

I am no anti vaxxer, but this one has me concerned. I am not one to jump onto a new vaccine that has not been clinically tested for the required   years as it should be especially those that are genetically modified

I do find this troublesome.  I remember getting the Anthrax shot at least 12 times, and while getting I was told there has never been a reaction to it.  Others who went through the line said they had a reaction before.  Now I read different things about reactions like 30%, 85%, 16000 or 20000.  

 

3 hours ago, frank c said:

I personally know of various people that developed blood clots and or serious illness after being vaxed.

I have people who one day tell me about people they know who have reactions to the COVID shot and next day tell me there are no reactions to this.

 

Despite all this, I have both COVID shots and the booster.  Probably will get it every six months.  Other countries, like Austria, are recommending the booster every four months.

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15 hours ago, Dakota Slim said:


Hopefully the science that says it gets less lethal as time goes on is correct. The Omicron variant might be a blessing.  
 

That is an astute observation Slim. 

History shows that viruses often get less lethal as they mutate. And humans develop defenses. Sooner or later we meet in the middle.

How long that may take is the question. 

Also there is always the possibility that some mutation of this virus gets much more lethal. And /or more transmissible. 

We can't really control the virus or its evolution. All we can control is our reaction to it. We ride this horse until he quits bucking. Or we get bucked off. 

The vaccine is no doubt some wicked sh!t. But it has been given to hundreds of millions of people for over a year now. We clearly see the short term risks. We know what to expect from the vaccine. 

We also know what the virus can do. For every story of the vaccine having serious side effects I can tell you ten about the virus killing someone. And a hundred about serious permanent health problems.

I have not heard of anyone in my community having a reaction to the vaccine. I know several who have had serious illness and three who have died. Dozens who have been bad sick for two weeks. Not one of them has been vaccinated.

One fellow has had it twice in the past 18 months. He hasn't gone to the hospital but he gets extremely sick for two weeks and coughs his guts out. His wife is on her second go round too. His kids have not had it yet but they are constantly exposed to active cases and must stay quarantined all the time. The family is sick and miserable. But they still won't get vaccinated. 

So my personal experience is that in most cases a vaccination is a good thing. I dont have one horror story about vaccines. But I have plenty about this virus.

Let's hope this omicron devil just makes us sneeze and gives us a lasting antibody. And let's hope the new therapies they are developing work great on all sorts of airborne pathogens. They look promising. Until then I'm modifying my social interaction, wearing that mask properly when im around people and staying fully vaccinated. 

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3 hours ago, frank c said:

I personally know of various people that developed blood clots and or serious illness after being vaxed.

One is practically an invalid at this point when she was a normal individual beforehand.

I'm not a fan.

Here’s a link that does a pretty good job of explaining the mRNA technology and its history https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2021/the-long-history-of-mrna-vaccines

no idea how blood clots might form… but I’m not saying it can’t happen… what I’d like to see studied by the CDC or some other health institution is the degree of transmissibility between someone who is presenting symptoms and someone who isn’t…

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MRNA is not a vaccine. Vaccines provide immunity from their target disease. MRNA has an immune response but it has never been known to provide immunity to any disease.

MRNA has been well known to cause side effects and lose effectiveness rather quickly. That's just part of the reason MRNA has never been approved for public distribution in the 30 + years since it was created.

Until COVID MRNA was generally considered to be one of many unsuccessful attempts to create various cancer treatments. None of those have ever succeeded because of the well documented side effects and the fact that effectiveness is very short term.

I do know people who have died from the side effects of the MRNA injection. It's probably not the best forum to discuss these things but there are good reasons the first responders and nurses are among the most resistant groups to accepting the "vaccine".

As with most things in life every person has to make their own decisions about their medical procedures. I'm not nearly smart enough to tell someone they have made the wrong decision or even to question why they made a particular decision. It's nice that people are willing to share their thoughts here.

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6 hours ago, clay said:

Interestingly the most vaccinated populations are now also the populations with the highest infection rates. Better testing (no PCR!) and time may explain why that is.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/12/05/1059828993/data-vaccine-misinformation-trump-counties-covid-death-rate

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10 minutes ago, Morlock said:

Typed up a response to this that would change no-one’s mind.  For those who did not read the NPR article shows that counties with the highest % of voting for trump have the highest percentage of mortality.

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4 minutes ago, Morlock said:

I seriously doubt any virus selects it's hosts by their voting habits. :rolleyes: Trying to prove Trump voters (Republicans) are stupid and die from their stupidity is really not journalism in my book.

What I wrote isn't misinformation it's verifiable fact.

Since you seem to rely on NPR for your information try this link:

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/08/20/1029628471/highly-vaccinated-israel-is-seeing-a-dramatic-surge-in-new-covid-cases-heres-why

Quote

Israel was the first country on Earth to fully vaccinate a majority of its citizens against COVID-19. Now it has one of the world's highest daily infection rates — an average of nearly 7,500 confirmed cases a day, double what it was two weeks ago. Nearly one in every 150 people in Israel today has the virus.

There are many other examples should you care to look outside the political perspective.

I've been thinking of making a map to illustrate this fact but as I said this isn't probably the best place to delve into this subject.

Looking on the internet news groups for facts instead of perspectives and opinions is at least as difficult as prospecting for gold in my experience. At least with prospecting you end up with gold in your hand.

Thanks for sharing what you found.

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2 hours ago, Morlock said:

 

2 hours ago, chrisski said:

Typed up a response to this that would change no-one’s mind.  For those who did not read the NPR article shows that counties with the highest % of voting for trump have the highest percentage of mortality.

 

2 hours ago, clay said:

I seriously doubt any virus selects it's hosts by their voting habits. :rolleyes: Trying to prove Trump voters (Republicans) are stupid and die from their stupidity is really not journalism in my book.

What I wrote isn't misinformation it's verifiable fact.

Since you seem to rely on NPR for your information try this link:

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/08/20/1029628471/highly-vaccinated-israel-is-seeing-a-dramatic-surge-in-new-covid-cases-heres-why

There are many other examples should you care to look outside the political perspective.

I've been thinking of making a map to illustrate this fact but as I said this isn't probably the best place to delve into this subject.

Looking on the internet news groups for facts instead of perspectives and opinions is at least as difficult as prospecting for gold in my experience. At least with prospecting you end up with gold in your hand.

Thanks for sharing what you found.

The only other vaccine topic on the forum was 'Locked" because it became political, this topic in it's title said it wasn't a political topic, let's keep it that way, any other replies that links to or mentions politics or politicians will be deleted!  

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23 hours ago, Dakota Slim said:

It's pretty obvious that covid is here to stay, with countless variants coming. It has spread to all kinds of animals. How the heck did deer get it??

Maybe they’re really PEOPLE who just identify as deer….

 

 

sorry, I could resist no longer

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Sorry, don’t know how to link, but there are two recent studies conducted by the New England Journal of Medicine that show an insignificant difference between those that received vaccinations or placebos in Pfizer and Moderna trials.  

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5 minutes ago, OferAZ said:

Sorry, don’t know how to link, but there are two recent studies conducted by the New England Journal of Medicine that show an insignificant difference between those that received vaccinations or placebos in Pfizer and Moderna trials.  

An insignificant difference in what aspect??? Becoming infected (which I can believe) or transmissibility to others once you ARE infected???

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In the local Walmart here in Sonora, I’d say a good 95% of both the shoppers and staff are maskless and I haven’t worn one in at least 7 months.  We’re a pretty rural county and our case rate has been at or near the bottom percentage of infected statewide throughout this whole pandemic…

 One thing I HAVE been doing though is sanitizing my hands before getting back in my pickup as well as keeping them away from my face while in the store…then again, that’s something I’ve been doing every cold and flu season…I suppose I’d mask up if I had a cough or other symptoms…

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Here is an interesting article. Beyond sanitizing hands, etc. One should probably be aware of the people close to them. Obviously if someone is coughing you should  distance yourself but...

"The volume of your voice is an indicator of how much energy you're putting into your voice box. That energy translates to more particles coming out of your body. These are particles that carry the COVID-19 virus and infect other people," Volckens said.

"

CBS News

Study shows men spread COVID particles more than women and children

CBSNews
·3 min read
 
 

Fort Collins, Colorado – A study focused on tracking the spread of COVID-19 in performing arts settings has also unveiled the population of humans who spread the most COVID-19 particles. Researchers at Colorado State University learned that men more frequently spread the coronavirus particles than women or children.

The study, which lasted months, was originally developed in an effort to see what those in the performing arts can do to facilitate a safe return to the stage following the pandemic. The performing arts, from the educational level all the way to Broadway performances, were some of the most drastically impacted fields.

Theaters, concert venues and more were completely shut down for more than a year.

"COVID shut the performing arts down almost overnight," said Dan Goble, director of CSU's School of Music, Theater and Dance. "It wasn't just a CSU problem, this was a national problem. Think about all the public-school bands, choirs and orchestras."

Goble wanted to research the correlation between the spread of COVID-19 and the performing arts. Fortunately, CSU had qualified researchers and resources already on campus to do the study in-house. Goble partnered with John Volckens, a professor in the Department of Mechanical Engineering, to conduct the study.

More than 75 different people participated in the study which largely took place in a chamber used for testing particles in the air. Participants were of different ages and skillsets. Some were asked to sing songs like "Happy Birthday" repetitively. Others were asked to perform songs on instruments.

"Singing definitely emits more particles than talking," Volckens told CBS Denver's Dillon Thomas.

While the study, entitled "Reducing Bioaerosol Emission and Exposures in the Performing Arts: A Scientific Roadmap for a Safe Return from COVID-19," was intended to focus on the spread of coronavirus in performing arts venues, it also unveiled a larger set of information when it comes to the virus as a whole.

"Adults tend to emit more particles than children," Volckens said. "The reason men tend to emit more particles is because we have bigger lungs."

Volckens said the virus also spreads more easily among those who speak at louder volumes.

"The volume of your voice is an indicator of how much energy you're putting into your voice box. That energy translates to more particles coming out of your body. These are particles that carry the COVID-19 virus and infect other people," Volckens said.

https://news.yahoo.com/study-shows-men-spread-covid-004724896.html

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