Can you metal detect on a load claim for alluvial or float gold?

[Idaho Jim]

I copied this from A booklet from U of N, Reno. It was dated 2002, so may be out of date. The booklet is entitled "Mining Claim Procedures for Nevada Prospectors and Miners" fifth edition. Here's what it said:

LODE VERSUS PLACER CLAIM
Mineral deposits are located either by lode or placer claims (43 CFR 3840). The
locator must decide whether a lode or placer claim should be used for a given material;
the decision is not always easy but is critical. A lode claim is void if used to acquire
a placer deposit, and a placer claim is void if used for a lode deposit. The 1872
Federal law requires a lode claim for “veins or lodes of quartz or other rock in place”
(30 USC 26; 43 CFR 3841.1), and a placer claim for all “forms of deposit, excepting
veins of quartz or other rock in place” (30 USC 35). More generally, any vein, lode,
zone, or belt of mineralized rock lying between boundaries that separate it from the
neighboring rock, even if these boundaries are gradational, should be located as a
lode claim. Particles and nuggets of gold contained in gravel or sand should be
located as a placer claim. The form of the deposit, and not whether it contains a
metal or nonmetal, is the controlling factor. Building stone, diatomite, pumice, salt,
and some other materials are commonly located as placers (30 USC 161, 162, 611),
and disseminated copper and disseminated gold deposits are located as lodes.
(“Disseminated” means that the mineral is finely distributed throughout a volume of
solid rock.) An unpatented placer claim gives no rights to known lodes present within
its boundary (30 USC 37; Clipper Mining Co. v. Eli Mining and Land Co., 194 US 220
[1904]); if a lode is known to exist, it should be located by a lode claim.

Jim

[mariposagoldbag]

Just came back to this topic...thank you to everyone for your input...  I'm still a little confused however....  Can I file a placer claim on top of a load claim?

[clay]

35 minutes ago, mariposagoldbag said:

Just came back to this topic...thank you to everyone for your input...  I'm still a little confused however....  Can I file a placer claim on top of a load claim?

There are no circumstances where a placer claim can be located over a valid lode claim.

[mariposagoldbag]

7 hours ago, clay said:

There are no circumstances where a placer claim can be located over a valid lode claim.

Thanks Clay.  Someone just put a load claim directly over a wash I was working...so can I then still search for placer in this wash?

[Guest]

10 hours ago, mariposagoldbag said:

Just came back to this topic...thank you to everyone for your input...  I'm still a little confused however....  Can I file a placer claim on top of a load claim?

Can a load claim be placed over a valid placer claim, seems to be more pertinent. 

[Guest]

And the answer is no. 

But If there's no previous placer claim in the area,and the properly  filed, registered  and blessed      load claim has all the i's dotted and t's crossed, 

so I have read in these forums

,well then, "first come, first serve," as said by hoser john itf.

I wouldn't want to trespass. There cannot be two different claims  over the same ground, so I have read itf, unless by the same mine owner.

Edited February 9, 2021 by Guest

[Guest]

Placer over load search good read from eight yrs ago.

[mariposagoldbag]

21 minutes ago, Stillweaver hillbelli said:

Placer over load search good read from eight yrs ago.

Thanks for your input man...I'm going to read that!  There's no placer claim on this wash, just a load claim....so I'm still confused as to weather or not they have any rights to placer gold in the wash.  I'm thinking I can still detect in there based off some of the stuff I read on here....just cant claim it...?  If they wanted the placer gold they should filed a placer claim im thinking....am I wrong?

Edited February 9, 2021 by mariposagoldbag

[Guest]

" weather or not they have any rights to placer gold in the wash.  I'm thinking I can still detect in there based off some of the stuff I read on here....just cant claim it...?".....

.....

I wouldn't claim it or trespass. You  could always respectfully ask for permission.

  That old thread is a good read.

Edited February 9, 2021 by Guest

[clay]

5 hours ago, mariposagoldbag said:

Thanks Clay.  Someone just put a load claim directly over a wash I was working...so can I then still search for placer in this wash?

No. That would be intentional mineral trespass.

Arizona trespass law.
 

Quote

 

13-1504. Criminal trespass in the first degree; classification

A. A person commits criminal trespass in the first degree by knowingly:

1. Entering or remaining unlawfully in or on a residential structure.

2. Entering or remaining unlawfully in a fenced residential yard.

3. Entering any residential yard and, without lawful authority, looking into the residential structure thereon in reckless disregard of infringing on the inhabitant's right of privacy.

4. Entering unlawfully on real property that is subject to a valid mineral claim or lease with the intent to hold, work, take or explore for minerals on the claim or lease.

5. Entering or remaining unlawfully on the property of another and burning, defacing, mutilating or otherwise desecrating a religious symbol or other religious property of another without the express permission of the owner of the property.

6. Entering or remaining unlawfully in or on a critical public service facility.

B. Criminal trespass in the first degree under subsection A, paragraph 6 of this section is a class 5 felony.  Criminal trespass in the first degree under subsection A, paragraph 1 or 5 of this section is a class 6 felony.  Criminal trespass in the first degree under subsection A, paragraph 2, 3 or 4 of this section is a class 1 misdemeanor.

 

 

[LukeJ]

15 minutes ago, mariposagoldbag said:

Thanks for your input man...I'm going to read that!  There's no placer claim on this wash, just a load claim....so I'm still confused as to weather or not they have any rights to placer gold in the wash.  I'm thinking I can still detect in there based off some of the stuff I read on here....just cant claim it...?  If they wanted the placer gold they should filed a placer claim im thinking....am I wrong?

By your logic...   What's the difference between placer gold and lode gold?

If you're detecting and find a target and start to dig, will you stop digging if the target is in the bedrock?  If you dig it out of the bedrock, was it placer or lode?  Will you put it back if it wasn't what you wanted it to be?  Will the claim owner listen to your argument?  Is the trouble worth $20 of gold?

The simple answer is....   if it's not your claim, placer or lode, then you shouldn't be there collecting minerals.

I bet I can guess the name of the guy who claimed that wash.  

[Morlock]

45 minutes ago, Stillweaver hillbelli said:

 

.....

I wouldn't claim it or trespass. You  could always respectfully ask for permission.

  

 

[LukeJ]

1 hour ago, Stillweaver hillbelli said:

I wouldn't claim it or trespass. You  could always respectfully ask for permission.

It's worth a shot.

But if it's the same guy I'm thinking of, then he'll probably offer to sell the claim since that's his 'business'.  If it is in fact the same guy, he hung a bunch of paper over an area I was working and then sold a few claims to some people from California.  Now, every 'winter', those people come out and 'camp' on that land for months at a time.

[mariposagoldbag]

Thanks for the info everyone...  I'm not looking to violate anyones claim or anything like that...  I just want the real deal answer because I'm getting mixed info.  

 

Luke, yeah its a company and may be the same people your talking about...  looked like a team of people out there claiming it up...  why would you place a load claim over a wash anyway?  I really have no clue why they claimed it.... the load is up on the hill and being mined...  did they do a load claim so that they could make the claim a little bigger and still control the placers?  I have no idea what these people are doing.  I only found minimal gold where they claimed so I'm not really tripping about it, just curious.