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Democrats want ROYALTIES!!!


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31 minutes ago, Dakota Slim said:

I'm certainly not trying to make mining companies pay royalties. You (aka the US population via the US government) gets all kinds of paybacks from the mining industry as it is. 

What kind of "paybacks" are you talking about Slim?

We are discussing the risks and benefits here. We know there are benefits. We also know there will be a downside that will offset some of those benefits as well as risks to the environment. 

I agree that there will be a few mining jobs, a mining town economy and some income tax paid. It will create millions in support services and equipment. There may be a lot of potential wealth for guys at the top end of the food chain. And "if there smart they don't have to pay taxes". (Thanks Don!) All of this is great!

On the other side of the equation there is the environmental issues, the cost to other industries, cultural concerns, and the usual problems you have in a far flung boomtown. Then there is the unknowns of accidents and disasters that are a known and well documented fact of life with huge engineering projects like this.

So it's not all roses Slim. There are real issues and real discussions to be had about the Pebble mine. There is also an intelligent discussion to be had about royalties. Although I have my doubts that either will occur here with you.

Edited by Bedrock Bob
Edited and re-edited to aggravate you
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15 hours ago, Bedrock Bob said:

So it's not all roses Slim. There are real issues and real discussions to be had about the Pebble mine. There is also an intelligent discussion to be had about royalties. Although I have my doubts that either will occur here with you.

You got that right Bob, but keep on trolling.

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3 hours ago, Dakota Slim said:

You got that right Bob, but keep on trolling.

Acknowledging there are valid arguments on both sides of an issue is not trolling. Even if it bothers you. 

Why don't we discuss royalties Slim? After all that is the topic. 

Why shouldn't we expect royalties from metals mines on public land? Why would you be against that? Why would anyone be against that?

I have explained very concisely why I support royalties. Can you explain why you don't think they are appropriate?

Help me understand your point of view Slim. You started the topic. Let's discuss it!

Edited by Bedrock Bob
Because the constitution guarantees me the right to edit as much as I want.
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21 hours ago, Bedrock Bob said:

Acknowledging there are valid arguments on both sides of an issue is not trolling. Even if it bothers you. 

Why don't we discuss royalties Slim? After all that is the topic. 

Why shouldn't we expect royalties from metals mines on public land? Why would you be against that? Why would anyone be against that?

I have explained very concisely why I support royalties. Can you explain why you don't think they are appropriate?

Help me understand your point of view Slim. You started the topic. Let's discuss it!

Edited  by Bedrock Bob
Because the constitution guarantees me the right to edit as much as I want.

Go for it Bob. Edit until your heart is content. 

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Either discuss the subject of this topic ONLY or don't reply!!

In other words STOP discussing each other and what ya'll don't like about each other, enough said!!!  .... @Bedrock Bob & @Dakota Slim

Also Bob as a "Supporting/Premium" member you have the option of unlimited editing.....BUT you're abusing it in the fact that you're using the "Reason for Editing" part as a way to take jabs at Dakota Slim, that needs to stop or you could risk losing the ability to edit your post!

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17 minutes ago, Au Seeker said:

Either discuss the subject of this topic ONLY or don't reply!!

In other words STOP discussing each other and what ya'll don't like about each other, enough said!!!  .... @Bedrock Bob & @Dakota Slim

Skip,

There is nothing that I don't like about Dakota Slim. He is perfect the way he is. 

Im just trying to get a real conversation out of him on the topic. If I was too rough with him then I apologize Skip.

I know my opinions get him worked up into a lather. I honestly don't think I posted anything that was out of line or off topic. But I realize I can't just try to discuss a topic like this without him reacting. 

Clay and I were having an adult conversation and nobody got hurt. We had an honest discussion about the topic. I was hoping Slim could do the same. I was wrong. 

 

If I offended you Slim I apologize to you too. I was just trying to draw you into a conversation instead of what we usually do. I didn't mean for it to upset you.

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9 minutes ago, Bedrock Bob said:

Skip,

There is nothing that I don't like about Dakota Slim. He is perfect the way he is. 

Im just trying to get a real conversation out of him on the topic. If I was too rough with him then I apologize Skip.

I know my opinions get him worked up into a lather. I honestly don't think I posted anything that was out of line or off topic. But I realize I can't just try to discuss a topic like this without him reacting. 

Clay and I were having an adult conversation and nobody got hurt. We had an honest discussion about the topic. I was hoping Slim could do the same. I was wrong. 

 

If I offended you Slim I apologize to you too. I was just trying to draw you into a conversation instead of what we usually do. I didn't mean for it to upset you.

Edited  by Bedrock Bob
Edited and re-edited to aggravate you

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18 minutes ago, Bedrock Bob said:

Skip,

There is nothing that I don't like about Dakota Slim. He is perfect the way he is. 

Im just trying to get a real conversation out of him on the topic. If I was too rough with him then I apologize Skip.

I know my opinions get him worked up into a lather. I honestly don't think I posted anything that was out of line or off topic. But I realize I can't just try to discuss a topic like this without him reacting. 

Clay and I were having an adult conversation and nobody got hurt. We had an honest discussion about the topic. I was hoping Slim could do the same. I was wrong. 

 

If I offended you Slim I apologize to you too. I was just trying to draw you into a conversation instead of what we usually do. I didn't mean for it to upset you.

Bob I did edit my post to add some more content since you quoted me, if you haven't seen the added content please read it!

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57 minutes ago, Au Seeker said:

Also Bob as a "Supporting/Premium" member you have the option of unlimited editing.....BUT you're abusing it in the fact that you're using the "Reason for Editing" part as a way to take jabs at Dakota Slim, that needs to stop or you could risk losing the ability to edit your post!

I did take a jab at him for griping about my editing. Of that I am guilty as charged. And for that infraction upon his ego I must apologize and throw myself at the mercy of the court.

I can't promise that I will never put an abrasive little quip in the edit box. I am a weak man. A deeply flawed man. And I know that sooner or later someone will be offended by something I write there. 

So strip me of my editing privileges. I would be more than happy to give my editing privileges to Dakota Slim. Take them away and allow him to have them. After what I have put him through and all the suffering he has had to endure it is only fair.

 

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U.S. miners decry mineral royalty plan floated in Congress

(Reuters) - U.S. mining companies are blasting proposals in Congress that would set royalties for copper, lithium and other minerals extracted from federal land, with executives saying the measures would hurt domestic production of the building blocks for solar panels, electric vehicles and other green technologies.

The House of Representatives Natural Resources Committee added language to the proposed $3.5 trillion reconciliation spending measure last week that would set an 8% gross royalty on existing mines and 4% on new ones. There would also be a 7 cent fee for every ton of rock moved.

https://news.yahoo.com/u-miners-decry-mineral-royalty-155549949.html

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Mining companies decry royalties. Just like they decry environmental regulations.

Any industry whines about any regulations. That is certainly not evidence that the regulations aren't needed or don't make sense. 

I would still like to hear a well thought out argument against royalties. So far there has been none.

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31 minutes ago, Bedrock Bob said:

Mining companies decry royalties. Just like they decry environmental regulations.

Any industry whines about any regulations. That is certainly not evidence that the regulations aren't needed or don't make sense. 

I would still like to hear a well thought out argument against royalties. So far there has been none.

There have been MANY arguments against royalties in this thread. Furthermore, it says right here in the article:

"New taxes on the front end of the supply chain undermine the EV battery goals that have been set by the president and Congress and make U.S. policy look schizophrenic," said Todd Malan of Talon Metals Corp, which is developing the Tamareck nickel deposit in Minnesota. Nickel is used to make EV battery cathodes.
"The proposed new royalty rates would affect so-called hard rock mining, but are part of a series of other proposed fee hikes on oil, coal and natural gas extraction. The committee also approved language that would block Rio Tinto Ltd from building its Resolution copper mine in Arizona."

All this, if passed, would lead to higher prices for the US consumer and further reliance of foreign oil and minerals for renewable energy. IMHO, the US needs to be energy independent.  

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The idea that royalties would affect the mining industry at all is ludicrous. It would not lead to higher prices or more reliance on foreign sources.

What is being proposed is a very small amount that would not begin to offset what the American taxpayer already pays to clean up existing sites.

Royalties are just an attempt to recoup a small amount of the cost burden the industry already places on public land and the hard working American taxpayer.

They mine on private land and pay much higher royalties. It hasn't hampered the mining industry at all. Paying a pittance for the right to mine public land is just the right thing to do. IMHO they should pay much more for destroying public land and making it unfit for multiple use. 

Every time any new regulation comes along extraction industries paint a bleak picture of how it will kill the industry. So far every one of those claims have proved false. 

The oil industry swore that having to reclaim production water would cause gas prices to soar. It didn't. Then they said that about the "Pit Rule". Again that was false. They swore the leasing moratorium would harm production. The opposite was true. Since then production has soared.

Every time big industry tells us it will be the end of the world if they must conform to common sense regulations they have been lying. This time is no different from all the others. 

It is just big industry using politics to sway opinions of people who have no knowledge of the subject. They convince ignorant people it will hurt them. They are just trying to build resistance to any regulation that may cut into their profits a little.

Meanwhile the exploit public land for a tenth the price that any private landowner would settle for. They are stealing our resources without paying for them and then expecting the taxpayer to clean up the mess. 

And people who believe their paper thin lies are helping them get by with it.

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8 minutes ago, Bedrock Bob said:

It is just big industry using politics to sway opinions of people who have no knowledge of the subject. They convince ignorant people it will hurt them.

Really? I could have sworn it was the other way around. Higher prices (be it caused by higher taxes, new royalties or more bureaucrats hired by the big-and-getting-bigger government) hurt all of us lowly citizens. How many bureaucrats would be needed to oversee this new royalty scheme? My guess is they would cost more that any royalties they collect.
Businesses need to make a profit to stay in business and in a global market, competition is intense. I say the miners that are blasting the new bigger more costly government are correct.

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1 hour ago, Dakota Slim said:

Really? I could have sworn it was the other way around. Higher prices (be it caused by higher taxes, new royalties or more bureaucrats hired by the big-and-getting-bigger government) hurt all of us lowly citizens. How many bureaucrats would be needed to oversee this new royalty scheme? My guess is they would cost more that any royalties they collect.
Businesses need to make a profit to stay in business and in a global market, competition is intense. I say the miners that are blasting the new bigger more costly government are correct.

As long as a person knows nothing about the mining industry or our economy this sounds perfectly logical. And it is the same paper thin logic that is being sold by the mining industry lobbyists to those who know nothing about the subject.

Too bad it is a fantasy. Taxpayers are subsidizing mining on public lands to the tune of billions of dollars a year. It is a giveaway of publicly owned resources as well as tax money. We should demand our due from metals mines just like coal, oil and other extraction industry on public land.

Just like any other business that wants to destroy someone else's land to make a profit. They should pay the owner for the use of the land. There is just no other way to spin it.

If they can't pay a fair price for the use of the land their project is not viable and they should not be allowed to mine. 

That's just common sense. 

 

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27 minutes ago, Bedrock Bob said:

As long as a person knows nothing about the mining industry or our economy this sounds perfectly logical. And it is the same paper thin logic that is being sold by the mining industry lobbyists to those who know nothing about the subject.

Too bad it is a fantasy. Taxpayers are subsidizing mining on public lands to the tune of billions of dollars a year. It is a giveaway of publicly owned resources as well as tax money. We should demand our due from metals mines just like coal, oil and other extraction industry on public land. Just like any other business that wants to destroy someone else's land to make a profit.

 

I posted an article titled "U.S. miners decry mineral royalty plan floated in Congress". If you are asserting that these people "know nothing" about the mining industry they are in, or our economy, can you provide a link to US miner's statements that back up what you are claiming? 
You have used the words "ignorant people" and "a person who knows nothing". Who, exactly are you referring to?

Edited by Dakota Slim
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5 hours ago, Dakota Slim said:

I posted an article titled "U.S. miners decry mineral royalty plan floated in Congress". If you are asserting that these people "know nothing" about the mining industry they are in, or our economy, can you provide a link to US miner's statements that back up what you are claiming? 
 

I don't know what you are talking about Slim. I didn't say that or anything like that. And I don't know how you could possibly interpret it as such.

This is what I said.

 

"It is just big industry using politics to sway opinions of people who have no knowledge of the subject. They convince ignorant people it will hurt them. They are just trying to build resistance to any regulation that may cut into their profits a little."

 

I think it was pretty clear.

Miners haven't decried anything Slim. Corporate lobbyists have. And I made it very clear that these claims they are making  are lies. 

Miners don't know jack about the mining business. They are experts at removing rock and digging holes. The business of mining and how royalties may affect the economy are WAY above a miners pay grade.

The subject is way above the corporate lobbyists level as well.

The people making these claims are not miners nor have they ever turned their hands to do a days work in their lives. They are simply mouthpieces for huge corporations who are out to take as much as they can and put back as little as possible.

5 hours ago, Dakota Slim said:


You have used the words "ignorant people" and "a person who knows nothing". Who, exactly are you referring to?

People who do not have the basic knowledge to recognize these claims as lies are ignorant by definition. They lack the knowledge to be able to tell lies from facts. The people who believe the shallow lies peddled by the corporate lobbyists are actively demonstrating their ignorance. These people are exactly who I am referring to.

 

 

If I can clarify anything else for you just let me know. 

 

 

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Do you have any proof that the links and excerpts you provided were actually quotes from "real miners"?

All my statements are direct quotes from a real miner. 

:25r30wi:

Slim, at some point you are just going to have to live with the fact that I disagree with you and that my reasoning for disagreeing is just as valid as your reasoning for believing the corporate propaganda.

Until that breakthrough moment comes for you I wish you the best.

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