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7 minutes ago, Caliche Chris said:

Slim what about the Asian cop who was more concerned with looking tough and proving that he wouldn’t flinch than he was with checking to see if what all those people were screaming was true? I don’t know how you complain about other people stirring the pot so much and then make a post like this. “Gee I don’t know what would make these people so mad they would loot can you guys please explain it to me?” Despite your best efforts I don’t think anybody here believes your that stupid. 

I didn't post that. You can think what you want about "the Asian cop".

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From my perspective, and the way I was taught in two different police academies and years of police work (under California law), A police officer (or a citizen) may not use deadly force solely in defe

Im gonna say i dont agree with all of the people saying the United States is full of inequality. I have 5 friends that are a "Minority" and they have awesome careers making over 100 grand a year. Coll

It would be one thing if you had a thick enough skin to see these topics through to the end. But no, you start them and then tattle when you don’t like others responses. That’s the equivalent of the l

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Well that’s what your post comes across as. Nothing more than a poorly concealed plot to stir up some $&@* and have someone else step in it so you can point the finger at them and act innocent. 

9 minutes ago, Dakota Slim said:

I didn't post that. You can think what you want about "the Asian cop".

 

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Cops who kill men by kneeling on their neck while they beg for their lives should be executed.

The cops who do nothing and facilitate the murder should do hard time in State prisons in GP.

Looters and arsonists should be held accountable for their actions too.

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On 5/28/2020 at 6:25 PM, Dakota Slim said:

How can people use anything for an excuse to riot, loot and burn down property that had nothing to do with anything. I believe someone was killed in the chaos and several others were injured.


Any thoughts? 

Excuse me Slim. But IMHO Chris paraphrases it pretty well. 

You say you don't get it. You ask for opinions. And if they disagree with yours you get hurt and want to argue.

You posted this thread to start crap. You got it. Now you will play the victim.

It is just you doing what you do.

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seriously Slim, you complain more than anyone, as far as I know, when topics start to stray into politics or something that you don’t agree with. Then you make a post like this trying to make it seem your looking for an intelligent conversation when you know exactly where it’s headed.  you’ll even help nudge a few loose rocks down the hill to help the land slide get started. You need a new hobby man this one is getting old. 

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Posted (edited)

It would be one thing if you had a thick enough skin to see these topics through to the end. But no, you start them and then tattle when you don’t like others responses. That’s the equivalent of the little kid in school who loves playing the game when he’s winning but as soon as he’s behind he starts throwing a tantrum and doesn’t want to play anymore and says everyone else is cheating. 

Edited by Caliche Chris
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There is more to this than meets the eye. The cop and the guy he was killing both worked as bouncers for the same club for years just two blocks from the Third Precinct building.

I don't know all the facts but the more I do understand the more it looks like bad blood and murder.

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4 minutes ago, clay said:

There is more to this than meets the eye. The cop and the guy he was killing both worked as bouncers for the same club for years just two blocks from the Third Precinct building.

I don't know all the facts but the more I do understand the more it looks like bad blood and murder.

Thanks Clay. 

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Posted (edited)

I’d like to ad that I have no I’ll will toward you Slim or mean you any disrespect. I feel I owe you a certain amount of respect just because of the amount of time on this planet you’ve had compared to mine. That being said some of your inflammatory  posts and the way you reply and speak to people does become very tiresome. What I mean by that is that your posts seem less like discussions and more like places where you post your opinion and high five anyone who agrees with you and ignore the people who don’t. That’s not a discussion 

Edited by Caliche Chris
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23 minutes ago, clay said:

There is more to this than meets the eye. The cop and the guy he was killing both worked as bouncers for the same club for years just two blocks from the Third Precinct building.

I don't know all the facts but the more I do understand the more it looks like bad blood and murder.

I agree.

It looks like murder to a whole lot of people. 

And it looks like those other cops standing there are at the very least accessories to murder.

 

 

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29 minutes ago, Caliche Chris said:

It would be one thing if you had a thick enough skin to see these topics through to the end. But no, you start them and then tattle when you don’t like others responses. That’s the equivalent of the little kid in school who loves playing the game when he’s winning but as soon as he’s behind he starts throwing a tantrum and doesn’t want to play anymore and says everyone else is cheating. 

I don't reply to personal attacks if that's what you mean. 

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12 minutes ago, Dakota Slim said:

I don't reply to personal attacks if that's what you mean. 

That’s not what I mean. To me calling someone out if you think they’re out of line is not a “personal attack” 

that makes it sound like calling your buddy out when he’s being a knucklehead is a personal attack too, and it’s not. 

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If you disagreed with any of my posts, or even vehemently told me how wrong you thought I was about them. I would not feel “personally attacked”

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3 hours ago, Dakota Slim said:

What makes you say that "everyone knows what THESE officers did was wrong"?
I saw VIDEO EVIDENCE that what ONE officer did was wrong. What evidence do you have for the others?
HOW MANY others?

If any of the officers were aware of the knee/neck situation and didn't try to stop it, IMO that officer is wrong for standing by and doing nothing. One of the many things that bothers me about this disgustingly tragic episode, is the lack of apparent training and supervision on the part of the police. Who's call was it? The responding officer should normally be in charge and responsible unless a supervisor is present at the scene. 

Who was the senior officer at the scene? The senior officer should have taken over and intervened to stop the use of the knee against the neck. (except in this case, the senior officer was probably the one committing the unauthorized use of force) Any officer could have stopped it but apparently no one (in uniform), tried to.

Where was the training and discipline that is expected of a professional police officer in today's society? Why was there an apparent lack of even a most basic CYA/PR concern by the police regarding the optics of kneeling on a black man's neck, in front of video cameras, especially when a black man is begging for his life? (it shouldn't have been done in private either) but to do something like that in a public setting is mind boggling to say the least. IMO, there is no evidence at this point, that racism had anything to do with it. This wasn't the Deep South of the past, (and I am aware that there is no regional monopoly on racism) but I don't think you can use racism as an explanation or as blame for stupidity, ignorance and lack of training and disciplinary deficiencies. (or for the inefficiencies, vulnerabilities, and weaknesses of the leadership of the police department and city administration)

I think the cop was dumb as dirt and shouldn't have been wearing the uniform to begin with. His demeanor on the video shows him acting like he doesn't think he's doing anything wrong. He may even try an insanity defense! 

Based on what I saw in the video, the cause of death wasn't asphyxiation due to blockage of the carotid artery. Typically, these types of cases have multiple contributing factors, such as health of the decedent; heart disease or condition, alcohol or drug content in the body, etc. That's one reason a toxicology report usually has a bearing on the charging elements and knowing what is valid and provable against a suspect in a court of law. In this case, it appears that the DA's office didn't have time to wait for the toxicology report to come back due to the social upheaval in the community. The combined weight/ restraint of the other officers may have contributed to the death but it's unlikely that the knee in the neck alone was the cause, IMO.

The whole thing just makes me sick but IMO,  it's not because "the police are out of control" per se. It's because the police department of Minneapolis was not in control.

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1 hour ago, Caliche Chris said:

I’d like to ad that I have no I’ll will toward you Slim or mean you any disrespect. I feel I owe you a certain amount of respect just because of the amount of time on this planet you’ve had compared to mine. That being said some of your inflammatory  posts and the way you reply and speak to people does become very tiresome. What I mean by that is that your posts seem less like discussions and more like places where you post your opinion and high five anyone who agrees with you and ignore the people who don’t. That’s not a discussion 

Yeah, Chris, I feel your pain, but IMO, that goes on across the board on more than one side. It's competitive differences of opinion among members. And some posts are obviously more provocative and controversial than others, I agree. But many here on the forum find it to be a stimulating diversion compared to crickets, and the Admin allows it, (up to a point) :)

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Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, BMc said:

If any of the officers were aware of the knee/neck situation and didn't try to stop it, IMO that officer is wrong for standing by and doing nothing. One of the many things that bothers me about this disgustingly tragic episode, is the lack of apparent training and supervision on the part of the police. Who's call was it? The responding officer should normally be in charge and responsible unless a supervisor is present at the scene. 

Who was the senior officer at the scene? The senior officer should have taken over and intervened to stop the use of the knee against the neck. (except in this case, the senior officer was probably the one committing the unauthorized use of force) Any officer could have stopped it but apparently no one (in uniform), tried to.

Where was the training and discipline that is expected of a professional police officer in today's society? Why was there an apparent lack of even a most basic CYA/PR concern by the police regarding the optics of kneeling on a black man's neck, in front of video cameras, especially when a black man is begging for his life? (it shouldn't have been done in private either) but to do something like that in a public setting is mind boggling to say the least. IMO, there is no evidence at this point, that racism had anything to do with it. This wasn't the Deep South of the past, (and I am aware that there is no regional monopoly on racism) but I don't think you can use racism as an explanation or as blame for stupidity, ignorance and lack of training and disciplinary deficiencies. (or for the inefficiencies, vulnerabilities, and weaknesses of the leadership of the police department and city administration)

I think the cop was dumb as dirt and shouldn't have been wearing the uniform to begin with. His demeanor on the video shows him acting like he doesn't think he's doing anything wrong. He may even try an insanity defense! 

Based on what I saw in the video, the cause of death wasn't asphyxiation due to blockage of the carotid artery. Typically, these types of cases have multiple contributing factors, such as health of the decedent; heart disease or condition, alcohol or drug content in the body, etc. That's one reason a toxicology report usually has a bearing on the charging elements and knowing what is valid and provable against a suspect in a court of law. In this case, it appears that the DA's office didn't have time to wait for the toxicology report to come back due to the social upheaval in the community. The combined weight/ restraint of the other officers may have contributed to the death but it's unlikely that the knee in the neck alone was the cause, IMO.

The whole thing just makes me sick but IMO,  it's not because "the police are out of control" per se. It's because the police department of Minneapolis was not in control

The whole thing makes everyone sick. This is one isolated case in Minneapolis. For all we know, all the officers in that precinct knew George Floyd and had it in for him. Maybe none did. I certainly agree that any of them who knew what Chauven was doing with his knee should have known it could be fatal and should have stepped in.
The bottom line is George Floyd is dead and his killer(s) face charges but the chaos and anarchy that continues is a crime in progress.
We (MOST Americans) surely agree that the chaos and anarchy must end. I say MOST Americans because the agitators will continue until they are stopped. Other innocent people will be hurt and more property will be destroyed and if the agitators are not brought to justice the next person killed by police will lead to more of the same. 

Edited by Dakota Slim
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2 hours ago, Caliche Chris said:

Slim what about the Asian cop who was more concerned with looking tough and proving that he wouldn’t flinch than he was with checking to see if what all those people were screaming was true? I don’t know how you complain about other people stirring the pot so much and then make a post like this. “Gee I don’t know what would make these people so mad they would loot can you guys please explain it to me?” Despite your best efforts I don’t think anybody here believes your that stupid. 

I guess I must be stupid too then. Personally, I never did see the cause and effect relationship/justification between being outraged about police misconduct and violence against innocent people, and unrestrained looting and arson. Lots of minority owned businesses get destroyed as well. Much of it done by outside instigators and ANTIFA terrorist types bent on creating chaos, violent societal revolution, and race wars.

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Slim,

 In your initial post you asked, "How can people use anything for an excuse to riot, loot and burn down property that had nothing to do with anything?"

In my experience people don't generally riot when their utility rates increase, or when their neighbor has a bbq and does not invite them to the party, or even when politicians are caught with their hand in the cookie jar....  This murder is an affront to the decency of all who have seen the video.  Way past anything.

 It seems most of the posts have acknowledged the truth of each others position, the cop who kneeled for several minutes on the neck of a handcuffed man prone on the street seemingly oblivious to his cries for mercy or assistance, the other cops who either participated in the  excessively forceful restraint of the man, or did nothing to intervene and prevent a tragic and unwarranted death are all guilty of using excessive force under the color of authority.

I don't know if more training would have changed the outcome, but common sense says that was all wrong.  As someone said before, you would not treat a dog like that.  Maybe the "prudent man test" is all that is needed to end the debate.

Yes the looting is a crime in progress, lots of white youngsters participating.  For many it is an opportunity to get some free stuff and have their few minutes of fame.  Criminal, senseless and sad.  The consequences will be far reaching and play out over a long time.

Jeff

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1 hour ago, Caliche Chris said:

I’d like to ad that I have no I’ll will toward you Slim or mean you any disrespect. I feel I owe you a certain amount of respect just because of the amount of time on this planet you’ve had compared to mine. That being said some of your inflammatory  posts and the way you reply and speak to people does become very tiresome. What I mean by that is that your posts seem less like discussions and more like places where you post your opinion and high five anyone who agrees with you and ignore the people who don’t. That’s not a discussion 

Slim what about the Asian cop who was more concerned with looking tough and proving that he wouldn’t flinch than he was with checking to see if what all those people were screaming was true? I don’t know how you complain about other people stirring the pot so much and then make a post like this. “Gee I don’t know what would make these people so mad they would loot can you guys please explain it to me?” Despite your best efforts I don’t think anybody here believes your that stupid. 

I do.

Caliche Chris reacted to this
"I do."
 
Chris, this is your reaction to Bob's response . . .  ?? High five as well seems to me, and why not? 
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43 minutes ago, BMc said:

Yeah, Chris, I feel your pain, but IMO, that goes on across the board on more than one side. It's competitive differences of opinion among members. And some posts are obviously more provocative and controversial than others, I agree. But many here on the forum find it to be a stimulating diversion compared to crickets, and the Admin allows it, (up to a point) :)

I enjoy those topics too Mac, Did you think I was suggesting that we shouldn’t discuss anything that might be controversial? I was taking issue with the fact that the person who consistently complains the most to admins about topics getting off track or too involved in politics has created another post, that is from the beginning being nudged in that same direction. 

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20 minutes ago, BMc said:

I guess I must be stupid too then. Personally, I never did see the cause and effect relationship/justification between being outraged about police misconduct and violence against innocent people, and unrestrained looting and arson. Lots of minority owned businesses get destroyed as well. Much of it done by outside instigators and ANTIFA terrorist types bent on creating chaos, violent societal revolution, and race wars.

I appreciate your honesty here Mac 

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8 minutes ago, BMc said:

Slim what about the Asian cop who was more concerned with looking tough and proving that he wouldn’t flinch than he was with checking to see if what all those people were screaming was true? I don’t know how you complain about other people stirring the pot so much and then make a post like this. “Gee I don’t know what would make these people so mad they would loot can you guys please explain it to me?” Despite your best efforts I don’t think anybody here believes your that stupid. 

I do.

Caliche Chris reacted to this
"I do."
 
Chris, this is your reaction to Bob's response . . .  ?? High five as well seems to me, and why not? 

Not even close Mac, I rarely say anything on here, the person I called out has a history of doing it repeatedly. You found one post where I laughed at a response someone made and you think it’s similar to  consistently ignoring or writing off any response that doesn’t agree with me? Apples and oranges man

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11 minutes ago, pairadiceau said:

Slim,

 In your initial post you asked, "How can people use anything for an excuse to riot, loot and burn down property that had nothing to do with anything?"

In my experience people don't generally riot when their utility rates increase, or when their neighbor has a bbq and does not invite them to the party, or even when politicians are caught with their hand in the cookie jar....  This murder is an affront to the decency of all who have seen the video.  Way past anything.

 It seems most of the posts have acknowledged the truth of each others position, the cop who kneeled for several minutes on the neck of a handcuffed man prone on the street seemingly oblivious to his cries for mercy or assistance, the other cops who either participated in the  excessively forceful restraint of the man, or did nothing to intervene and prevent a tragic and unwarranted death are all guilty of using excessive force under the color of authority.

I don't know if more training would have changed the outcome, but common sense says that was all wrong.  As someone said before, you would not treat a dog like that.  Maybe the "prudent man test" is all that is needed to end the debate.

Yes the looting is a crime in progress, lots of white youngsters participating.  For many it is an opportunity to get some free stuff and have their few minutes of fame.  Criminal, senseless and sad.  The consequences will be far reaching and play out over a long time.

Jeff

Hi Jeff. I guess we disagree. In my opinion there is no excuse to riot, loot and burn down property. We have laws in this country. 

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