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Best meteor shower of 2021 Weds. Night 8/11/21


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"The night of Wednesday, Aug. 11, into the early morning hours of Thursday, Aug. 12, is the peak of the popular Perseid meteor shower. It is often touted as the best annual meteor shower, in part due to the weather."

https://www.msn.com/en-us/weather/topstories/best-meteor-shower-of-2021-on-the-horizon/ar-AAN1GsP

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Probably a fat chance we will get to see any night sky at all if we keep getting the enormous amount of California's stinking horrendous air pollution like we have been.   Can't even be outside it is so bad at times.  Every frickin year during the summer months we get inundated by CA's pollution!  :<(

There, just had to unload that.  

Thanks for the heads up on the upcoming meteor shower.  In the years past, when I could watch at night, I have seen some spectacular meteors.  Lots of fun.  

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Its time for another Barbeque by Meteorite. I've found a spot at the Four Peaks parking lot six tenths of a mile up the hill from the Beeline highway where I expect the meteor landing spot will start the barbeque. All are welcome to join me Wednesday night.  Last week I saw my 20,900th meteor and expect to add several hundred more Wednesday night weather permitting. Last week I saw seven main belt asteroids just with my 20x60 binocs.  I have seen about 30 asteroids just with my binocs this year alone along with two other nova two weeks ago. I will see this week's new nova naked eye in Ophiuchus.  

Keep looking up!

billpeters

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Bill I will most likely be in the opposite side of the valley closer to the white tanks mountains.

When do you expect this to be visible?  I was out at sunset four days before it peaked but didn’t see any.  I thought they were not supposed to be visible except after midnight until sunrise. Although not a peak day four days before there were supposed to be some.

Honestly couldn’t find the Perseus constellation in the sky/

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Chrisski,

The Perseid radiant is easy to find in the sky by first locating the big "W" of Cassiopeia and looking directly below the last star of the "W".  The Perseid radiant rises about 10:30~ p.m. and no Perseid meteors can be seen before 10:00 p.m. as the radiant must be above the horizon or very close to being above the horizon for Earth skimmers to be seen since all meteors travel in straight lines and cannot go around the Earth, just like bugs cannot hit the back window of a car.  The front of the Earth is sunrise and the back of the Earth is sunset with about local midnight being the side of the Earth. Luckily, the Perseid radiant is far enough north to be above the horizon a couple of hours earlier. I saw three Perseids around midnight early last Tuesday, August 3rd while I was scoping out seven +8.4 to +10.9 magnitude asteroids with my binocs. The key to seeing the most meteors is to lie back on a lounge chair looking up to see the zenith and facing east northeast with a good drink by your side. 

Unfortunately the Barbeque by Meteorite is cancelled because of the fire danger.

Let us know how the observing goes,

billpeters

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16 hours ago, DarkSilicate said:

Well, the smoke in the air here in western CO is pretty bad today.  Worse than it has been.  Just in time to keep the view obscured, as usual.  Isn't it interesting how they are blaming the fires in CA on the sun.   : (

I just posted about a CA arsonist who got busted for starting multiple wildfires. Check it out in the Active Fire Map thread. 

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2 hours ago, DarkSilicate said:

So they are saying fires just start spontaneously? From the heat of the sun?

:rolleyes:

The guy that wrote that probably thinks meteorites cause fires too.

I don't think anyone with any common sense is "blaming" the wildfires on the sun. The article is obviously a poor source for factual information. 

I just dont think "blaming the sun" is a thing. And if it is it's one of those fake news things.

Humans cause 85% of wildfires. Most are accidental or negligent. Some are arson. Many are caused by power lines.

About 15% of all fires are natural. The overwhelming majority of them are caused by lightning. 

Sometimes lightning strikes a power line. Man meets nature half way.

But I have never heard of a fire caused by the heat of the sun. If that has been the suspected cause of any fire it had to have been the result of a lens or a focused reflection. Sunlight just does not get hot enough to start a fire under natural conditions. 

:old:

If anyone has knowledge of a fire that has been started from the heat of sunlight I would love to see a reference to it. I honestly dont think you can find one.

Sunlight can heat and dry material until it is explosive for sure. But it needs some type of ignition in excess of 400 degrees to initiate combustion. Lightning, viveash, static spark, lava, coal and swamp gas would be the only natural ignition sources I could imagine.

Even natural gas and coal needs an ignition source hotter than the most intense rays of the sun.

:idunno:

Edited by Bedrock Bob
This post was edited to arouse suspicion.
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1 hour ago, DarkSilicate said:

 

1 hour ago, Bedrock Bob said:

So they are saying fires just start spontaneously? From the heat of the sun?

:rolleyes:

The guy that wrote that probably thinks meteorites cause fires too.

I don't think anyone with any common sense is "blaming" the wildfires on the sun. The article is obviously a poor source for factual information. 

I just dont think "blaming the sun" is a thing. And if it is it's one of those fake news things.

Humans cause 85% of wildfires. Most are accidental or negligent. Some are arson. Many are caused by power lines.

About 15% of all fires are natural. The overwhelming majority of them are caused by lightning. 

I have never heard of a fire caused by the heat of the sun. If that has been the suspected cause of any fire it had to have been the result of a lens or a focused reflection. Sunlight just does not get hot enough to start a fire under natural conditions. 

:old:

If anyone has knowledge of a fire that has been started from the heat of sunlight I would love to see a reference to it. I honestly dont think you can find one.

Sunlight can heat and dry material until it is explosive for sure. But it needs some type of ignition in excess of 400 degrees to initiate combustion. Lightning, viveash, static spark, lava and swamp gas would be the only natural ignition sources I could imagine.

Even natural gas and coal needs an ignition source hotter than the most intense rays of the sun.

:idunno:

I think the guy who wrote that article is saying that their "The US Sun" news reporting is so hot it started the fires!! :brows:

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4 minutes ago, Au Seeker said:

 

I think the guy who wrote that article is saying that their "The US Sun" news reporting is so hot it started the fires!! :brows:

I was trying to work that into my post but decided not to. I opted for the "fake news" reference instead. 

Thanks Skip! Someone needed to do it!

There is a lot of stuff coming out of the "Sun". Most of it is pants on fire. So the "Sun" is definitely a better ignition source than an information source.

:)

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2 hours ago, Bedrock Bob said:

If anyone has knowledge of a fire that has been started from the heat of sunlight I would love to see a reference to it. I honestly dont think you can find one.

 

Not from the heat, per se, but I have heard of rare instances of wildfire sparking up where there are lots of crystals on the ground, and one of them happens to get hit just right and acts like a magnifying glass and lights the dry brush on fire. 

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22 hours ago, billpeters said:

Unfortunately the Barbeque by Meteorite is cancelled because of the fire danger.

Let us know how the observing goes,

Looks like its one of our rare cloudy AZ nights, and I won’t be going out tonight.  I wish I’d made more of an effort to catch some four days ago WhenI was in the grad canyon.  The conditions were perfect, I just slept through the night.

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1 hour ago, Mikestang said:

Not from the heat, per se, but I have heard of rare instances of wildfire sparking up where there are lots of crystals on the ground, and one of them happens to get hit just right and acts like a magnifying glass and lights the dry brush on fire. 

Call me a skeptic. I can see how it might be possible. No doubt that flame may burn in the minds eye.

If someone told me it actually happened I probably wouldn't believe them. If they told me it was a regular occurrence I wouldn't need to. I would simply offer to sell them my latest exploding Martian sandstone specimen.

In areas with a lot of crystals with the shape and clarity sufficient to focus sunlight the crystal hunters would be much more likely to cause fires than the crystals themselves. But I suppose it would not be beyond the realm of possibility.

I could visualize a big pallasite hitting an outcrop of quartz and causing a spark that ignited a fire. So if the sun starts fires then so do meteorites. 

:)

Edited by Bedrock Bob
This post was edited to cause maximum frustration..
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Maybe it was only one occurrence, I recall reading about it years ago but can't remember if it said it was just the one, or something that happened very rarely.  A quick search didn't reveal anything, but did find a couple hits that are tangentially related:

Clapham house fire caused by crystal doorknob - BBC News

Lincoln County fire sparked by sun rays shining through broken glass (and other unusual fire starts) | The Spokesman-Review

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1 hour ago, Mikestang said:

Not from the heat, per se, but I have heard of rare instances of wildfire sparking up where there are lots of crystals on the ground, and one of them happens to get hit just right and acts like a magnifying glass and lights the dry brush on fire. 

Or broken glass.

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Back when I was young and dinosaurs ruled the earth my mother had a cluster of glass grapes. They sat on the table for decoration. 

One afternoon the house filled with smoke and my dad blamed me. He was fixing to blister my butt with his belt when my mom came out of the house with those glass grapes and a charred doilie that it sat on. 

They were really popular decorations back then. Lots of homes sported a cluster of grapes.

My father was an insurance adjuster and private investigator. He did some research and found out a lot of fires were caused by those glass grapes. At one point several companies refused to cover fire caused by them.

So I guess sunlight focused through glass might start a wildfire. There is tons of glass out there with grass growing up in it.

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10 minutes ago, Bedrock Bob said:

Back when I was young and dinosaurs ruled the earth my mother had a cluster of glass grapes. They sat on the table for decoration. 

One afternoon the house filled with smoke and my dad blamed me. He was fixing to blister my butt with his belt when my mom came out of the house with those glass grapes and a charred doilie that it sat on. 

They were really popular decorations back then. Lots of homes sported a cluster of grapes.

My father was an insurance adjuster and private investigator. He did some research and found out a lot of fires were caused by those glass grapes. At one point several companies refused to cover fire caused by them.

So I guess sunlight focused through glass might start a wildfire. There is tons of glass out there with grass growing up in it.

I remember those, they shoulda called them “Grape Balls of Fire” :4chsmu1:
Remember that toy clicker thing made with string and two clear plastic balls on each end that was so popular with kids? They supposedly started fires that way also.

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 "Spontaneous combustion has also been known to cause wildfires. Usually these are from wet haystacks or compost piles that heat the hay or vegetation while drying out. Hay can ignite if the internal core reaches as little as 130 degrees F. At that temperature, it begins to off-gas a flammable vapor that can easily ignite and spread to nearby surroundings"

Or leaves . . .Spontaneous combustion can occur when a substance with a relatively low ignition temperature (hay, straw, peat, etc.) begins to release heat. ... Combustion begins if sufficient oxidizer, such as oxygen, and fuel are present to maintain the reaction into thermal runaway.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0379711217301509#:~:text=Self-ignition of natural fuels%3A Can wildfires of carbon-rich soil start by self-heating%3F 

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With the smoke and all, I watched for a while early in the evening and then went out again a little after two in the morning for a bit.  All total, got to see three fast moving, short lived, bright white streaks.  Some is better than none. : )

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13 hours ago, GotAU? said:

I remember those, they shoulda called them “Grape Balls of Fire” :4chsmu1:
Remember that toy clicker thing made with string and two clear plastic balls on each end that was so popular with kids? They supposedly started fires that way also.

Yeah, the "click clacks" would cause fires as well as explode if you clacked them too hard. 

As soon as the string broke on those things we would shoot them with the .22. They would detonate into a bazillion pieces. It's a wonder someone didn't lose an eye.

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11 hours ago, BMc said:

 "Spontaneous combustion has also been known to cause wildfires. Usually these are from wet haystacks or compost piles that heat the hay or vegetation while drying out. Hay can ignite if the internal core reaches as little as 130 degrees F. At that temperature, it begins to off-gas a flammable vapor that can easily ignite and spread to nearby surroundings"

Or leaves . . .Spontaneous combustion can occur when a substance with a relatively low ignition temperature (hay, straw, peat, etc.) begins to release heat. ... Combustion begins if sufficient oxidizer, such as oxygen, and fuel are present to maintain the reaction into thermal runaway.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0379711217301509#:~:text=Self-ignition of natural fuels%3A Can wildfires of carbon-rich soil start by self-heating%3F 

It pretty much requires an oxidizer. It does happen naturally in rare cases. 

The overwhelming majority of fires caused this way are a result of chemical reactions from human processes. 

No doubt the sun provides the ambient temps needed to start the chain reaction. But it is a chemical reaction and not the rays of the sun that cause the fire.

A smoldering pile of cottonseed with a chunk of ammonium nitrate fertilizer in it. A rag soaked in linseed oil laying on hot concrete. Things like that are very common cause of fires. But spontaneous combustion fires are as rare as hens teeth in the natural environment. 

Maybe in a swamp that dries out and leaves the perfect combination of saltpeter and microbe rich organics. But it is mighty uncommon. Probably as rare as sunlight concentrating through broken glass and starting a fire.

Edited by Bedrock Bob
This post was edited. I can hardly live with the shame.
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12 hours ago, BMc said:

 "Spontaneous combustion 

Doesn't  happen on meteors:4chsmu1:

Edited by Guest
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