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2 Flat Tires Lead To Tragedy In Death Valley


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So you want to debate my use of the term "illegal"?

Isn't that a lot like debating the earth's crust?

:laught16:

The point is you can't drive off road in Death Valley. You have to stay on designated routes. Off roading is clearly PROHIBITED.

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Simply because a route is "designated" doesn't mean it's suited for travel on 4 ply hiway tires. I've been on designated routes in there, in my Dodge 4 x 4 where I'd never take the wife's Outback. Peo

You are welcome to change your point Bob. Now you get it. I'm glad I helped clarify that for you. The earth's crust discussion must be in another thread?

There are several legal-to-drive roads in there that will get you in trouble...especially on hiway tires and little ground clearance. A German couple and two kids died the same way in there 10 or 15 y

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14 minutes ago, Bedrock Bob said:

So you want to debate my use of the term "illegal"?

Isn't that a lot like debating the earth's crust?

:laught16:

The point is you can't drive off road in Death Valley. You have to stay on designated routes. Off roading is clearly PROHIBITED.

You are welcome to change your point Bob. Now you get it. :D

I'm glad I helped clarify that for you.

The earth's crust discussion must be in another thread?

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As long as we're nitpicking...bear in mind that there's a large difference between the words "can't", and "shouldn't". The difference is enough to prevent , or cause, you're death.

Jim

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1 hour ago, Idaho Jim said:

As long as we're nitpicking...bear in mind that there's a large difference between the words "can't", and "shouldn't". The difference is enough to prevent , or cause, you're death.

Jim

Yep, some people confuse the words "should" and "must".

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4 hours ago, clay said:

You are welcome to change your point Bob. Now you get it. :D

I'm glad I helped clarify that for you.

The earth's crust discussion must be in another thread?

Yes, it was another thread. But similar inasmuch as it was a desperate attempt to find fault with something I posted. And when no winning angle for a debate can be found the definition of a single word became the issue.

At least the word you decided to hinge a debate over was a three syllable word. Slim's word just had one.

:25r30wi:

 

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1 hour ago, clay said:

You are welcome to change your point Bob. Now you get it. :D

I'm glad I helped clarify that for you.

The earth's crust discussion must be in another thread?

Have you noticed that bob can never be wrong? 
It also seems that he has a habit of trying to steer any thread I start off topic. I suspect he will bring sausage into this conversation next.
Getting back to tires, I think many hiker types take the blacktop to a trailhead and park in the lot, then follow the designated trails. It ain't like that in remote areas of Death Valley. Just pulling off the blacktop on the side of the road or into an unimproved parking area can result is cut sidewalls or sharp rocks wedging themselves into the tread of tires.  
I'd like to hear about how these unfortunate people got 2 flat tires. 

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18 minutes ago, Dakota Slim said:


I'd like to hear about how these unfortunate people got 2 flat tires. 

It was probably something that punctured them and let the air out Slim.

Are you interested in knowing what objects actually caused the tires to go flat? 

Why?

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23 minutes ago, Bedrock Bob said:

Wouldn't coin and nugget shooting be illegal in this area?

Or is "prohibited" a better word?

I guess you'd have to check the rules bob. I wonder if shooting up old glass bottles is prohibited. Heck, even shooting. 
One thing is for sure though, the government made a huge land grab when Clinton substantially enlarged the park and created the Joshua National Park in 1994. 
Lots of good ground was pulled from the mining public. 
Oh, and face masks are required on these lands now. I wonder if subjects of this thread were wearing theirs.

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1 hour ago, Dakota Slim said:

I guess you'd have to check the rules bob. I wonder if shooting up old glass bottles is prohibited. Heck, even shooting. 
One thing is for sure though, the government made a huge land grab when Clinton substantially enlarged the park and created the Joshua National Park in 1994. 
Lots of good ground was pulled from the mining public. 
Oh, and face masks are required on these lands now. I wonder if subjects of this thread were wearing theirs.

You would have to check the regulations Slim. Not the rules...

"Regulations are mechanisms for implementing laws and for enforcing established policies. Regulations have the force and effect of law, and violations of the same are punishable by fines, imprisonment, or both. "

:)

I'm assuming since it is a National Park that any type of prospecting or metal detecting would be prohibited. Just like off road driving and off road vehicles. If I wanted to find out for sure I would look at the regulations.

Masks are only required inside park buildings and where distancing is impossible. So "on these lands" they are not required. I would certainly wear one if I was going to be face to face with anyone inside or out. And on these lands you should too.

I already posted the link to the regulations in this park. You should click on it. Then you would know what the regulations are concerning off roading, masks, shooting, detecting and prospecting.

Ill post it again for you!

https://www.nps.gov/deva/planyourvisit/backcountryroads.htm

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2 hours ago, Dakota Slim said:

 he will bring sausage 

If only they had had the foresight...

 

to subscribe to one of thos GPS  satellite transponder services(and had the associated  hardware that went along with it.) Then they would have been able to call a MAYDAY:ROFL:.

Or, failing that  , had checked in with the ranger station - noting area to be visited. Could be  hassle, tho,if they jes wanted to mosey about.

As previously stated, cell coverage is nil over very large areas of the park. I checked Verizon's coverage map...

One particular  lesson to repeat: dirt roads will bite tires. Air down, drive slower.

That has been my experience, and heard it from many others.     " But it's smoother if you drive faster..." ...causing those sharpies to kick up at a nice angle as they get run over by the rear tires.

In addition , a fresly graded road seems to have a worse bite, I guess for the fact that some of the bits and bobs aren't quite settled.

 

 Oh, don't forget the eggs, bacon, grits with that.  uh ,er. uno

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1 hour ago, Dakota Slim said:


Oh, and face masks are required on these lands now. I wonder if subjects of this thread were wearing theirs.

Nowhere by statute. Just policy and agency mandate. Highly unconstitutional.

Face diapers don't work.

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6 minutes ago, Stillweaver hillbelli said:

Lots of interesting comments at that site. Similar to those here except for the sausage and the crust.

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6 minutes ago, Dakota Slim said:

Lots of interesting comments at that site. Similar to those here except for the sausage and the crust.

The second page  is detailed

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17 minutes ago, Dakota Slim said:

Exactly, and not one troll in sight!

:tisk-tisk:What about the oBertobay AI bot, right here?

:duc:I think they just duplicate it across all web forums, and have it individually  moderated: only doing a little editting, here and there, as necessary. 

FWIW, I was kicked off that forum, twice... I had invaded:Diggin_a_hole: the British forum area topic on ""banter""- with a header of "no holds barred".  Jumping in to the fray ended with me calling  , a moderator, a  numpty scrot.:Just_Cuz_15: 

It seems they are very PC  over there. There are trolls there,  by the way. I think a skilled adversary is needed to tread  in those waters.

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Laws, Policies & Regulations

The National Park Service carries out its responsibilities in parks and programs under the authority of Federal laws, regulations, and Executive Orders, and in accord with policies established by the Director of the National Park Service and the Secretary of the Interior.

Policies are designed to improve the internal management of the National Park Service. They are not enforceable legal tools. An example of NPS policy is section 7.3.2.1 of Management Policies (2006), dealing with the content and design of park brochures. If you have questions about NPS policies, please contact the Office of Policy.

Regulations are mechanisms for implementing laws and for enforcing established policies. Regulations have the force and effect of law, and violations of the same are punishable by fines, imprisonment, or both. Examples of NPS regulations include those on pets (36 CFR 2.15), metal detectors (36 CFR 2.1(a)(7)), and alcoholic beverages (36 CFR 2.35) in the parks.

NPS regulations published in title 36 of the Code of Federal Regulations are basically detailed statements of how policies will be applied to the public. Once published in this form, they apply to everyone, and their violation may invoke a fine and/or imprisonment. 

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For emphasis, since possible imprisonment under the code would (obviously), seem to exceed a civil prohibition. 

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Constitutional scholars on this forum disagree with your position Mac. They will tell you the NPS has no authority to enforce regulation.

And you can't call a violation of the regulation "illegal" because regulations are not technically laws.

Just as rock and dirt are not technically the earths crust. 

Or so says the peanut gallery anyhow.

I think the lot of them are so stuffed full of kielbasa they can't button their britches. 

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7 minutes ago, Bedrock Bob said:

Constitutional scholars on this forum disagree with your position Mac. They will tell you the NPS has no authority to enforce regulation.

I think the lot of them are so stuffed full of kielbasa they can't button their britches. 

Seems you like to make up stuff for the drama Bob. I don't see anywhere in this thread where anyone has even suggested the NPS has no authority to enforce regulation.

You did manage to get the sausage reference in though! :thumbsupanim

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10 hours ago, clay said:

Seems you like to make up stuff for the drama Bob. I don't see anywhere in this thread where anyone has even suggested the NPS has no authority to enforce regulation.

You did manage to get the sausage reference in though! :thumbsupanim

Then you need to read the posts a little better Clay. You aren't the only "constitutional scholar" here. 

Slim wanted sausage so bad he couldnt stop posting about it so I decided to oblige. Heck he mentioned it four times!

(I think he likes it spicy)

:laught16:

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