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Well early in the year I said gold would hit $1800.00  dollars a ounce we made it. How much higher do you think it will go.

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I think $2000.00 an oz. before Christmas. Grubstake

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I think $2400 by the end of the year, maybe sooner.

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I think we've hit the high and gold will start to fall. 

Each place you look, you see a little different about how gold is used.  I'm going to go with 50% jewelry, 30% gold bars, coins, and central bank holdings, and about 20% industrial.  Since Jewelry accounts for over half of gold use, the thing that concerns me the most is the number of young couples I see who are getting rings made of something other than gold, and less jewelry being worn that has precious metals in them.  I really think its losing its appeal.  Of the rest of it, about 30% falls into what I consider speculation, bank holdings and gold bars and coin, and the rest is used by industry.

I just don't think the speculative demand for hold will outweigh the reduced demand by consumers, and perhaps if COVID causes industry to scale back on gold need, I see the price trending down.

Stock market is doing pretty good also.  It's recovered nearly everything from the tumble it did for the first couple months of the year.  People who have money to spend in investments will probably keep it in the stock market and not gold speculation. 

I know people like to say things like gold goes up when the stock market goes down or there's uncertainty, and that certainly does make good radio and TV commercials, but when I look at the charts that says gold prices and compares it to things like the stock market, I see no correlation.

I'm no expert here, but I think by looking at charts, I'd say the true price of gold right now may be closer to $1000-$1200, but I don't think we'll see that by the end of the year.  THe spike we say in the early 80's lasted around four or five years, the spike we saw around 2012 lasted a year or two longer, and it appears we're over a year into this spike.

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5 hours ago, Beeper Bob said:

Well early in the year I said gold would hit $1800.00  dollars a ounce we made it. How much higher do you think it will go.

Congrats and a tip of the hat to you Bob. You called the shot. Perhaps for different reasons than appeared to be the case at the time, but a win is a win nevertheless.

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Whats up with Platinum? It was always higher than gold. Is there just not a need for it anymore.  I have one oz. of platinum tips I pulled from the spark plugs of a P-38 that crashed in a bog up in Alaska during WW2. I have not had them tested, but I would assume they are pretty pure to put up with the heat/pressure inside the combustion chamber on those Allison engines.   What do you guys think? 

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10 hours ago, Stillweaver hillbelli said:

Silver pushed through $22 today with gold higher, too

At last! I guess that means zinc and copper will be on the rise soon? (no more silver plated coins-just 100% zinc/copper?)

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5 minutes ago, BMc said:

At last! I guess that means zinc and copper will be on the rise soon? (no more silver plated coins-just 100% zinc/copper?)

There hasn't been any silver in U.S. coins since 1964. The "silver" layer of the clad coins is mostly copper with about 8% nickel. Only the penny has zinc content.

Platinum is primarily an industrial metal. No industry anymore = no metal needed anymore. It's been many years since platinum was more valuable than gold.

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"There hasn't been any silver in U.S. coins since 1964"

Au contraire. The 1964 cutoff date applied to certain coins and not to others. Apparently it's a little known fact that "some" of these Washington silver quarters do exist. (And maybe even into 1966)

 And: "In 1964 Kennedy half dollars were made from 90% silver and 10% copper. Half dollars made from 1965 through 1970 are composed of two outer layers containing 80% silver and 20% copper with an inner core of 20.9% silver and 79.1% copper (net composition: 40% silver and 60% copper)"

Also: Bicentennial Kennedy Half Dollars-Wikipedia 1965–1970, (some 1776–1976 San Francisco-minted coins: outer layer of 80% silver, 20% copper surrounding core of 79% copper, 21% silver, totaling 60% copper, 40% silver) etc. etc. 

 

Washington Quarter-1965 silver.PNG

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Posted (edited)

None of those coins are "Silver plated" BMc.

And you can buy $50 gold one ounce coins as well as $1 Silver one ounce coins from the mint since 1986. There is also a series of modern State quarters minted in silver clad.

None of which have been introduced into common circulation except by mistake.

If you run into any of the ounce gold or silver mint coins I'm paying 10% over face value. That's $55 for the gold eagle and $1.05 for the Silver Eagle - 10% more than the government will pay you.

Edited by clay
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30 minutes ago, BMc said:

"There hasn't been any silver in U.S. coins since 1964"

Au contraire. The 1964 cutoff date applied to certain coins and not to others. Apparently it's a little known fact that "some" of these Washington silver quarters do exist. (And maybe even into 1966)

 And: "In 1964 Kennedy half dollars were made from 90% silver and 10% copper. Half dollars made from 1965 through 1970 are composed of two outer layers containing 80% silver and 20% copper with an inner core of 20.9% silver and 79.1% copper (net composition: 40% silver and 60% copper)"

Also: Bicentennial Kennedy Half Dollars-Wikipedia 1965–1970, (some 1776–1976 San Francisco-minted coins: outer layer of 80% silver, 20% copper surrounding core of 79% copper, 21% silver, totaling 60% copper, 40% silver) etc. etc. 

 

Washington Quarter-1965 silver.PNG

So do these outer layers amount to a miniscule amount of silver, kind of like on the cheap gold electrical conductors?

If not my one trip to the casino in 1994, I can how many of these post 64 silver quarters and post 64 silver half dollars I stuffed down the slot machine and lost!

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1 hour ago, chrisski said:

So do these outer layers amount to a miniscule amount of silver, kind of like on the cheap gold electrical conductors?

If not my one trip to the casino in 1994, I can how many of these post 64 silver quarters and post 64 silver half dollars I stuffed down the slot machine and lost!

"The period between 1964 and 1965 was a busy time at the U.S. Mint as it transitioned away from 90 percent silver dimes, quarter dollars and half dollars, moving the first two to a copper-nickel clad composition and the half dollar to a silver-copper clad composition (40 percent silver). As a result, a few 1965 coins struck on planchets intended for the pre-1965 90 percent silver issues are known. These are coveted by collectors. The error type is also sometimes called a “wrong metal” error"

The mint apparently "accidentally" kept using silver to mint an unknown quantity of these quarters. One recently sold for $7,000.00

They supposedly are rare so you may not have lost that many . . . :)

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1 hour ago, clay said:

None of those coins are "Silver plated" BMc.

And you can buy $50 gold one ounce coins as well as $1 Silver one ounce coins from the mint since 1986. There is also a series of modern State quarters minted in silver clad.

None of which have been introduced into common circulation except by mistake.

If you run into any of the ounce gold or silver mint coins I'm paying 10% over face value. That's $55 for the gold eagle and $1.05 for the Silver Eagle - 10% more than the government will pay you.

Clay, clay, clay:  It was meant to be a sarcastic remark and a question in jest, by making fun of clad coins in general. It wasn't intended to be a statement of fact.  Had you not been so quick to jump on it with an erroneous correction you might have gotten the point. Now, you seem to be dodging the fact, that yes, Kennedy half dollars, released into normal circulation, contain silver. (1965-1970) Next you will no doubt try and tell me you meant minted coins that are "all silver", not what you actual said: "There hasn't been any silver in U.S. coins since 1964"

And what does introduce into common circulation except by mistake have to do with your statement: any silver in U.S. coins??
And saying you can buy coins from the mint has nothing whatsoever to do with what you originally said, and are now trying to obfuscate, dodge, change, eliminate and divert and redirect from, Which was: "There hasn't been any silver in U.S. coins since 1964. The "silver" layer of the clad coins is mostly copper ...."

Wiki-Fact: "Half dollars made from 1965 through 1970 are composed of two outer layers containing 80% silver and 20% copper with an inner core of 20.9% silver and 79.1% copper (net composition: 40% silver and 60% copper)"

Clay, Nothing personal. And  I know you are a smart guy. There are quite a few smart people on this forum. But none of us are as smart as we think we are. We all make mistakes. Especially when we shoot from the hip. If you didn't get my sarcasm about the plated coin, the fact remains:

There have been silver in U.S. coins since 1964.

Kennedy half dollars 1965-70 (In common circulation) Once again, 80% silver outer layer, inner core 20.9% silver: Total silver content=40%

 

 

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And there is still silver in U.S. coins you can order from the mint.  But never have U.S. coins been silver plated. Not even by mistake.

Wiki facts are appreciated and are absolute proof the internet exists.

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Right. Again the mint diversion?

I never said that coins have been silver plated, although that is what you erroneously inferred in your haste to nitpick and set me straight. I make fun of clad coins by saying they are silver plated or copper plated or whatever. The point is, the diminution of value of the coin.

And how do you know that coins are not silver plated, did the information come to you from some supreme being or did you at some point have to learn it? If I don't know something, I look it up. And often, I look up things anyway just to be sure I'm right.

"And there is still silver in U.S. coins you can order from the mint"

Exactly, what does that have to do with what you claimed to be true about no silver in US coins since 1964?

I have known that Kennedy silver half dollars from 1965-70 contained silver content and were worth more than face value since I first started collecting Kennedy halves. Long before the internet came along. And I know they were released into circulation, not purchased from the mint. And if you had done due diligence, hopefully you would have known that also, and not made the blunder you now pretend doesn't exist.

Look Clay, I don't mind being corrected when I'm wrong. And if you had stopped at just the issue of silver plated coins, I simply would have clarified, that It's a Joke! and let it go at that. But the momentum of your sonorous lecture allowed your lack of knowledge to lead you into a trap of your own making.

I'm reminded of the (paraphrase) Be sure you're right, then go ahead!

Here's an internet opportunity for you: Hoisted by Your own Petard.

 

 

 

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13 hours ago, BMc said:

At last! I guess that means zinc and copper will be on the rise soon? (no more silver plated coins-just 100% zinc/copper?)

Non-plated, post 1964 silver pushed past $23

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I just purchased a roll of silver plated New Mexico quarters to put in the ends of my sotol walking sticks.

I would have purchased the solid silver ones but they were too expensive. They looked exactly like the plated ones. I figured that being embedded in the end of the sticks and covered in resin that the plated item would serve the purpose for less money.

The outfit I bought them from offered a bunch of the State coins in plated and solid silver. Along with National Park quarters and a few other commemorative coins. You pay a bit more for the uncirculated coins but they sell the plated ones that are a bit worn. 

I'm doing a few Aldo Leopold Wilderness coins in plated silver too.

A buddy of mine has a lavanderia and all the machines use quarters. He has 5 gallon buckets of quarters he recycles for use in the change machines. He lets me go through the buckets and pick out the ones that I want for my art projects. I have found all of the plated Aldo Leopold Wilderness commemorative in that bunch along with many clad New Mexico commemoratives and a couple Yellowstone silver plated.

They were probably stolen from someone's collection and put through a Coinstar machine at Wal Mart. But they wound up at the wash and fold. So they were indeed "in circulation". 

I know other countries still use copper and silver for coinage and tokens. U.S. coins account for a small fraction of the metals used in coinage. We use more folding money and credit/debit for purchases than do other countries. And larger stores are trying to phase out change as much as they can. So I think that overall the demand for metal coinage of all kinds is slipping. At least in the developed countries. 

Back when the old pesos were in trouble a guy I knew bought up all the Mexican change he could. He took them by the truckload to Phelps Dodge in El Paso. They were worth more than twice their face value in metal. He bought so many coins in Juarez that the Mexican Government stopped him. He made a nice chunk of change before he was shut down. It wasnt too long after that they changed the coins and reset the value of their money. 

You can still find the old silver and copper Mexican coins all along the coast in the water. They were so devalued that people would drill holes in them and use them for fishing weights. I have found many valuable old coins scuba diving around Baja and Keno that were repurposed for weights back in the day. They were worth nothing in their numismatic value but the metals in them make them with saving.

Many of my best detector finds in New Mexico are conchos. Spanish coins were worthless when Mexican coins were minted. Mexican coins were worthless not too long after the Gadsden Purchase. The border was just a concept back then and Vaqueros operated on both sides of it.

Silver was spendable in bullion form though. So silver coins were hammered into conchos and adorned the Cowboys saddle, chaps and belts. Many still retain the faint markings but are shaped into flowers with a square nail hole in the middle for a leather thong. Many were lost on the trails and you can still find them if you know where to look.

The same with silver "shot". If you took a coin to a store you would not get change back. Usually only tokens good only at that establishment. Often only for certain products. So coins were an unpopular way to pay. Finished silver was often melted and poured into a leaky tub or through a screen. This produced "shot" that could be weighed to the exact amount. This silver shot is a very common find in old cowboy camps along with tokens and conchos. A good nugget detector will locate these little silver popcorn looking blobs easily. 

I have a pile of Spanish cobs hammered into conchos as well as US and Mexican coins. And a half mason jar filled with silver shot I have found at cowboy camps where they fattened the herds at the end of the trail before weighing and loading on the trains. I spent five years hunting this stuff near Bernal, New Mexico where they drove the cattle to be loaded. 

Silver milagros are easy to find too. They are usually silver objects hand made from silver coins. The Genizaro would make a demon or a saint figure by working a coin into a shape. All the while focusing their grief or anger into their art. Then they would walk far away and deposit the object in a spot hoping to leave their grief or bad luck with it. It was (and still is) a very common practice. With a little cultural knowledge and a good detector you can find many of them. But these are "cursed" objects that are not supposed to be taken lest the bad luck and grief go with the finder. 

I found a spot in Northern New Mexico where many dozens of the Milagros had been left. It is a lone hill near the village of Tecolote. Most are hammered silver or copper coins. Most are demon faces. Some are fashioned into the Guadalupe or a Saint. I have never taken one. Only dug them up and left them. 

 

 

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On 7/8/2020 at 3:52 PM, grubstake said:

I think $2000.00 an oz. before Christmas. Grubstake

Maybe before Labor Day. Do I hear 2500???

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5 hours ago, Dakota Slim said:

All bets are off these days . . . skys the limit.

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