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Can you metal detect on a load claim for alluvial or float gold?


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Would alluvial/float gold be considered placer?  And would anyone feel like this would be a disrespectful move? 

Edited by mariposagoldbag
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Hi, Does your question ask about discovering Alluvial/Lode gold on a Placer mining claim?

If Yes, then short of starting an argument; on face value, if there is no Lode Claim on this USFS/BLM land and you have found Alluvial/Lode, gold in quartz or rough not stream tumbled smooth, then it would not be Placer gold and not part of the Placer Claim.

But, if the Lode gold fell into a creek on a Placer Claim, then I wouldn’t touch it.

There are areas here in Amador County where both Placer and Lode Claims are filed by different people on the same property.

 

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It's a basic of mining law that every valid claim, whether lode or placer, gives the claimant the right to all the valuable minerals found in their location.

Placer gold on a lode claim belongs to the lode claim owner. Lode minerals found on a placer claim belong to the placer claim owner.

You can download and read the location rights in the General Mining Act Here.

 

 

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7 hours ago, mariposagoldbag said:

Would alluvial/float gold be considered placer?  And would anyone feel like this would be a disrespectful move? 

I would consider it very disrespectful, and like Clay pointed out, it IS illegal.   

Since not all hard rock operations chase down the float, you may be able to secure permission...if you ask.

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The way i have always understood it was, is a load claim trumps a placer claim. So if there was a load claim on a piece of ground first, only the owner of the lode claim can file a placer claim on it for it to be valid. But you should differentiate between the 2. Because i believe float minerals that have broke away from the load, no matter the distance found from the lode, are still considered placer right? Its just your responsibility to pick which one will be more profitable to you when you file. Most small miners are not set up to mine a lode claim. I could be wrong, but thats how i have understood it to be. I see clay added a link, but i typed this already before looking at it Haha. Clay is pretty sharp on this subject. 

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There are no circumstances where a placer claim can legally be located over a valid lode claim.

IF a placer claim owner discovers a valid lode on their valid placer claim they MAY locate a lode claim for that deposit but the lode is not "over" the existing placer it replaces the placer claim within it's boundaries. The placer claim is reduced by the same number of acres that the lode claim encompasses.

These location laws don't seem to make sense unless you realize that the federal government charges twice as much for a lode claim patent as they  do for a placer patent. This is about money not minerals. The law is in place to stop locators from trying to get lode patents at half price and to prevent several of the more valuable lode claims being located as a single placer claim.

Still and always each type of claim, if valid, own ALL of the valuable minerals found within their location. Not just gold, all the valuable minerals.

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Interesting...  I appreciate the information.  I always thought alluvial gold was basically placer..  I also thought that you can have a placer claim overlay a load claim.  Thank you.

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19 hours ago, mariposagoldbag said:

Interesting...  I appreciate the information.  I always thought alluvial gold was basically placer..  I also thought that you can have a placer claim overlay a load claim.  Thank you.

You can probably file a placer claim over a lode claim and they'll sure take your money but it won't be valid.

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I followed some claim filings in northern Nevada.  Lode claims had been filed on the land on a certain date.  Several were filed adjacent to each other with adjoining borders.  These load claims were sold and the claim filed by the new owners was a placer claim but it used the date of the load claim as the date of discovery.  Is that a valid transfer?

I know of another instance of a claim in southern California where 'partners' were in dispute over an unclaimed parcel and one filed a placer claim and the other filed a lode claim.  They were told by attorneys that if they went to court the judge probably would not consider the type of claim in his decision.  He would weigh heavily the date of the first claim over the date of the second claim, even if within hours.  The parties did not go to court.

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Hey Mitchel, have you asked the Nevada Division of Minerals? If not give a call and they can give you all the info you need. 775 684-7040 in Carson.

-ht

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9 hours ago, mn90403 said:

I followed some claim filings in northern Nevada.  Lode claims had been filed on the land on a certain date.  Several were filed adjacent to each other with adjoining borders.  These load claims were sold and the claim filed by the new owners was a placer claim but it used the date of the load claim as the date of discovery.  Is that a valid transfer?

When a claim is transferred (sold or given) from one owner to another it does not change from one type of claim to another. Neither a transfer of interest nor a claim amendment can change the type of claim from lode to placer. I seriously doubt the Nevada BLM would or could allow the type of mining claim to change from lode to placer. Read the regulations they are quite clear on these points, there is no gray area.

The new owners may have relinquished the lode claims and relocated the approximate area as new placer claims but there is no process that could change an existing lode claim into a placer claim.

 

9 hours ago, mn90403 said:

I know of another instance of a claim in southern California where 'partners' were in dispute over an unclaimed parcel and one filed a placer claim and the other filed a lode claim.  They were told by attorneys that if they went to court the judge probably would not consider the type of claim in his decision.  He would weigh heavily the date of the first claim over the date of the second claim, even if within hours.  The parties did not go to court.

The lawyer was correct. No matter what type of claim is located the first locator is senior and all things being equal the senior locator has the valid claim.

Edited by clay
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Can you see documents like this online?

 

LOCATION DATE, RECORDATION NOTICE, TRF OF INTEREST FILED, MAP IN LEAD FILE, COUNTY RECORDATION 

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2 hours ago, mn90403 said:

Can you see documents like this online?

 

LOCATION DATE, RECORDATION NOTICE, TRF OF INTEREST FILED, MAP IN LEAD FILE, COUNTY RECORDATION 

Those aren't documents Mitchel. They are required action code titles in the BLM mining claim case file system. Most of those action codes only require a submission or completion date be added by the BLM State office to the Serial Register Page for the case file.

The documents that initiate those codes are the Mining Claim Location Notice and the Quitclaim/Transfer of Interest. Both those documents are recorded in the County in which the claim is located. Some County Recorders do have online access to copies of those public records.

Most Arizona and Nevada County Public Records are available online. I don't know of any County Recorders in California that make those Public Records available online. It varies from County to County you just have to check with the County Recorder in question. Often, if your request is specific enough and limited to a few records, County Recorders will email you a photocopy for free or a minimal fee.

Edited by clay
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Ok Clay, thanks. I had looked at the file and seen the dates but could not see any additional details on the BLM.  When I went to Pershing County to see documents online it gave me the county menu rather than take me to the recording office directly as I had seen on your links before.  I'll have to try again.

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Pershing County does have online recordings. There is no direct link, you have to navigate the Recorders site and learn a slightly different search system. It's slow but they do provide the public records online.

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