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2 hours ago, Bedrock Bob said:

Two different things Slim.

1 - Experimenting with certain drugs for treatment and reporting on it.

Good thing.

2- Using the prospects of certain drugs used for treatment for political and financial motives.

Bad thing.

Are you getting it yet?

Fake News.

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Its been interesting reading this thread. I also believe this country is in trouble but its not the end of the world. Ive spent a ton of time in third world war zones and what always amazed me is I co

Yup all's well that ends (not so) well. We almost pulled out of that nosedive a few times but we finally flew her into that dang mountain of opinions. Good riddance.

Apparently this topic has run it's course and is now locked, no one is really posting any more "Corona Virus Info", most are more concerned in ego conflicts, bashing each other over their political be

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I keep hearing chants about testing. Testing 328 million people is impossible in my humble opinion, especially when you consider people can be free of the virus when tested and become infected 2 minutes after being tested. Maybe there's something we can stick in our noses that lights up if it detects the virus. 

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10 minutes ago, Dakota Slim said:

I keep hearing chants about testing. Testing 328 million people is impossible in my humble opinion, especially when you consider people can be free of the virus when tested and become infected 2 minutes after being tested. Maybe there's something we can stick in our noses that lights up if it detects the virus. 

328 million is a lot.

Maybe if we subtract out 63 million, the task would be a bit more manageable.

:ROFL:

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4 minutes ago, LukeJ said:

328 million is a lot.

Maybe if we subtract out 63 million, the task would be a bit more manageable.

:ROFL:

How would we pick the 63 million Luke?

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41 minutes ago, Dakota Slim said:

I keep hearing chants about testing. Testing 328 million people is impossible in my humble opinion, especially when you consider people can be free of the virus when tested and become infected 2 minutes after being tested. Maybe there's something we can stick in our noses that lights up if it detects the virus. 

That may be your opinion. But it is not the consensus of the medical community nor the government' and.government agencies involved.

We haven't tested nearly as many as most other nations. Per capita or in total. The capacity is there to do exponentially more testing but we are disorganized in the way we are handling it. The Federal Government generally takes the lead on that sort of thing but decided to do it differently this time. States are scrambling to do it themselves and are getting very little help. They are actually competing with the Federal Government for supplies. This has caused a bidding war that makes it much more expensive and difficult to manage. But we should continue to focus on testing despite the lack of central leadership. 

Your idea about something stuck up your nose is nothing short of brilliant.. But until you work the wrinkles out of it my opinion is we should listen to the consensus of the experts. Do keep us posted and let us know if anything lights up though.

Testing is really ramping up in New Mexico. It is still hard to get but not impossible. And the criteria for testing has opened up considerably. This will provide very valuable information for treatment as well as control of the virus.

Testing is recognized as the most valuable tool in the fight today. At least by most people involved in fighting this battle. Whatever is up your nose may be very valuable too. But currently it does not seem to be that significant.

:25r30wi:

Edited by Bedrock Bob
Because the constitution guarantees me that right.
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2 minutes ago, Bedrock Bob said:

That may be your opinion. But it is not the consensus of the medical community nor the government' and.government agencies involved.

We haven't tested nearly as many as most other nations. And the capacity is there to do exponentially more testing. We should continue to focus on that despite the lack of central leadership. 

Your idea about something stuck up your nose is a good one. But until you work the wrinkles out of it my opinion is we should listen to the consensus of the experts. 

Testing is really ramping up in New Mexico. It is still hard to get but not impossible. And the criteria for testing has opened up considerably. This will provide very valuable information for treatment as well as control of the virus.

Testing is recognized as the most valuable tool in the fight today. At least by most people involved in fighting this battle. Whatever is up your nose may be very important too. But currently it does not sseem to be that significant.

:25r30wi:

Is there a consensus of the medical community or the gov.... (oops).
No, I'll stay away from this and stick with my original post. 

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29 minutes ago, Bedrock Bob said:

States are scrambling to do it themselves and are getting very little help. They are actually competing with the Federal Government for supplies. This has caused a bidding war that makes it much more expensive and difficult to manage. But we should continue to focus on testing despite the lack of central leadership.

The Federal government has been helping states, especially California. Governor Newsom was able to acquire 100k swabs in just a few days from the fed that he couldn't get for several weeks elsewhere. He actually praised the help of the feds in his daily briefings last week.

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Yes. After ten weeks of chaos and competing with States for supplies California was able to get a measly 100k q-tips if the Governor praised Trump.

This is what the situation has devolved into. This is exactly why we have 4x more cases than any other country on the planet. This is why we are being hit harder than the rest of the countries in the developed world all combined.

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19 minutes ago, Bedrock Bob said:

Yes. After ten weeks of chaos and competing with States for supplies California was able to get a measly 100k q-tips if the Governor praised Trump.

Your facts are incorrect. I listened to the news conference from Governor Newsom. Obviously you didn't.

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16 minutes ago, Bedrock Bob said:

Yes. After ten weeks of chaos and competing with States for supplies California was able to get a measly 100k q-tips if the Governor praised Trump.

This is what the situation has devolved into. This is exactly why we have 4x more cases than any other country on the planet. This is why we are being hit harder than the rest of the countries in the developed world all combined.

Surprisingly, Gov Newsome is giving credit where credit is due. He has, for the time being at least, appeared to put differences aside and provided positive feedback and support in a very difficult time. Good for Him!  Now if only the chronic complainers out there would do the same! 

 

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1 hour ago, Bedrock Bob said:

That may be your opinion. But it is not the consensus of the medical community nor the government' and.government agencies involved.

We haven't tested nearly as many as most other nations. Per capita or in total. The capacity is there to do exponentially more testing but we are disorganized in the way we are handling it. The Federal Government generally takes the lead on that sort of thing but decided to do it differently this time. States are scrambling to do it themselves and are getting very little help. They are actually competing with the Federal Government for supplies. This has caused a bidding war that makes it much more expensive and difficult to manage. But we should continue to focus on testing despite the lack of central leadership. 

Your idea about something stuck up your nose is nothing short of brilliant.. But until you work the wrinkles out of it my opinion is we should listen to the consensus of the experts. Do keep us posted and let us know if anything lights up though.

Testing is really ramping up in New Mexico. It is still hard to get but not impossible. And the criteria for testing has opened up considerably. This will provide very valuable information for treatment as well as control of the virus.

Testing is recognized as the most valuable tool in the fight today. At least by most people involved in fighting this battle. Whatever is up your nose may be very valuable too. But currently it does not seem to be that significant.

:25r30wi:

The Federal Government generally takes the lead?? 

Ever hear of States Rights? Look it up. Learn whose role it is to protect each state and when, under what circumstances, and how. 

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38 minutes ago, BMc said:

The Federal Government generally takes the lead?? 

Ever hear of States Rights? Look it up. Learn whose role it is to protect each state and when, under what circumstances, and how. 

And then, of course, there is personal responsibility. Most people today know what they "should" be doing to help protect themselves and others from this virus. The federal, state and local governments seem to be having a hard time deciding what people "must" do. 

Edited by Dakota Slim
added local governments
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1 hour ago, Bedrock Bob said:

Yes. After ten weeks of chaos and competing with States for supplies California was able to get a measly 100k q-tips if the Governor praised Trump.

This is what the situation has devolved into. This is exactly why we have 4x more cases than any other country on the planet. This is why we are being hit harder than the rest of the countries in the developed world all combined.

Can you point to the source for any of that Bob? 100,000 q-tips??? CA could have gotten those at Walmart. 
I think the stats at the following site disprove everything you just posted...
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

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On 4/29/2020 at 6:49 PM, Dakota Slim said:

 

If those "q-tips" are the ones for nasal swabs they are anything but q-tips. They are very long so they can shove them as far up your nasal passages as you can stand

and the a bit more…VERY uncomfortable/painful according to some friends who've been tested. They are definitely not q-tips you could have gotten at Walmart.

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25 minutes ago, FlakMagnet said:

 

I had a swab shoved up my nose in January of this year David and I know what you mean. Why do you suppose Bob said "California was able to get a measly 100k q-tips if the Governor praised Trump"?

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27 minutes ago, FlakMagnet said:

If those "q-tips" are the ones for nasal swabs they are anything but q-tips. They are very long so they can shove them as far up your nasal passages as you can stand

and the a bit more…VERY uncomfortable/painful according to some friends who've been tested. They are definitely not q-tips you could have gotten at Walmart.

I agree wholeheartedly!  Very uncomfortable indeed. Look at the size of those Q-tips that these testers are trying to stick up each others noses!

Q-TIPS.PNG

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They are special q-tips. The kind governors must praise Trump to get.

Just like the ventilators from the Feds. They withheld them from New York until Cuomo publicly thanked Trump. And then he had to thank Trump again to get masks and gowns.

The Feds generally handle testing. They standardize and fund it. They provide resources and the States perform the task. That is the way it works and has always worked.

It works that way with all Federal money and resources. Welfare, road funds, unemployment, Medicare, Medicaid, emergency funds, you name it. The Feds organize and fund it and the States perform/distribute.

Except this time. Trump decided to do it a bit differently and it took weeks for States to gear up and backfill the void.They were unprepared to take on the job that the Feds had traditionally done.

Meanwhile the Feds competed against the States for equipment and consumables.  The bidding war drove the prices sky high and made it much more expensive than it needed to be. And then when States need swabs or testing reagents they must give praise to access the Federal stockpile.

Think about it. If it is the States job to do testing why are the feds in a bidding war against them for swabs? Who are the feds going to use those swabs on if not the citizens? Why is there a federal stockpile if not to supply the States????

As the virus spreads more States will need supplies and will be commenting how great the Feds have cooperated. That is the price they will have to pay.

Then when someone mentions what a poor job the Feds are doing one of their followers can point out how someone praised the Feds for some desperately needed supplies. Then some other brainwashed adherent can explain how it is the States job anyway. And how all those swabs bought with taxpayer money belong to the Feds and not to the States. :nutty:

It is quid pro quo. You say good words about me and I will give you swabs bought with taxpayer money at inflated prices to help fight the pandemic.

 This is EXACTLY the game that is being played and Governors across the country on both sides of the aisle have made it clear what is going on.

We need to exponentially expand testing to safely reopen the country. They are pushing to reopen before testing is sufficiently expanded. And withholding materials to expand testing for political favors. It is a dirty dishonest racket using taxpayers money.

Just like using taxpayer money to fund campaign appearances labeled as daily briefings. 

It is dirty dealing. There is no other way to slice it. It is costing lives, money and making this thing much worse than it needs to be.

 

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4 minutes ago, Bedrock Bob said:

They are special q-tips. The kind governors must praise Trump to get.

Just like the ventilators from the Feds. They withheld them from New York until Cuomo thanked Trump. And then he had to thank Trump again to get masks and gowns.

The Feds generally handle testing. They standardize and fund it. The States perform it. That is the way it works and has always worked. It works that way with all Federal money and resources. Welfare, road funds, unemployment, you name it. The Feds organize and fund it and the States perform/distribute.

Except this time. Trump decided to do it a bit differently and it took weeks for States to gear up and backfill the void.They were unprepared to take on the job that the Feds had traditionally done.

Meanwhile the Feds competed against the States for equipment and consumables.  The bidding war drove the prices sky high and made it much more expensive than it needed to be. And then when States need swabs or testing reagents they must give praise to access the Federal stockpile.

It is a lot more expensive for us taxpayers but it does get the administration some good press. And that is what they need in these trying times.

As the virus spreads more States will need supplies and will be commenting how great the Feds have cooperated.

Then when someone mentions what a poor job the Feds are doing one of their followers can point out how someone praised the Feds for some desperately needed supplies. Then some other brainwashed adherent can explain how it is the States job anyway. And how all those swabs bought with taxpayer money belong to the Feds and not to the States who have been tasked with doing their own testing.

It is quid pro quo. You say good words about me and I will give you swabs bought with taxpayer money at inflated prices to help fight the pandemic.

 This is EXACTLY the game that is being played and Governors across the country on both sides of the aisle have made it clear what is going on.

We need to exponentially expand testing to safely reopen the country. They are pushing to reopen before testing is sufficiently expanded. And withholding materials to expand testing for political favors. It is a dirty dishonest racket using taxpayers money.

Just like using taxpayer money to fund campaign appearances labeled as daily briefings. 

Dirty dealing man. There is no other way to slice it. It is costing lives and making this thing much worse than it needs to be.

 

"Just like the ventilators from the Feds. They withheld them from New York until Cuomo thanked Trump" 

And why were the ventilators withheld? Because Cuomo (admittedly) wanted tens of thousands more than the state of NY needed or could use. Everybody knows that. Enough with the overt political argument Bob, that's obviously out of bounds and I'm not going down that road with you, and you're not going to play that game with me, (so you can just go play by/with your self!) :25r30wi:

 In closing, here's one of your favorite silly emoji chingaderas that you seem to think is so funny. Man, I swear. Grade school would be higher education compared to this stuff.

 

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Bob,

I hope you are staying well in your beautiful state, and continuing to make cool critters.  

I am in California and like most of the world many things here have changed dramatically.  I went to my friends restaurant today to join him for lunch, for the first time in a month.  His place is gigantic, ten K sq. feet on two levels.  They shut down weeks ago and let all of the hourly people go which was very tough and remained completely closed for a few weeks.  About ten days ago they opened up to provide take out only using only salaried staff, the GM is taking orders and running food, the VP is cleaning and cooking and the place looks like a ghost town, the menu is very limited but the food they are providing is first quality and well received.  Interestingly the state has relaxed the rules dealing with alcohol sales and they are selling pitchers of margaritas and beer for off site consumption, something never allowed before this crisis. They all are wearing masks and gloves and doing their best to comply with best practices advice.  It was great to have a killer burger and see people doing their best during difficult times....   

Off subject but it is better to ask for forgiveness than wait for permission sometimes....

As to the supply shortages, yes, they exist.  I think tho, to attribute all of the problems to one person is going a bit far.  The Federal government is an enormous and ungainly organization, or disorganization as the case may be. There is a multitude of departments within which operate with a large degree of autonomy.  Department heads do not have to wait for an order from one man to commence operations, distribute supplies, and coordinate efforts.  Another branch has been less than cooperative with the executive branch prior to and throughout this pandemic.  I have seen governors interact with the president in cordial conversations and to suggest that the president only provides assistance to executives who are being laudatory is not a supportable position, unless of course clear evidence can be presented.  I suspect that if the prior top executive were still in office the preparation and response to the crisis would have been very problematic as well and the constant vitriolic media coverage simply would not happen, also as someone mentioned the individual states have a responsibility to have appropriate emergency management plans in place to deal with disasters.  If anyone believes that the not to be mentioned official is so venal and of such a low character as that, then we have much to repair as a nation.   

Stay safe people,

Jeff

 

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1 hour ago, Bedrock Bob said:

They are special q-tips. The kind governors must praise Trump to get.

Just like the ventilators from the Feds. They withheld them from New York until Cuomo publicly thanked Trump. And then he had to thank Trump again to get masks and gowns.

The Feds generally handle testing. They standardize and fund it. They provide resources and the States perform the task. That is the way it works and has always worked.

It works that way with all Federal money and resources. Welfare, road funds, unemployment, Medicare, Medicaid, emergency funds, you name it. The Feds organize and fund it and the States perform/distribute.

Except this time. Trump decided to do it a bit differently and it took weeks for States to gear up and backfill the void.They were unprepared to take on the job that the Feds had traditionally done.

Meanwhile the Feds competed against the States for equipment and consumables.  The bidding war drove the prices sky high and made it much more expensive than it needed to be. And then when States need swabs or testing reagents they must give praise to access the Federal stockpile.

Think about it. If it is the States job to do testing why are the feds in a bidding war against them for swabs? Who are the feds going to use those swabs on if not the citizens? Why is there a federal stockpile if not to supply the States????

As the virus spreads more States will need supplies and will be commenting how great the Feds have cooperated. That is the price they will have to pay.

Then when someone mentions what a poor job the Feds are doing one of their followers can point out how someone praised the Feds for some desperately needed supplies. Then some other brainwashed adherent can explain how it is the States job anyway. And how all those swabs bought with taxpayer money belong to the Feds and not to the States. :nutty:

It is quid pro quo. You say good words about me and I will give you swabs bought with taxpayer money at inflated prices to help fight the pandemic.

 This is EXACTLY the game that is being played and Governors across the country on both sides of the aisle have made it clear what is going on.

We need to exponentially expand testing to safely reopen the country. They are pushing to reopen before testing is sufficiently expanded. And withholding materials to expand testing for political favors. It is a dirty dishonest racket using taxpayers money.

Just like using taxpayer money to fund campaign appearances labeled as daily briefings. 

It is dirty dealing. There is no other way to slice it. It is costing lives, money and making this thing much worse than it needs to be.

 

Yep, all that dirty dealing. It just keeps on getting deeper and deeper. :Diggin_a_hole:

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5 hours ago, pairadiceau said:

Bob,

I hope you are staying well in your beautiful state, and continuing to make cool critters.  

I am in California and like most of the world many things here have changed dramatically.  I went to my friends restaurant today to join him for lunch, for the first time in a month.  His place is gigantic, ten K sq. feet on two levels.  They shut down weeks ago and let all of the hourly people go which was very tough and remained completely closed for a few weeks.  About ten days ago they opened up to provide take out only using only salaried staff, the GM is taking orders and running food, the VP is cleaning and cooking and the place looks like a ghost town, the menu is very limited but the food they are providing is first quality and well received.  Interestingly the state has relaxed the rules dealing with alcohol sales and they are selling pitchers of margaritas and beer for off site consumption, something never allowed before this crisis. They all are wearing masks and gloves and doing their best to comply with best practices advice.  It was great to have a killer burger and see people doing their best during difficult times....   

Off subject but it is better to ask for forgiveness than wait for permission sometimes....

As to the supply shortages, yes, they exist.  I think tho, to attribute all of the problems to one person is going a bit far.  The Federal government is an enormous and ungainly organization, or disorganization as the case may be. There is a multitude of departments within which operate with a large degree of autonomy.  Department heads do not have to wait for an order from one man to commence operations, distribute supplies, and coordinate efforts.  Another branch has been less than cooperative with the executive branch prior to and throughout this pandemic.  I have seen governors interact with the president in cordial conversations and to suggest that the president only provides assistance to executives who are being laudatory is not a supportable position, unless of course clear evidence can be presented.  I suspect that if the prior top executive were still in office the preparation and response to the crisis would have been very problematic as well and the constant vitriolic media coverage simply would not happen, also as someone mentioned the individual states have a responsibility to have appropriate emergency management plans in place to deal with disasters.  If anyone believes that the not to be mentioned official is so venal and of such a low character as that, then we have much to repair as a nation.   

Stay safe people,

Jeff

 

That's beautiful Jeff! Almost brought tears to my eyes. Don't know what you do out there in cool So. Cal, but I think you may have missed your calling unless your working for the Diplomat Corps. On the other hand . . . much to repair indeed. :) 

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10 hours ago, BMc said:

Surprisingly, Gov Newsome is giving credit where credit is due. He has, for the time being at least, appeared to put differences aside and provided positive feedback and support in a very difficult time. Good for Him!  Now if only the chronic complainers out there would do the same! 

 

Wow Bmc, so credit has been given where it is do, you speak of our president of course, but getting tested is very important why do you call some people chronic complainers? You make it clear you feel we are in good hands. I hope you are right because so far this war against the virus has killed more Americans than the Vietnam War.

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Here is my take from White Plains, New York, where my wife is a nurse (R.N., B.S.N.) at White Plains Hospital. I also worked at the hospital as a Respiratory Therapy Technician (L.R.T.), for over 10-years before retiring. The virus kills people that are over 50, are obese, have lung illnesses like asthma and COPD, have Leukemia, heart disease, Diabetes, or any other number of risk factors.

The vast majority of patients being treated and dying in Westchester County, New York, are illegal aliens, or undocumented workers, of Hispanic decent. In New York City, the story was much the same, mixed with elderly immigrants from Haiti, the Dominican Republic, and other Caribbean islands.

Folks in the rest of the Country can't understand how dense the living conditions are for many of these paycheck-to-paycheck illegals are. Six to a studio apartment is normal, and they do not quarantine, they just keep working or whatever.

Hospitals here in New York were NEVER overrun. There is a Nurse's Union in New York City hospitals, that shamelessly tried to use the crisis to get leverage by saying the did not have proper PPE, and were being overworked. Pure deception. Some City hospitals WERE in bad shape, because the are run poorly, but that had nothing to do with supplies.

Bodies are still waiting to be buried, hundreds. White Plains Hospital has now saved and discharged over 700 COVID-19 patients, and have lost 31. This is what it is. Keeping the Country closed at this point is useless. Let's get back to it!

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46 minutes ago, Terry Soloman said:

The virus kills people that are over 50, are obese, have lung illnesses like asthma and COPD, have Leukemia, heart disease, Diabetes, or any other number of risk factors.

So pretty much everyone in this 'conversation' except me.    :inocent:

47 minutes ago, Terry Soloman said:

The vast majority of patients being treated and dying in Westchester County, New York, are illegal aliens, or undocumented workers, of Hispanic decent. In New York City, the story was much the same, mixed with elderly immigrants from Haiti, the Dominican Republic, and other Caribbean islands.

If I understand you correctly...    Since these people are not 'supposedly' American citizens, their deaths are less significant? 

What difference does it make where they come from?  They died on American soil doing jobs that are offered to them by other Americans.

Did I misunderstand you?

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