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Hello everyone,

I came across this in my father's collected items. I know absolutely nothing about rocks, minerals and fossils, but i'd love to know more about this piece. Perhaps it is very straightforward..

Unfortunately, I have little background information on it as well. It could have been acquired either by my great grandfather who journeyed from Sweden to North America and traveled across the continent, trading stuff, OR by my grandfather in Sweden, who, as a fine-watch repairman, would settle for payment in things he was offered and liked, should the customer come up "a little short" on payments. 

Here are some snapshots, and would greatly appreciate some thoughts! thank you. 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/MFbmQEJhxdfvbUkMA

E9362D75-16EF-447E-BC9C-CB3F1834BC87.jpeg

51EA299B-D8F6-4C51-AB9E-B73C7B396368.jpeg

8B62AA5D-4BA4-4CA5-9065-C7F4B16EB72B.jpeg

1181434B-EA76-41CD-B564-269155006EFA.jpeg

Edited by bassebus
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Kind of resembles a compacted core sample of some type . . .

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10 hours ago, bassebus said:

Hello everyone,

I came across this in my father's collected items. I know absolutely nothing about rocks, minerals and fossils, but i'd love to know more about this piece. Perhaps it is very straightforward..

Unfortunately, I have little background information on it as well. It could have been acquired either by my great grandfather who journeyed from Sweden to North America and traveled across the continent, trading stuff, OR by my grandfather in Sweden, who, as a fine-watch repairman, would settle for payment in things he was offered and liked, should the customer come up "a little short" on payments. 

Here are some snapshots, and would greatly appreciate some thoughts! thank you. 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/MFbmQEJhxdfvbUkMA

E9362D75-16EF-447E-BC9C-CB3F1834BC87.jpeg

51EA299B-D8F6-4C51-AB9E-B73C7B396368.jpeg

8B62AA5D-4BA4-4CA5-9065-C7F4B16EB72B.jpeg

1181434B-EA76-41CD-B564-269155006EFA.jpeg

"well, it has certainly been found naturally"

There seems to be some conflicting information which begs the question Mr. Bassebus, in that you said you knew Nada about the item, yet you insist that it was found naturally. So I'm wondering how you know for a fact that it was found naturally? Is there a source that verified the origin?

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What we can determine from the photo is this....

It is silaceous. It is not a cave mineral like a stalactite. Those are soluble minerals and that is not what you have.

 It is a replacement of organic material with silicon. It appears to be some type of living organism rather than a mineral arrangement. It is a fossil of some sort. 

It has obviously been shaped and polished. So the original form has been altered a bit by polishing. We can see the segments wrapped around a core.

I have segments of a big worm that looks just like that. Only individual segments and not a series of segments. The match is almost identical.

I was told what I had was the fossilized remains of some type of worm by a guy that was supposed to know that stuff. I have no idea if he was correct but he seemed to recognize them immediately. He said they were fairly common. My opinion is that he was probably correct. 

So based on that tidbit of knowledge and a whole bunch of assumptions I think it is a worm carcass turned to stone. 

It is definitely a fossil. It was a living organism of some sort. I assumed what I had was a plant fossil until an "expert" convinced me it was a worm. 

If you want to know exactly what it was BEFORE it became a mineral replacement you need to take it to an expert on fossils. 

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1 hour ago, BMc said:

"well, it has certainly been found naturally"

There seems to be some conflicting information which begs the question Mr. Bassebus, in that you said you knew Nada about the item, yet you insist that it was found naturally. So I'm wondering how you know for a fact that it was found naturally? Is there a source that verified the origin?

We could cross examine the OP and try to find fault with his testimony. 

Or we could give our opinions on the rock he posted. 

After all this is the mineral forum. The guy just posted a photo of a really cool old fossil his dad had laying around. Now you are going to work on him for some reason.

Do you think this item wasn't "found naturally"? Is there some reason to believe this is being presented as something it is not?

What is your opinion on the rock Mac? What do you think it is?

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Leave it to Bob to have a dang fossil of a giant worm!! Jeez lol.

It does look like a critter of some sort. Worm or possibly a snake the way the would be scales overlap?

Just my thoughts though!

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12 minutes ago, Morlock said:

I don't believe it's a fossil simply because of it's size and shape. It looks like some touristy curio that was crafted in Mexico by the locals.

Fair enough. It certainly could be a creation. I'm not sure why someone would make something like that and polish it up if it wasn't a fossil. 

I think a person could tell if that was stone versus a cementatious or ceramic product if it were in your hands. In a photo it would be difficult to tell. So im going to defer to bassebus's opinion on that one.

 

 

 

 

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Not withstanding the negativism and redirection away from the central issue under discussion, I think it's a fair question to pursue in order to resolve the inconsistency. Maybe there is more information to be gleaned by further inquiry. 

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Thank you all (well, most :-)) for great responses. Special shout-out to @Bedrock Bob and @Terry Soloman for getting me on the right (i think) track. Even though it seems my piece is too large for a Machaerid, your input landed me on an Orthoceras Fossil. I found this image which i think is fairly similar to mine (also the size is pretty much identical. Now I just need to find a cross section to compare with. Also,  Orthoceras fossils are apparently common in Sweden, which makes sense since that's where my family originates from. Again - thanks a bunch! 

Screen Shot 2021-07-21 at 4.07.22 PM.png

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1 hour ago, Morlock said:

If you really think it's a fossil from Sweden I suggest you contact the proper authorities.

https://www.nrm.se/en/forskningochsamlingar/paleobiologi.9000584.html

https://www.nrm.se/en/ommuseet/kontakt.7137.html

Someone should be able to help.

This is great. I will. and i'll update this thread with any further findings. thanks. 

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I should change my post header since i know much more about this. Here's the response from the Swedish Natural History Museum. Very cool. Thanks @Morlock for the link.

-------

Hello Bassebus,

 

Thanks for the email. I think I can answer your question.

It is very much a fossil of a so-called orthoceratitis you have here. It is an extinct group of octopuses that had most of their body enclosed in a long, straight shell. This specimen is only part of the whole animal (which could be several meters long). The outer wall of the shell itself is ground away, and what we can see is the inner part of the shell which was divided into chambers by many small walls (the white transverse stripes). All chambers are filled with the mineral calcite (white areas) and calcareous clay (reddish areas) which have filled the cavities in the shell after the animal's death when the shell was on the seabed before it became a fossil. The longitudinal wide stripe that can be seen in some of the pictures is a so-called siphuncle, a tube that went through all the chambers in the entire shell and which was filled with living tissue when the animal was alive. With the help of it, the octopus could regulate how much water and gas was in the shell's chamber to balance the shell and change position in the sea (rise to the surface if there was more gas and sink again with more water. Much like a submarine.

You can see that the ridges are quite wide and that the sieve sparkle is at the bottom and is quite wide. This allows us to identify this octopus. It belongs to the genus Endoceras (see the picture of a reconstruction of Endoceras above). It was one of the largest animals of its time and may have been one of the most important predators in the sea before fish with teeth and jaws developed. Endoceras was very common in the sea that covered Sweden during the period Ordovician (485-440 million years ago). The color of the stone inside the chambers also fits well with the fact that it would be a Swedish fossil you have. Maybe from Öland, where these octopuses are very common in the limestone that was formed during the Ordovician. You can see many similar fossils in floors and stairs in older public buildings, which are often made of Öland lime. You can easily find your own copies there and in several other places in Sweden.

 

On the Swedish Museum of Natural History's website, you can read more about the time period ordovicium and the animals that lived during that time:https://utstallning.nrm.se/4.4f4d16d8151338bf60390306.html#ordovicium

I hope this answer gives you a little more information about your fine fossil!

Have a nice summer!

Christian

 

Christian B. Skovsted

Deputy Head of Unit

First Curator, Evertebrate Paleontology

Department of Paleobiology

Swedish Museum of Natural History

image006.jpg

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Bassebus

Well, I must say I'm surprised. I've been interested in earth sciences in various forms since I was a kid and have never seen anything like this before. Everything about it...the size, shape, coloration led me to think it was tourist curio that might have come from Tijuana...no offense.

I'm glad you posted that picture here on the nuggetshooter forum as a lot of us learned something new.

Do you have anymore stumpers you can throw at us?😉

 

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