Need your expert advice

[Bawaayce]

Greetings,

I found this while pulling weeds along my fence line.  Not being a rock hound and thinking I had found a hunk of rusted metal I cleaned this up with a wire brush to get a better look at it.  

After review, I could not place the shape and surface structure to any local geological artifact and began looking into other possibilities.  
 

I kindly ask for your assistance reviewing this object to determine its nature.

size ~3” x 1.5” x .5 “

weight 182 grams

Item has a strong attraction to a magnet but is not magnetic itself.

 I can provide more pictures if needed.   
 

Thanks for your assistance,

 

Ken...

[Terry Soloman]

It will be interesting to see the comments on this one. I'm going to say it is terrestrial, but I am certainly no expert. Cool find!

 

[hardtimehermit]

The surface does not have meteorite characteristics, it seems too busy with imprints as opposed to smooth and the way the surface steps down at 90 degrees is not what happens to a rock or iron that passes through the atmosphere. Most likely tramp iron, some form of iron ore from the old days. You could grind a window to see the inside. I would guess by the weight you will find solid iron inside, but that does not mean it's a meteorite yet. If you grind a spot so we can see post a picture and we can talk about the next step. Yea cool find sir.

ht 

[Bawaayce]

Small window on one end (~1cm)

Edited May 25, 2020 by Bawaayce
Adding pic info

[Bedrock Bob]

It is interesting. The finish on it is unusual. I would not rule it out.

It is either a piece of tramp metal or an iron meteorite.

I would polish that face up to a 1500 grit shine and try to get a weidmanstatten pattern. 

 

[hardtimehermit]

13 hours ago, Bawaayce said:

Small window on one end (~1cm)

Nice going on the window, now if you have a Radio Shack near by see if you can get some ferric chloride. It is an etching solution and can be used to etch your iron suspect. This is one cheap way to find out if you have a meteorite. Be careful using this product wear proper protection and be sure to use in a stainless steel sink otherwise you could end up with some stains. What you do is wearing gloves use a brush or even a Q-tip and put some ferric chloride on your exposed smoothly sanded iron, then rinse you should see a pattern or not within a few seconds, if not try adding more. Good luck.

[nugget108]

Radio Shack? Haha are they still around??

[Morlock]

7 hours ago, hardtimehermit said:

Nice going on the window, now if you have a Radio Shack near by see if you can get some ferric chloride. It is an etching solution and can be used to etch your iron suspect. This is one cheap way to find out if you have a meteorite. Be careful using this product wear proper protection and be sure to use in a stainless steel sink otherwise you could end up with some stains. What you do is wearing gloves use a brush or even a Q-tip and put some ferric chloride on your exposed smoothly sanded iron, then rinse you should see a pattern or not within a few seconds, if not try adding more. Good luck.

Good advice. Even if you don't see any pattern it doesn't mean it couldn't be a meteorite. It's possible the pattern is too large and therefore wouldn't necessarily show up in such a small window.

That's an intriguing looking piece and I'm curious to see what the result is.

 

[hardtimehermit]

2 hours ago, nugget108 said:

Radio Shack? Haha are they still around??

I know Dan, i meant to point that out, but just being hopeful here for the good lad seems to have a decent meteorite suspect. At least we are not talking about sedimentary meteorites from Mars 

[Morlock]

If you don't have a Radio Shack around you, it can be obtained on eBay for about $20.00.

[Bedrock Bob]

44 minutes ago, hardtimehermit said:

I know Dan, i meant to point that out, but just being hopeful here for the good lad seems to have a decent meteorite suspect. At least we are not talking about sedimentary meteorites from Mars 

I kinda like those guys with bolide fever. 

Experience and observations identify meteorites and wrongs. The same with meteorite hunters.

[Bawaayce]

2 hours ago, Morlock said:

If you don't have a Radio Shack around you, it can be obtained on eBay for about $20.00.

I have the gear and chemicals to make ferric acid so I should have results in a day or so

[Morlock]

59 minutes ago, Bawaayce said:

I have the gear and chemicals to make ferric acid so I should have results in a day or so.

Keep us informed. Inquiring minds want to know.

[Mikestang]

2 hours ago, Bawaayce said:

I have the gear and chemicals to make ferric acid so I should have results in a day or so

There's some tips posted here somewhere on how to etch, but as has been pointed out if the crystal structure is coarse you may not see anything if it is meteoritic.  Interesting find for sure.  Could also take it to an assay shop or somewhere with XRF and shoot that clean surface and look for nickel.

[Morlock]

40 minutes ago, Mikestang said:

There's some tips posted here somewhere on how to etch, but as has been pointed out if the crystal structure is coarse you may not see anything if it is meteoritic.  Interesting find for sure.  Could also take it to an assay shop or somewhere with XRF and shoot that clean surface and look for nickel.

https://nuggetshooter.ipbhost.com/topic/7933-secrets-to-cutting-etching-and-preserving-iron-meteorites

[Bawaayce]

11 hours ago, Morlock said:

Keep us informed. Inquiring minds want to know.

I widened the window a bit and Etched with home brewed ferris chloride.  Looks to be the letter “A”.  It’s faint and does not photograph well, but it seems to be something.
 

 I sanded and etched a number of times to be sure it was not dirt or an artifact of the sanding pattern.  Each time it comes back with the letter A.  Maybe there is a message inside ;)

[Bedrock Bob]

Time to take it to someone who can test it for real. 

You have done about all you can do to rule out tramp iron. You might get an XRF for nickel at this point and that might help get someone interested. It won't rule out tramp metal but it will be one more step you could take on your own.

There is not much more you can do. You need an expert that can take it further with lab tests and professional observations.

The pattern is vague. I can't tell if it is a weidmanstatten pattern. But if you can polish it out and repeat the pattern I would say it is as much confirmation as a layman could do. It certainly could be a coarse octahedrite. 

You did a great job! Someone in the meteorite community will take this one forward and give you some answers. It is certainly an interesting specimen. If it is not a meteorite it is a darn good facsimile.

Have you researched known meteorites in your area? If there have been others found to compare this with it might shorten the process a bit. 

[Bawaayce]

I submitted help from a large state university, and was promptly told this was not a Meteorite.  No explaination was given.  Any ideas as to where one could get a XRF assessment?  I searched via the web and found one which did not seem very trustworthy.

Did some additional etching last night.  There is a "A" type pattern that keeps showing up in differnt areas as well as sizes.  Some seem to grow into larger A's.  Pic are hard since it such a small window.  The A pattern does seem to jive with other iron meteorite Widmanstatten patterns. 

 

Good search on Widmanstatten pattern:

[Mikestang]

54 minutes ago, Bawaayce said:

I submitted help from a large state university, and was promptly told this was not a Meteorite.  No explaination was given. 

 

Which university, and more importantly, which department? 

[Bedrock Bob]

Any construction testing outfit will have an XRF gun. Demolition requires that materials be tested before demolition begins.

Look for materials testing outfits in your area. Any haz mat and abatement contractor can give you a number. Most construction outfits that do demolition of commercial structures can hook you up.

Some pawn shops have them to identify metals. They generally have limited experience and knowledge about how the process works and what the results mean. But if you can't get a professional materials testing lab to do it a pawn broker or gold buyer is a good resource.

The two local materials testing outfits charge $35 per sample if they come to the site. They will often shoot a rock for free if you take it to them. It is an expensive machine but a very quick and easy test. So if you make it no trouble for them it should cost very little.

Most tramp metal contains nickel. So a nickel test is no indication it is a meteorite. But it is a step in the right direction.

I have no idea who you might send that specimen to. There are several on this forum who have those connections. Maybe they will offer some help.

The standard answer is "It is not a meteorite". And my gut feeling is that yours is probably not either. But it is a worthwhile exercise to continue on this path until you are satisfied. So the best of luck! I hope you have found a meteorite but even if you did not the process of identifying it is a valuable learning experience.

Bob

[hardtimehermit]

I'm with Bob, your getting good experience and this will help you move more quickly to get a final answer. It has been my experience that when i put the ferric chloride on a real iron meteorite Canyon Diablo for example, the Widdmanstatten pattern pops right out and there's no guessing. The other thing your iron does not seem to show any inclusions which is not to good when hoping for meteorite. Inclusions meaning things like triolite, or graphite or some other mineral, but your surface looks plain. There is still a chance you have a meteorite, but it gets kinda harder when some important characteristics are not jumping out at us. You have done a good job, and i hope you keep looking.

[Bawaayce]

After some review and learning more about what makes a Meteorite, I think I have a explaination for the plan or non-conforming characteristics.  It goes something like this...

1.  The piece I found is the center or middle section of a somewhat larger meteorite.  Most of the top and bottom are missing and I am left with the burger patty of a once hole hamburger meteorite.  I pursume these broke off early into it's flight with earth's atmosphere.  This center peice became bent when reaching the surface and now supports a slight twist like a thin 8.

Supporting attributes:

A.  The outside rim supports numerious regmaglypts (Figure A.1 | A.2 | A.3 | A.4) 

                                                                                          Figure A.1

 

                                                                                             Figure A.2

 

                                                      Figure A.3

                                                    Figure A.4

 

B.  Flows.  There are a number of flows along the rough edge which would supprt breaking up of the piece before impact (Figure B.1 | B.2 | B.3 | B.4 | B.5)  and could explain the 90 degree shelf alone one side.

                                                                                             Figure B.1

 

                                                                           Figure B.2

 

                               Figure B.3

 

                 Figure B.4 (Close up of B.1)

 

                                  Figure B.5

Edited May 29, 2020 by Bawaayce

[Bawaayce]

8 hours ago, Mikestang said:

Which university, and more importantly, which department? 

UW Madison, WI - Wisconsin Geological and Natural History Survey

[hardtimehermit]

I like the way you presented your theory and good pictures to go with it. The area we spoke about having a steep face 90 degree zone does look similar to a roll over lip. Roll over lip referrers to the shape that can form while the meteorite is traveling through the atmosphere. The thing about the idea of your iron being a piece inside of a larger body of iron, is that it should still have the Widdy pattern. I do know someone in the department at Wisconsin, she is good geologist that we know, i will see if she saw your suspect. Bottom line in my opinion is you have a good example of what a meteorite can look like, but just not quite there. I have found a few pieces i thought were for sure the real deal, but you can't argue with science, at least i don't. Here's a sample of my iron meteor wrongs. 

[Mikestang]

14 hours ago, Bawaayce said:

UW Madison, WI - Wisconsin Geological and Natural History Survey

Most geologists wouldn't know a meteorite if it hit them on the head.  Make sure you talk with a meteorite scientist and not just a geologist.

 

  

14 hours ago, Bawaayce said:

This center peice became bent when reaching the surface and now supports a slight twist like a thin 8.

If this is an iron meteorite, any misshaping of the pieces happened when it exploded and would not have occurred on the ground.  The forces required to bend and twist solid iron are much greater than can be produced by a terminal velocity impact of such a small piece of metal.

Edited May 29, 2020 by Mikestang