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Greetings!  While I'm new to this forum I'm sure I'll be posting many questions lol.  My first is a bit of help with 4 specimens that don't seem to fit, here's the first...

I collected it on the northern shores of Lake Erie (pretty much all my shineys come from there lol) where I was told that it was basically a 'drop off' point from the last ice age, dragging all kinds of interesting things along for the ride.  I hope the pics are good enough and I also hope that I'm asking this in the right place lol.

Thanks!

(oh, I've also tumbled it to clean it up)

2.jpg

1.jpg

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I can’t definitively say what it is. 
Might be serpentine/serpentinite, glaucophane, maybe even jadeite. 
Do you know the hardness?

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, d_day said:

I can’t definitively say what it is. 
Might be serpentine/serpentinite, glaucophane, maybe even jadeite. 
Do you know the hardness?

No, sorry...is there a reliable way to do it without a kit?  I could test the specific gravity if that would help. 

Also, here's 2 of the other samples I have questions about (discovered in the same area at the same time) that have similar characteristics and colours.  I don't know much about geology so I hope they help lol...

Oh, and grossular garnet seems to be around the same area once in a while (all these specimins fall out of a 150 foot clay cliff along the lake)

3.jpg

4.jpg

Edited by Quigi
spelling mistake
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Just did a scrape test (on the back of a brown ceramic kitchen tile so I don't know if that counts) and it was white (colourless?) and it didn't really seem to scuff the mineral at all.

 

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3 hours ago, Quigi said:

Just did a scrape test (on the back of a brown ceramic kitchen tile so I don't know if that counts) and it was white (colourless?) and it didn't really seem to scuff the mineral at all.

 

Between that and your test with the knife we can rule out serpentine. Glaucophane is still a possibility, though I think jadeite is more likely. There are probably a few other possibilities. 
 

Keep in mind though that making a proper ID from photos is difficult under the best circumstances.

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4 minutes ago, d_day said:

Between that and your test with the knife we can rule out serpentine. Glaucophane is still a possibility, though I think jadeite is more likely. There are probably a few other possibilities. 
 

Keep in mind though that making a proper ID from photos is difficult under the best circumstances.

Thanks for your help :)  Is there any other tests I can do to help ID this?  Would a specific grav test help as I have the equipment to do it to a hundreth of a gram (maybe more as I'm not sure how many decimals it can do but it's a pretty good scale). 

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25 minutes ago, d_day said:

Specific gravity will always help, but I don’t ask for it because most people can’t do it.

Ok, if my measurements are right the specific grav is 2.81 +/- .1

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I retested for the gravity this morning with a better setup and came up with 2.71 after a few attempts so I'm sticking with that value lol.   I've also done a bit of research and I've come to wonder if the sample in my OP and the later one with the crystals are both a form of Narsarsukite?  I'm not 100% sure but the both fit the specs as far as variations of the minerals I've seen online go.

The gravity for the crystals is 2.65 with the same hardness as far as I've tested.  I tried to take a better pic of the crystals to show the colours and transparency.  Quartz also seems to fit the specs as well but none of the pictures lined up quite right.

graa.jpg

ssdfa.jpg

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17 hours ago, Quigi said:

Ok, if my measurements are right the specific grav is 2.81 +/- .1

That eliminates both glaucophane and jadeite. I really have no idea on this one.

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What you have is a rock. Rocks are composed of different minerals either in conglomerate or combination.

Rocks are defined by the minerals they are composed of but they are not susceptible to hardness or specific gravity testing as minerals are.

From the information and pictures you have provided my experience tells me the main components of your rock are probably members of the actinolite - tremolite series. Hardness 5-6 SG ~3.

Or not. :rolleyes:

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, clay said:

What you have is a rock. Rocks are composed of different minerals either in conglomerate or combination.

Rocks are defined by the minerals they are composed of but they are not susceptible to hardness or specific gravity testing as minerals are.

From the information and pictures you have provided my experience tells me the main components of your rock are probably members of the actinolite - tremolite series. Hardness 5-6 SG ~3.

Or not. :rolleyes:

I'm going with 'or not' lol. 

While I know that some agate and such will wash down from the higher lakes, many of the minerals that I collect by the lake come from the Canadian shield and further north.  I'm pretty sure (I may be remembering wrong) that 'they' say the last glaciers in North America advanced/retreated from a north easterly direction and would've dragged much material from there.  There's a sapphire mine north of Quebec and deposits of narsarsukite along the way here as well which kind of got me thinking about it a bit.

(I only know about the glaciers because of a spherical 10" ball of soap stone was dropped from the cliff for me one day so I emailed the Royal Ontario Musuem geology department for info with a pic...also the place is a treasure trove of fossils from around the beginning of the Permian Period)

Edited by Quigi
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50 minutes ago, Quigi said:

I'm going with 'or not' lol. 

While I know that some agate and such will wash down from the higher lakes, many of the minerals that I collect by the lake come from the Canadian shield and further north.  I'm pretty sure (I may be remembering wrong) that 'they' say the last glaciers in North America advanced/retreated from a north easterly direction and would've dragged much material from there.  There's a sapphire mine north of Quebec and deposits of narsarsukite along the way here as well which kind of got me thinking about it a bit.

(I only know about the glaciers because of a spherical 10" ball of soap stone was dropped from the cliff for me one day so I emailed the Royal Ontario Musuem geology department for info with a pic...also the place is a treasure trove of fossils from around the beginning of the Permian Period)

Yes most of the material you will find in that region was transported there with the movement of the ice shield. But not all the good material comes from ice movement there is some very rich and interesting local geology as well. The copper and iron deposits are well known but there are also quite a few gold and industrial mineral mines as well.

There are native Tremolite deposits also, Near Little Chicago in Wisconsin there is a Jade deposit known as Little Chicago Nephrite. The Jade from Little Chicago has been mined and sold commercially. Like the other Nephrite Jade deposits it is composed mainly of Tremolite. The Michigan Basin Deep Drill Hole north of Lansing discovered native Tremolite deposits in 1975. Ontario is full of native Tremolite occurrences particularly in  the Haliburton County / Kawartha Lakes region. Northern New York has several well known Tremolite deposits. Your soap stone ball is composed, in part, of Tremolite. Lake Erie is surrounded on three sides by native Tremolite deposts

This Actinolite - Tremolite mineral series forms the rocks that are commonly known as "asbestos", "nephrite jade" and "serpentine" as well as several others. They are an important part of the Amphibole group of minerals. The Canadian shield is rich in Amphibole minerals. I would honestly be surprised if you didn't occasionally find Tremolite based rocks on the north shore of Lake Erie.

Or not. :4chsmu1:

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10 minutes ago, clay said:

Yes most of the material you will find in that region was transported there with the movement of the ice shield. But not all the good material comes from ice movement there is some very rich and interesting local geology as well. The copper and iron deposits are well known but there are also quite a few gold and industrial mineral mines as well.

There are native Tremolite deposits also, Near Little Chicago in Wisconsin there is a Jade deposit known as Little Chicago Nephrite. The Jade from Little Chicago has been mined and sold commercially. Like the other Nephrite Jade deposits it is composed mainly of Tremolite. The Michigan Basin Deep Drill Hole north of Lansing discovered native Tremolite deposits in 1975. Ontario is full of native Tremolite occurrences particularly in  the Haliburton County / Kawartha Lakes region. Northern New York has several well known Tremolite deposits. Your soap stone ball is composed, in part, of Tremolite. Lake Erie is surrounded on three sides by native Tremolite deposts

This Actinolite - Tremolite mineral series forms the rocks that are commonly known as "asbestos", "nephrite jade" and "serpentine" as well as several others. They are an important part of the Amphibole group of minerals. The Canadian shield is rich in Amphibole minerals. I would honestly be surprised if you didn't occasionally find Tremolite based rocks on the north shore of Lake Erie.

Or not. :4chsmu1:

...love the 'or not's lmao.

That's pretty interesting info that you're throwing out there...I had no idea.  Do you think a gemologist would be able to ID the crystal formation(I know one locally)?  I just wonder if it'd be worth it if there is a fee involved...

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I'm not seeing any fully defined crystal forms in your rock. That knowledge actually helps with an ID for the rock habit but it doesn't identify any particular mineral by crystal structure.

If the gemologist has an XRF gun that detects amphibole group mineral elements (Calcium, Magnesium, Aluminum or Iron, Sulfur and Silica) it would be a quick test. I doubt the stone has much monetary value but curiosity can seldom be satisfied for an immediate profit. Knowledge on the other hand profits the possessor for life. Go for it if you really want to know.

Or not. :inocent:

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