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Best corona info I've seen. Bill take it down if it doesn't fit.


FlakMagnet

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All the evidence points to this virus being common in bats and now, all of a sudden, it jumped to humans. If this scenario wasn't the result of a mad scientist seeking revenge for some reason, it is a natural occurrence. It was perhaps a bad mistake on someone's part but the Chinese appear to have swept that evidence as well as a few people under the rug.
Regardless, COVID is here in the US and despite our best efforts to control the spread it is infecting about 30,000 people a day and killing about 2,000 people a day based on the worldometer statistics. These numbers have held steady for the last 30 days and the mediation guidelines have been in effect for approximately 45 days. 
There have now been over 1 million diagnosed cases in the US and over 63,000 people have died. Many of the dead had underlying health problems and there are discussions going on  about whether their deaths should be counted as being caused by this virus.  
We now stand at a crossroads, debating what steps to take next. 
At the 2nd Virginia Convention on March 23, 1775, Patrick Henry made a speech at St. John's Church in Richmond and proclaimed "Give me liberty or give me death!"
The convention sat in silence for a few minutes before voting to deliver Virginian troops for the Revolutionary War. 
My vote is to roll. Get America back on it's feet.

Food for thought based on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Give_me_liberty,_or_give_me_death!

Edited by Dakota Slim
Forgot to vote.
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28 minutes ago, Bedrock Bob said:

Yesterday evening they reported on the news that every critical care bed was full in Gallup And Albuquerque. They are full of critically ill patients from the reservation. 

There is a critical care capacity and a hospital capacity. Two different things. There are numbers from the rez and there are numbers from the state. Also two different things. There are available beds in a city and available beds across the state.

Facts. They just keep getting in the way!

New Mexico is a big state and we have several hospitals. Few are handling covid patients. Yes, lots of unoccupied beds. But not because they are all "reserved for 172 patients". 

Before the crisis we had a capacity of 54 critical care slots in the entire state. We have grown that exponentially. The few beds available near the rez are full. These are facts. 

The Navajo rez is the third biggest hotspot in the nation. And their medical resources are as of right now at capacity. Another fact. 

The hospital beds are free because hospitals are not doing anything but emergencies. The number of free beds does not indicate hospitals are not at capacity. The resources needed to treat critical care patients can't be assessed by counting open beds. Because hospitals reach critical care capacity long before all the beds are full.  Another fact.

Facts that just keep getting in the way.

Gallup and Albuquerque are at capacity for treating critical care patients. You can give a statistical analysis on that for any reason you want. But the FACT still remains.

They are flying them out to the hinterland hospitals as we speak. Hospitals in Arizona are feeling the impact as well. There is just short of 2000 confirmed cases on the rez. Testing is difficult but it is clear the numbers are growing exponentially at this point.

 

 

Those are not facts Bob. Those are news stories.

If you had actually read the links I posted you would know that the New Mexico Department of Health stated on March 12 that they have more than 3,000 beds available for coronavirus patients. That was on March 12 - 50 days ago. It's not something they are just now working on.

Chinle has 60 beds and 4 ICU. Tuba City has 73 beds and 16 ICU. Shiprock has 55 beds and 8 ICU. Gallup has 99 beds and 6 ICU. None of them have yet reached bed capacity.

The biggest problem these Dineh hospitals have is under staffing. It's really hard to retain help when the pay sucks, it's hundreds of miles to a decent grocery, many of your patients speak a foreign language and government oversight and forms take up more than 20% of your workday. Not the kind of job most people work long term.

If it sounds like I know something about the actual on the ground conditions it's because one of my boys services the hospitals in the southwest. He's in Tucson today, Phoenix on Monday and back to Albuquerque on Tuesday. He knows the people that work in these hospitals well. He has been visiting virtually empty hospitals for more than a month. In most hospitals 2/3rds of the staff have been laid off. They are not happy. He has yet to see any signs of overcrowding or even the volume of patients on a normal day before the lock downs began.

The situation may be different elsewhere but currently in the Southwest there is no medical service crises except the lack of jobs with paychecks for trained, experienced medical personal.

 

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28 minutes ago, clay said:

Those are not facts Bob. Those are news stories.

If you had actually read the links I posted you would know that the New Mexico Department of Health stated on March 12 that they have more than 3,000 beds available for coronavirus patients. That was on March 12 - 50 days ago. It's not something they are just now working on.

Chinle has 60 beds and 4 ICU. Tuba City has 73 beds and 16 ICU. Shiprock has 55 beds and 8 ICU. Gallup has 99 beds and 6 ICU. None of them have yet reached bed capacity.

The biggest problem these Dineh hospitals have is under staffing. It's really hard to retain help when the pay sucks, it's hundreds of miles to a decent grocery, many of your patients speak a foreign language and government oversight and forms take up more than 20% of your workday. Not the kind of job most people work long term.

If it sounds like I know something about the actual on the ground conditions it's because one of my boys services the hospitals in the southwest. He's in Tucson today, Phoenix on Monday and back to Albuquerque on Tuesday. He knows the people that work in these hospitals well. He has been visiting virtually empty hospitals for more than a month. In most hospitals 2/3rds of the staff have been laid off. They are not happy. He has yet to see any signs of overcrowding or even the volume of patients on a normal day before the lock downs began.

The situation may be different elsewhere but currently in the Southwest there is no medical service crises except the lack of jobs with paychecks for trained, experienced medical personal.

 

I agree Clay, and many of the "news stories" out there are nothing but biased opinions. I'm not say that Bob's sources fit that description but many former reputable "news" organizations have switched from publishing or broadcasting news to pushing opinions.   

Edited by Dakota Slim
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33 minutes ago, Dakota Slim said:

All the evidence points to this virus being common in bats and now, all of a sudden, it jumped to humans. If this scenario wasn't the result of a mad scientist seeking revenge for some reason, it is a natural occurrence. 

Another possibility is the virus jumped from bats to pangolins to humans.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/apr/18/covid-19-a-blessing-for-pangolins

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Good evening all,

Well, this is all getting much more understandable thanks to all of the well reasoned and nuanced contributions.  Yes, a bit of sarcasm there, I know it when I speak it!

Thank you Terry S. for your post, and thank you for volunteering, (is that how you spell volunteering?), as far as the comments regarding the post fromTerry S. as being uncaring about the plight of people of color or whatever the currently acceptable term is I think they are  clearly un warranted.  Please see the response from Terry S.......   As for me, I know a number of health care people, nurses, medics, nurse practitioners etc.  I have heard them express their feelings about patients who had serious issues and sometimes bad outcomes and it did not matter what color the patient was.  And oh yea, their votes were in support of left, right or who knows where candidates.....  Where I live today,  my neighbors are all people of color, (whatever that means) and it kind of reminds me of the neighborhood I grew up in in Orange County, Ca. back in the the fifties,  except that today I am the only anglo on the block.  In my youth my neighbors were white people and we had a good tight knit community, and it was a great block to grow up in.  Some years later when a "person of color" bought a home there with a large family, I remember some of the neighbors were all abuzz with talk about how "they" would damage property values, seriously fretting they were.  My parents told me, that family is just like us and ignore that crap, nobody panicked and sold and the family who looked different were accepted and life went on.....  People need to stop attributing motives to people of a different political persuasion.....  I hope the first nations people on the reservations get proper care just as I would hope for anyone.  Black, brown or whatever, we are all human beans.  I honestly believe there is much more common ground than not.  So here is to Olive branches!

In light of the current Corona Virus threat I will have another Modelo Especial, thank you.

Stay well everyone

Jeff

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1 hour ago, Morlock said:

Another possibility is the virus jumped from bats to pangolins to humans.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/apr/18/covid-19-a-blessing-for-pangolins

And once the genie is out of the bottle it could jump to other animals. Cats have already been infected. Who knows what will be next.

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3 hours ago, clay said:

Those are not facts Bob. Those are news stories.

If you had actually read the links I posted you would know that the New Mexico Department of Health stated on March 12 that they have more than 3,000 beds available for coronavirus patients. That was on March 12 - 50 days ago. It's not something they are just now working on.

Chinle has 60 beds and 4 ICU. Tuba City has 73 beds and 16 ICU. Shiprock has 55 beds and 8 ICU. Gallup has 99 beds and 6 ICU. None of them have yet reached bed capacity.

The biggest problem these Dineh hospitals have is under staffing. It's really hard to retain help when the pay sucks, it's hundreds of miles to a decent grocery, many of your patients speak a foreign language and government oversight and forms take up more than 20% of your workday. Not the kind of job most people work long term.

If it sounds like I know something about the actual on the ground conditions it's because one of my boys services the hospitals in the southwest. He's in Tucson today, Phoenix on Monday and back to Albuquerque on Tuesday. He knows the people that work in these hospitals well. He has been visiting virtually empty hospitals for more than a month. In most hospitals 2/3rds of the staff have been laid off. They are not happy. He has yet to see any signs of overcrowding or even the volume of patients on a normal day before the lock downs began.

The situation may be different elsewhere but currently in the Southwest there is no medical service crises except the lack of jobs with paychecks for trained, experienced medical personal.

 

In the last 50 days the rez has had 2000 cases Clay. Things arent like they were in March anymore.

And you are still counting empty hospital beds in closed hospitals across the entire state. Not ICU beds in Albuquerque and Gallup.

The hospitals are "empty" because they are only accepting emergencies. That does not mean that they are not at capacity to treat these cases. It means these cases are taking every resource they can throw at them. They are focusing on the pandemic and other areas of the hospital are closed. They sent the staff home. 

Today they opened most hospitals across the State for non emergency stuff. Those 3000 beds will start filling back up. That is far away from the rez though. And they are not critical care beds.

No one said the hospitals were overcrowded. I said they were at capacity to treat critical care patients. Surely even you can admit there is a big distinction there. 

You post stuff that is weeks old in a fast moving situation. The numbers you posted for March are just not the numbers today.

They closed the roads around Gallup today. No one in and no one out. 1000 cases in McKinley Co alone. Every ICU bed on the rez is full. The same with Gallup and Albuquerque. They are shipping them to Las Vegas and Soccorro. 

You need to get some current info. You are over a month behind the curve. Today the rez has more cases per capita than any state except New York and New Jersey!

You posted an article on March 15 that said the yearly flu statistics would hardly be affected. That no one would even know there was a pandemic. We can clearly see just how intuitive that was. The numbers you posted today are equally as dated and incorrect. They are over a month old and a month ago things were a whole bunch different.

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35 minutes ago, Bedrock Bob said:

In the last 50 days the rez has had 2000 cases Clay. Things arent like they were in March anymore.

And you are still counting empty hospital beds in closed hospitals across the entire state. Not ICU beds in Albuquerque and Gallup.

The hospitals are "empty" because they are only accepting emergencies. That does not mean that they are not at capacity to treat these cases. It means these cases are taking every resource they can throw at them. They are focusing on the pandemic and other areas of the hospital are closed. They sent the staff home. 

Today they opened most hospitals across the State for non emergency stuff. Those 3000 beds will start filling back up. That is far away from the rez though. And they are not critical care beds.

No one said the hospitals were overcrowded. I said they were at capacity to treat critical care patients. Surely even you can admit there is a big distinction there. 

You post stuff that is weeks old in a fast moving situation. The numbers you posted for March are just not the numbers today.

They closed the roads around Gallup today. No one in and no one out. 1000 cases in McKinley Co alone. Every ICU bed on the rez is full. The same with Gallup and Albuquerque. They are shipping them to Las Vegas and Soccorro. 

You need to get some current info. You are over a month behind the curve. Today the rez has more cases than any state except New York and New Jersey!

You posted an article on March 15 that said the yearly flu statistics would hardly be affected. That no one would even know there was a pandemic. We can clearly see just how intuitive that was. The numbers you posted today are equally as dated and incorrect. They are over a month old and a month ago things were a whole bunch different.

Bob, where are you getting this information? Can you provide a link? 
What have the people in these areas been doing since mitigation started?
The stats I see at the following 2 sites tell a very different story:
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/?fbclid=IwAR0paNUNVad6SjT-1114_Z9R7ydA9Lr26-JR1gd9vOzocoJGuI4ihS-l-qo

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/coronavirus-us-cases.html

Edited by Dakota Slim
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4 hours ago, LukeJ said:

 

 

Would you do it while it's 'angry' and still trying to get inside the cave?  Or wait until a time that's more advantageous?

That is the problem, right there. The Mammoth projections are  mostly all trumpeting and no tusk.

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30 minutes ago, Dakota Slim said:

Bob, where are you getting this information? Can you provide a link? 
The stats I see at the following 2 sites tell a very different story:
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/?fbclid=IwAR0paNUNVad6SjT-1114_Z9R7ydA9Lr26-JR1gd9vOzocoJGuI4ihS-l-qo

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/coronavirus-us-cases.html

Actually Slim, your first link tells the story very clearly. You just have to be able to read the data. Just compare the numbers for the rez with the state numbers.

It shows the Navajo nation to have 2,100 cases. Per capita that is less than New York or New Jersey but more than the next four hardest hit States combined.

I get my info from the local news. I live here remember? If you need coronavirus info just Google it. Remember to ignore information from sources whose ratings have plumetted. :25r30wi:

If you just can't believe it is true then go out and get the facts that suit your narrative. Meanwhile, here in the real world we are fighting a major battle on the rez. And our local hospitals are reeling. We have a hotspot that is big and growing so fast they shut an entire city down today to try and contain it. 

https://www.sltrib.com/news/2020/04/19/navajo-nation-has-higher/

Edited by Bedrock Bob
Included a link for Slim so he does not have to be uninformed about the crisis on the reservation.
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21 minutes ago, Stillweaver hillbelli said:

That is the problem, right there. The Mammoth projections are  mostly all trumpeting and no tusk.

65,435 fatal cases in the U.S. / 1,897 more than yesterday.

 

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38 minutes ago, Bedrock Bob said:

In the last 50 days the rez has had 2000 cases Clay. Things arent like they were in March anymore.

And you are still counting empty hospital beds in closed hospitals across the entire state. Not ICU beds in Albuquerque and Gallup.

The hospitals are "empty" because they are only accepting emergencies. That does not mean that they are not at capacity to treat these cases. It means these cases are taking every resource they can throw at them. They are focusing on the pandemic and other areas of the hospital are closed. They sent the staff home. 

Today they opened most hospitals across the State for non emergency stuff. Those 3000 beds will start filling back up. That is far away from the rez though. And they are not critical care beds.

No one said the hospitals were overcrowded. I said they were at capacity to treat critical care patients. Surely even you can admit there is a big distinction there. 

You post stuff that is weeks old in a fast moving situation. The numbers you posted for March are just not the numbers today.

They closed the roads around Gallup today. No one in and no one out. 1000 cases in McKinley Co alone. Every ICU bed on the rez is full. The same with Gallup and Albuquerque. They are shipping them to Las Vegas and Soccorro. 

You need to get some current info. You are over a month behind the curve. Today the rez has more cases than any state except New York and New Jersey!

You posted an article on March 15 that said the yearly flu statistics would hardly be affected. That no one would even know there was a pandemic. We can clearly see just how intuitive that was. The numbers you posted today are equally as dated and incorrect. They are over a month old and a month ago things were a whole bunch different.

I never wrote that. Don't put words in my mouth Bob. Read what I posted and leave the speculation to the news channel.

I gave you the exact current count for ICUs per Dineh hospital as they stood today. I gave you first hand information gathered on site over the last week from the people that work in these hospitals.

Your own source says there are more than 2,000 natives that have tested positive. That's not 2,000 people that have become ill. People that test positive and aren't ill take up no hospital resources.

As I posted earlier today:

Quote

Currently (22 hours ago) there are 172 hospitalizations State wide for coronavirus.

172. Not 2000, not the ICUs are overflowing. 172 hospitalizations total in the State of New Mexico. Not all of those 172 patients are in ICU.

You write well Bob. I enjoy your humor and you are a very clever guy. You tell a good tale. I hope you continue to entertain us with good stories here. I think you are an asset to this forum.

I have only tried to share what information I know on this subject. I don't know everything, I'm just hoping to contribute. Some of the information I share is public and I have linked to that information so you can form your own opinions. Some of that information is only known to the people who work in these hospitals. None of this has been my opinion. I will now share my opinion since you are so eager for me to express an opinion that you attempted to give me one of your own making.

Please work on your fact checking and logic and skip the drama when it comes to things like this that affect so many people. Working from facts will enable all the readers to form their own opinions about what those facts mean to them. Confusing the issue with TV numbers drama or forcefully repeated opinions disrespects the ability of others to make reasoned conclusions based on verifiable information.

There - now you have my opinion. No need to make one up for me and put words in my mouth. :4chsmu1:

Feel better?

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1 hour ago, Terry Soloman said:

Just needed to clear this up.. :rolleyes:

I would like to apologize for my part in causing Mr. Soloman to feel the need to defend his character.

Sorry Terry, I didn't think it was going to take a turn like it did.  I'm sure you had good intentions.

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21 minutes ago, LukeJ said:

65,435 fatal cases in the U.S. / 1,897 more than yesterday.

 

CDC says 37308 as of 5.01.2020

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4 minutes ago, LukeJ said:

65,435 fatal cases in the U.S. / 1,897 more than yesterday.

 

Just keep telling yourself that If we hadn't known a novel virus was circulating it would hardly be noticeable in the yearly flu death statistics.

This is what Clay wanted us to believe a few short weeks ago. 

Now the coronavirus has killed more than 911, Afghanistan and both Iraq wars combined AND THEN DOUBLED.

The Viet Nam war was less deadly than the flu too. The virus has killed more than the Viet Nam war in just ten weeks. It has permanently injured five times more. The economic impact is already exponentially worse. And we still have a long way to go.

It takes one tuskless mammoth to not realize how this has impacted us already. And a caveman could see that it is nowhere near over.

But if we Google the sources with high ratings we can pretend not to know we have a problem in the Southwest that is rapidly evolving into a disaster. It is all a fantasy designed to influence the upcoming election. The empty hospital beds in Roswell proves it!

I know because my cousin goes to the hospitals and tells me they are empty. And the statistics two months ago shows no problems.

The only question to be answered at this point is how far will a man stick his head up his own tailpucker to avoid admitting the truth about this virus?

Maybe Clay or Slim can Google the answers for us and provide a link to last month's data? Maybe the answer will come to Swellbelly Hillbeaver in a vitamin induced trance? Maybe a caucasion in White Plains will be stricken and whisper the answer in Terry's ear? 

 

 

 

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18 minutes ago, Stillweaver hillbelli said:

CDC says 37308 as of 5.01.2020

Hmmmm....   Well that's weird, since this one says:  62,406 with 2,349 new since yesterday.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/cases-in-us.html

I think 37,308 was last week.  That's how fast the number have been growing.

Try again.

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I don't have to put words in your mouth Clay. All I need to do is repost your words from March 28.

You need to brush up on what is happening in the Southwest. It is a much different picture than you are trying to paint!

..I have more if you care to learn...

:25r30wi:

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""Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.""

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34 minutes ago, Stillweaver hillbelli said:

CDC says 37308 as of 5.01.2020

Those are cave man numbers. You probably need to put on something with a lot of elastic and catch up on current events. We just past 63k.

 

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1 minute ago, Stillweaver hillbelli said:

""Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.""

They say you can't fix stupid. It turns out you cant quarrantine it either.

 

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1 minute ago, Bedrock Bob said:

Those are cave man numbers. You probably need to put on something with a lot of elastic and catch up on current events. We just past 63k.

 

Nope, not CMN#'s, just #'s from the CDC.

No elastic or catching up needed.

May be you need to catch up on the Constitution and  Bill of Rights.

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7 minutes ago, Stillweaver hillbelli said:

Nope, not CMN#'s, just #'s from the CDC.

No elastic or catching up needed.

May be you need to catch up on the Constitution and  Bill of Rights.

Your numbers are as far off as your interpretation of the constitution. But not quite as disconnected as your definition of opression.

Today's number is 65,477.  Google it until you find out why the CDC numbers don't reflect the actual totals. You might learn something!

Edited by Bedrock Bob
Changed the number because it went up by 35 while I was writing.
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