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1 minute ago, BMc said:

Socio-Economic deprivation has been used as an excuse for criminal behavior for many decades and billions of dollars has been thrown at it. There are more social welfare programs today than ever existed in any society in history. Even in the current food shortage situation, food banks and food sources are available to those in need that seek them out. Many very Liberal criminal justice system reforms instituted in recent years do not appear to decrease this type of social behavior either.

Given the opportunities and support systems available to those who seek them in this country, at some point, (long past), a civilized society has a right to expect it's members to transcend and rise above social conditions and perceived limitations, putting aside excuses, and be held accountable for their behavior. 

It's that old adage "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink."
At some point, people need to become (and held) responsible for their own actions. 

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4 minutes ago, Bedrock Bob said:

What crimes did they commit? Where?

Can you back that up with any sources?

Google it bh...er bob. I know you can.

Edited by Dakota Slim
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16 minutes ago, Bedrock Bob said:

Great ideas!

People just want to have equal opportunity.

A guaranteed two years of college or trade school is a minimum education these days and should be free at a State University.

Fixing the justice system is a huge undertaking but should be job number one. This is a major problem that has been neglected for years.

Placing an appropriate tax burden on the super rich and raising the minimum wage to a reasonable level would eliminate a bunch of problems.

And making basic health care a right and eliminating insurance companies from basic health needs is necessary too.

Good solutions have been suggested that will make a lot of difference in our sustainability and security as a country. The mega wealthy will have to foot the bill and they are spending mega bucks to keep these ideas from coming to fruition.

The virus, the economic situation and the social unrest will force big changes. It will be a conflict between classes and not races. That is becoming more evident each day and as this economic situation sinks in it will be even more clear.

We will either get equality or be ruled by the wealthy and powerful in a way that we have never seen. Before we get there we are going to have a lot of painful times.

I don't see any easy way out of this. My gut feeling is that life as we knew it before Jan. 1, 2020 will never be the same in many respects.

We have an election down the road. Just let your mind wander over how that will affect the three big issues facing the country today. There are only two options and both of them have some serious implications for social unrest, economic concerns and health issues. Neither have given much indication that they have a plan. Without leadership at the top the calculus gets funky and things slide sideways easily. I don't see any real solutions on the horizon.

Wash your hands. Wear a mask. Grow a garden. Love each other and your neighbors. Gather your loved ones close and position yourselves so you can best weather the storm that is yet to come. Because you haven't seen nothin' yet.

Socialism is not the answer. It's been repeatedly tried all over the world and failed. People cannot be made equal by destroying the country's economic system. There will always be economic disparity, no matter who is "at the top" because it's not about the money. Not even close.

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14 minutes ago, BMc said:

Socio-Economic deprivation has been used as an excuse for criminal behavior for many decades and billions of dollars has been thrown at it. There are more social welfare programs today than ever existed in any society in history. Even in the current food shortage situation, food banks and food sources are available to those in need that seek them out. Many very Liberal criminal justice system reforms instituted in recent years do not appear to decrease this type of social behavior either.

Given the opportunities and support systems available to those who seek them in this country, at some point, (long past), a civilized society has a right to expect it's members to transcend and rise above social conditions and perceived limitations, putting aside excuses, and be held accountable for their behavior. 

The classic excuse from a priveledged point of view. Completely out of touch with what is going on in our communities today. Factually and conceptually devoid in every respect.

What you "believe" and what is actually the reality in many communities is completely opposite. And with the added pressure of disease, economic depression and social unrest the gap is even wider.

Join the human race Mac. Outside the insulated bubble of priveledge things are much different. I realize how it is easy for you to imagine how life is for others. But your imagination is shooting high and right a few clicks.

Wisdom comes with age and experience. If you start now there may still be time to learn what it really means to be American.

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32 minutes ago, BMc said:

CORONER'S FINDING: Official finding by the Hennipin Co. Corner's office in the Floyd case is Homicide. (Death at the hands of another) That will be expert witness testimony in any trial against defendant(s) charged with Murder (unlawful killing of a human being) Theoretically rules out all other causes; accidental, natural, etc. Step one in backing up the DA's Murder 3/Man 2 filing.  

That may be the good news but that finding will no doubt come under attack by experts from the defense side. Pathologist Baden, who reportedly is helping Floyd's family, may be the tie breaker, if it came to that, because he will likely be the most credible witness.

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24 minutes ago, BMc said:

Socio-Economic deprivation has been used as an excuse for criminal behavior for many decades and billions of dollars has been thrown at it. There are more social welfare programs today than ever existed in any society in history. Even in the current food shortage situation, food banks and food sources are available to those in need that seek them out. Many very Liberal criminal justice system reforms instituted in recent years do not appear to decrease this type of social behavior either.

Given the opportunities and support systems available to those who seek them in this country, at some point, (long past), a civilized society has a right to expect it's members to transcend and rise above social conditions and perceived limitations, putting aside excuses, and be held accountable for their behavior. 

But nothing 'we do' for them will change the way some people view the color of their skin.  That's part of the greater issue here.

In addition, if those programs were properly funded and the money used in an intelligent, logical, modern fashion.  Positive results could be amplified.

Based on what I know about the job situation here in America, and not just since Covid19.  I don't believe there's an abundance of jobs that pay living wages that are going unfilled.  If there are, they most likely require some education and possibly relocation.  There's got to be a few 'in the hood' who would jump on the chance to go to school and get the hell away from their current/previous surroundings.  People want to work.  But they also want to do more than just barely survive.

I agree, there are lazy people no matter what.  There are plenty of welfare recipients of all races.  We need to reduce those numbers and convert them to taxpayers.

The point of it all is to keep them out of the criminal justice system to begin with.  :pop:

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14 minutes ago, Dakota Slim said:

It's that old adage "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink."
At some point, people need to become (and held) responsible for their own actions. 

Thanks for the translation Slim! :) I was using social worker language so the social workers, (and revolutionaries, if any) could understand what I was saying.

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9 minutes ago, BMc said:

Socialism is not the answer. It's been repeatedly tried all over the world and failed. People cannot be made equal by destroying the country's economic system. There will always be economic disparity, no matter who is "at the top" because it's not about the money. Not even close.

The things I described are not Socialism.

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4 minutes ago, LukeJ said:

But nothing 'we do' for them will change the way some people view the color of their skin.  That's part of the greater issue here.

In addition, if those programs were properly funded and the money used in an intelligent, logical, modern fashion.  Positive results could be amplified.

Based on what I know about the job situation here in America, and not just since Covid19.  I don't believe there's an abundance of jobs that pay living wages that are going unfilled.

I agree, there are lazy people no matter what.  There are plenty of welfare recipients of all races.  We need to reduce those numbers and switch them to taxpayers.

I wasn't talking about "lazy people", so much as personal and cultural, motivational belief systems, predominantly in the black community, IMO.  More on Afro-American Psychology later. If you will bear with me, please.

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17 minutes ago, BMc said:

That may be the good news but that finding will no doubt come under attack by experts from the defense side. Pathologist Baden, who reportedly is helping Floyd's family, may be the tie breaker, if it came to that, because he will likely be the most credible witness.

He says axphyxiation from compression to the neck and back. Also no underlying conditions that would have contributed to his death. 

It looks like it was a pale white man's wisdom on "Afro-American" psychology that killed him. That and a knee to his neck for 8 minutes and 46 seconds.

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30 minutes ago, Bedrock Bob said:

What crimes did they commit? Where?

Can you back that up with any sources?

Here's one article about FOUR of seven sex offenders who were arrested shortly after being released....
https://www.foxnews.com/us/sex-offender-sprung-from-california-jail-on-coronavirus-release-arrested-for-indecent-exposure?fbclid=IwAR2v9TvvKN9PBMnd32ROBi8P8oeS3iZfQhuzxs17JbnDLcTqTUzcuwQOPhY

Edited by Dakota Slim
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11 minutes ago, LukeJ said:

But nothing 'we do' for them will change the way some people view the color of their skin.  That's part of the greater issue here.

In addition, if those programs were properly funded and the money used in an intelligent, logical, modern fashion.  Positive results could be amplified.

Based on what I know about the job situation here in America, and not just since Covid19.  I don't believe there's an abundance of jobs that pay living wages that are going unfilled.

I agree, there are lazy people no matter what.  There are plenty of welfare recipients of all races.  We need to reduce those numbers and switch them to taxpayers.

IMO, (based upon my education, training and personal experience) the most important element in the way "some people view the color of their skin" is the way Afro-American's view themselves and their history (slavery), which is an ongoing societal institution in the psyche of (many) black people.  

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4 minutes ago, Dakota Slim said:

Thanks for Googling that for me Slim!

:laught16:

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5 minutes ago, BMc said:

IMO, (based upon my education, training and personal experience) the most important element in the way "some people view the color of their skin" is the way Afro-American's view themselves and their history (slavery), which is an ongoing societal institution in the psyche of (many) black people.  

Just like cowboys and Indians is an ongoing societal institution in yours?

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20 minutes ago, BMc said:

Thanks for the translation Slim! :) I was using social worker language so the social workers, (and revolutionaries, if any) could understand what I was saying.

I think one or more of George Carlin's shows dealt with the evolution of language. 

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22 minutes ago, Bedrock Bob said:

The classic excuse from a privileged point of view. Completely out of touch with what is going on in our communities today. Factually and conceptually devoid in every respect.

What you "believe" and what is actually the reality in many communities is completely opposite. And with the added pressure of disease, economic depression and social unrest the gap is even wider.

Join the human race Mac. Outside the insulated bubble of priveledge things are much different. I realize how it is easy for you to imagine how life is for others. 

Wisdom comes with age and experience. If you start now there may still be time to learn what it really means to be American.

Oh how I wish you knew what you are talking about Bob! I would love to have been born with a silver spoon . . . 

 

13 minutes ago, Bedrock Bob said:

He says axphyxiation from compression to the neck and back. Also no underlying conditions that would have contributed to his death. 

It looks like it was a pale white man's wisdom on "Afro-American" psychology that killed him. That and a knee to his neck for 8 minutes and 46 seconds.

If you start with your own racism Bob, this thread will likely be shut down because of the escalation. I can see your anger and true colors coming out, but before you start screaming, "La Raza Unida", I'll give you a few minutes to catch your breath and calmate.

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10 minutes ago, Bedrock Bob said:

Just like cowboys and Indians is an ongoing societal institution in yours?

Similar in some ways, different in others. I hope you're not intimating an Afro-American Reservation? 

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18 minutes ago, BMc said:

IMO, (based upon my education, training and personal experience) the most important element in the way "some people view the color of their skin" is the way Afro-American's view themselves and their history (slavery), which is an ongoing societal institution in the psyche of (many) black people.  

I do not disagree.

However, they are still Americans and 'our problem'.  Are we just going to try to pretend they don't exist?  That doesn't seem to be going well.

I think education and integration would help.  Integration in the sense that as they become 'owners', their level of maturity and responsibility would increase naturally.

Not getting pulled out of the car and thrown on the ground during a traffic stop would probably help as well.

You'd make poor decisions too if your flight or fight response was always activated.

I've seen some of those videos where the cop is yelling at them and the anxiety level is through the roof.  They want to comply, but make an error and then it all goes bad.

I've been pulled over a few times along the way.  Not once have I ever thought that I might end up dying in the process.

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5 minutes ago, LukeJ said:

I do not disagree.

However, they are still Americans and 'our problem'.  Are we just going to try to pretend they don't exist?  That doesn't seem to be going well.

I think education and integration would help.  Integration in the sense that as they become 'owners', their level of maturity and responsibility would increase naturally.

Not getting pulled out of the car and thrown on the ground during a traffic stop would probably help as well.

You'd make poor decisions too if your flight or fight response was always activated.

I've seen some of those videos where the cop is yelling at them and the anxiety level is through the roof.  They want to comply, but make an error and then it all goes bad.

I've been pulled over a few times along the way.  Not once have I ever thought that I might end up dying in the process.

I do not disagree with many of your good points.

 

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FEDERAL NATIONAL GUARD AND MILITARY MOBILIZED. 

 

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47 minutes ago, BMc said:

Oh how I wish you knew what you are talking about Bob! I would love to have been born with a silver spoon . . . 

 

If you start with your own racism Bob, this thread will likely be shut down because of the escalation. I can see your anger and true colors coming out, but before you start screaming, "La Raza Unida", I'll give you a few minutes to catch your breath and calmate.

You are in some sort of fantasy land Mac. Your assumptions about me are as far off base as your assumptions about our society.

I'll let you know when I get mad, Hispanic or take a job as a social worker. Until then keep shooting in the dark. Maybe you will get lucky.

If anyone is butthurt about the description "pale white man" just let me know and I'll edit it. I wasnt trying to offend anyone. All you gotta do is ask me politely and tell me you would like me to change it. I definitely don't think it is racist but if you do then let me know.

Please tell me why you think it is racist because I just dont see it. But I don't want to offend the pale white man any more than the light skinned Latinos or the dark skinned African Americans. Heaven forbid I offend the coffee and cream mulatto. 

It's just a discussion Mac. You aren't shaking anyone's world with your opinions. They line right up with the party line and we have heard them all before. I disagree with some and I agree with some. Wrestling with you over the part I disagree with is something I enjoy but not something that really makes much difference to me in the course of my day.

You can still pretend though. I can be whatever color you want to imagine. I can be a radical liberal if you want me to be. Or a revolutionary or a social worker. You can visualize me however you want. I don't mind at all.

You don't have to imagine though. If you want to know what reality is I'll tell you. But you will have to ask me politely. 

:)

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1 hour ago, BMc said:

Socialism is not the answer. It's been repeatedly tried all over the world and failed. People cannot be made equal by destroying the country's economic system. There will always be economic disparity, no matter who is "at the top" because it's not about the money. Not even close.

You know much of what Bob described sounds like Germany.  Especially the education and healthcare.

They seem to be doing pretty good these days.

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8 minutes ago, Bedrock Bob said:

You are in some sort of fantasy land Mac. Your assumptions about me are as far off base as your assumptions about our society.

I'll let you know when I get mad, Hispanic or take a job as a social worker. Until then keep shooting in the dark. Maybe you will get lucky.

If anyone is butthurt about the description "pale white man" just let me know and I'll edit it. I wasnt trying to offend anyone. All you gotta do is ask me politely and tell me you would like me to change it.

It's just a discussion Mac. You aren't shaking anyone's world with your opinions. They line right up with the party line and we have heard them all before. I disagree with some and I agree with some. Wrestling with you over the part I disagree with is something I enjoy but not something that really makes much difference to me in the course of my day.

You can still pretend though. I can be whatever color you want to imagine. I can be a radical liberal if you want me to be. Or a revolutionary or a social worker. You can visualize me however you want. I don't mind at all.

You don't have to imagine though. If you want to know what reality is I'll tell you. But you will have to ask me politely. 

:)

Do you have anything to add about the subject matter of this thread?

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1 minute ago, Dakota Slim said:

Do you have anything to add about the subject matter of this thread?

What is the "subject matter" of this thread Slim?

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When the rioting and looting is over. the fires have been put out and George Floyd's killer gets punished it will still be there folks....

 

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