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Best corona info I've seen. Bill take it down if it doesn't fit.


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24 minutes ago, pairadiceau said:

Well, the good news is the flowers are still beautiful and smell amazing, the California Poppys are ablaze on the hillsides and my dog seems comfortable.  I am a very fortunate guy. 

Thankfully the kids and my friends are well and observing reasonable protocols.  Did some painting today, had an emergency delivery of Modelo Especial, and fixed the swamp cooler.

Thanks all for keeping us all informed, throw another log on the fire, it is a fine evening here.

You guys stay safe.

Jeff

 

 

the flowers are still beautiful . . .

Yes, they are! These beauties here in the desert as well! The Hedge Hog Cacti bloom once a year, in April, for about a week.

Salud!

HEDGE HOG CACTI.jpg

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1 hour ago, BMc said:

Bunk and debunk, like "facts" are, of course, subjectively in the eye of the beholder.

Well then I guess it's time for me to just sit back and allow you guys to 'educate' me.

I won't provide any more of my 'facts'.

Take care everyone.   :)

Edited by LukeJ
not going to waste my time
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BMc,

Thank you for posting, wonderful photo,  that is one of the things I enjoy most about Az.  The stuff growing is amazing, I still remember several years ago I was in Gold Basin motoring along on my quad going down a wash and as I came around a bend  and, WHAM, I was hit in the face with the most intense scent of sage, I think it was sage, and it was amazing yep it has been six or so years and I still remember it.  That desert is a constant source of wonder.....  Lizards, blooming cacti, snakes, rocks, lead deposits, space rocks, incredible sunsets, and sometimes golden rocks.  Not to mention all of the interesting two legged critters wandering around.  

Cheers,

Jeff

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1 hour ago, BMc said:

IS THERE BALM IN GILEAD?

 Remdesivir,  made by Gilead, is all over the news, being touted as the new wonder drug to defeat Covid 19? Let hope it's true but what about the other drugs that work and are much, much cheaper ? Is there more to the story? Did Dr. Faucci fund any of the studies or have a financial interest in the outcome? Any conflict of interest in his glowing endorsement?

Big Pharma et al, tends to help those (Doctors),  to help themselves . . . Not conspiratorial, but does seem curious . . .  

Just a cure not a vaccine.

Many of heart attacks but some people it works for . A failure to the masses. The government gave them 434 million.

Edited by H-2 Charlie
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8 hours ago, H-2 Charlie said:

Just a cure not a vaccine.

Many of heart attacks but some people it works for . A failure to the masses. The government gave them 434 million.

I'm not even sure you could call it a cure. It does shorten the recovery time from 15 days to 11 days with a slightly lower mortality rate. I would just call it a treatment. Surely it's much better then the much touted hydroxychloquine certain people were peddling.

https://www-forbes-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.forbes.com/sites/lisettevoytko/2020/04/30/report-fauci-revealed-remdesivir-trial-results-to-get-ahead-of-leaks/amp/?amp_js_v=a3&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA%3D#aoh=15882537976846&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From %1%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.forbes.com%2Fsites%2Flisettevoytko%2F2020%2F04%2F30%2Freport-fauci-revealed-remdesivir-trial-results-to-get-ahead-of-leaks%2F

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 Hydroxychloroquine, to a great extent tended to have excellent results when administered in time to save people (like countries abroad were doing). Administered early, before patients are hospitalized, intubated, on respirators, (and are dying), the drug saved people. Unfortunately, the way the drug was generally being administered was In late stages of the disease, or when the cytokine dump was either in progress or imminent. Then it was too late, and it's no wonder people were dying en mass. So far, it appears that Remdesivir may be tend to work better overall, (late stage administration) 

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As getting ready for change, I am building a solar generator, that will run one or two outlets.  I have a gas generator already, but for those that have used them for hours on end, they go through a lot of gasoline, gallons a day.  It'll take a few weeks for all the parts to come in, and probably a few months and several trips to the hardware store to get it assembled before its done.

Seems like every day there's a new treatment that shows promise.  In the beginning it was elderberries.  Last week for us it was a talk about getting TB shots, which after studied showed no difference between those that had it and those that didn't.  Too many of these treatments have turned out to show no promise after tested.  Even if a vaccine is developed, unless its before the 18 month testing cycle, I won't be the first on my block to take that.  I'm a big believer in vaccines, I've had 20 doses for anthrax, and a few others from in the service, but the only time I know that a vaccine was rushed to production was the swine flu in the 70s and in that case the vaccine was worst than the cure. 

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11 hours ago, Dakota Slim said:

Hi Bob. I see you edited this after I reacted. That's OK. I should have quoted your original post but this will do. Obviously all sources for COVID-19 related info don't have "ratings", just as all witnesses in a civil or criminal trial haven't been proven themselves to lack candor. 
Getting back to the post I made that led to your mocking me for what I posted, what part of "Considering the source of purported "facts" might be a good idea." do you not understand? What does your mocking question have to do with COVID-19?

It must be difficult to have to defend against every opinion that runs against the party line. Especially when the party line often runs contrary to science, logic and common sense.

A fellow who is so sensitive to what is posted, how it is posted and if it is edited has an especially difficult job.

You are doing a great job though. Keep it up! Even if we don't agree the effort and frustration you are willing to endure to support your beliefs is commendable.

:ya:

Edited by Bedrock Bob
To add the little cheerleader emoticon. I could not find one with Pom Poms so this one will have to do.
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59 minutes ago, BMc said:

 Hydroxychloroquine, to a great extent tended to have excellent results when administered in time to save people (like countries abroad were doing). Administered early, before patients are hospitalized, intubated, on respirators, (and are dying), the drug saved people. Unfortunately, the way the drug was generally being administered was In late stages of the disease, or when the cytokine dump was either in progress or imminent. Then it was too late, and it's no wonder people were dying en mass. So far, it appears that Remdesivir may be tend to work better overall, (late stage administration) 

Novartis is doing a reputable trial on hydroxychloroquine. Results should be available in a few months if not sooner.

https://www.novartis.com/news/media-releases/novartis-sponsor-large-clinical-trial-hydroxychloroquine-hospitalized-covid-19-patients
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1 hour ago, Morlock said:

Novartis is doing a reputable trial on hydroxychloroquine. Results should be available in a few months if not sooner.


https://www.novartis.com/news/media-releases/novartis-sponsor-large-clinical-trial-hydroxychloroquine-hospitalized-covid-19-patients

From the above Link: Remdesivir and chloroquine effectively inhibit the recently emerged novel coronavirus (2019-nCoV) in vitro. Manli Wang,#1Ruiyuan Cao,#2Leike Zhang,#1Xinglou Yang,#1Jia Liu,1Mingyue Xu,1Zhengli Shi,1Zhihong Hu,corresponding author1Wu Zhong,corresponding author2 and Gengfu Xiaocorresponding author1

That being the case, it would seem to beg the question: Why this? "Surely it's much better then the much touted hydroxychloquine certain people were peddling"

What difference does it make with regards to who the proponent of the drug is?

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Fact:

France banned the online sale of nicotine patches after it was discovered that daily tobacco smokers had a very low incidence of Covid infection. They didn't really need to ban them, about 35% of the adult population smoke cigarettes daily and I'm pretty sure those patches would have been in short supply after people figured out they might help with immunity.

From the study:

Quote

Conclusions and relevance: Our cross sectional study in both COVID-19 out- and inpatients strongly suggests that daily smokers have a very much lower probability of developing symptomatic or severe SARS-CoV-2 infection as compared to the general population.

Link to study:

https://www.qeios.com/read/WPP19W.3

Similiar results were published in the New England Journal of Medicine (PDF) last month. It appears their study of the China infection rates also showed active cigarette smokers were much less likely to be infected.

Now before you go all B.O.B. on me be aware I'm not promoting smoking, Nicotine or animal abuse. This is just one aspect of the facts being discovered about these SARS infection rates. Smokers, should they become symptomatic, are going to have a much harder course of any respiratory infection whether it be the many common HN flu viruses or one of the SARS/MERS viruses.

Edited by clay
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1 hour ago, Bedrock Bob said:

It must make some difference to someone. For some reason.

Wouldn't you agree Mac?

Why does it make a difference to you?

Nice parry Bob. But no touche' with your reversal, and who said it made a difference anyway ? I certainly didn't. That's the whole point. Logically speaking, all partisanship aside:  It shouldn't make any difference at all. If it works, and that's the tool we have available, let's use it! And anything else that works too!

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5 minutes ago, BMc said:

Nice parry Bob. But no touche' with your reversal, and who said it made a difference anyway ? I certainly didn't. That's the whole point. Logically speaking, all partisanship aside:  It shouldn't make any difference at all. If it works, and that's the tool we have available, let's use it! And anything else that works too!

Exactly. 

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3 hours ago, chrisski said:

Even if a vaccine is developed, unless its before the 18 month testing cycle, I won't be the first on my block to take that.  I'm a big believer in vaccines, I've had 20 doses for anthrax, and a few others from in the service, but the only time I know that a vaccine was rushed to production was the swine flu in the 70s and in that case the vaccine was worst than the cure. 

Yeah the swine flu vaccine was a nightmare. The cure was much worse than the disease.

Anthrax is a bacteria so it's not really the same type of "vaccine" that would be developed for a virus. The anthrax vaccine produced 85% adverse reactions in the military.

No vaccine has ever been developed for viruses in the SARS/MERS family the Covid - 19 infection comes from. In fact the previous SARS virus only lasted about one year in the wild so there has never been an opportunity to test a vaccine except in the lab. Even in the lab no effective SARS vaccine has been developed despite 20 years of research.

I'm not going to be holding my breath for a vaccine. The odds are the virus will be extinct in the human population before any real vaccine progress will be made.

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39 minutes ago, BMc said:

Nice parry Bob. But no touche' with your reversal, and who said it made a difference anyway ? I certainly didn't. That's the whole point. Logically speaking, all partisanship aside:  It shouldn't make any difference at all. If it works, and that's the tool we have available, let's use it! And anything else that works too!

Only someone who thought they were in a sword fight would consider that a parry. 

Any effective treatment is great. It is how the message about those treatments are being used that is the issue.

 

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1 hour ago, Bedrock Bob said:

Only someone who thought they were in a sword fight would consider that a parry. 

Any effective treatment is great. It is how the message about those treatments are being used that is the issue.

 

"certain people"? 

So it's about the how, not the who? I wish you were right. Maybe you need to read it again . . . 

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1 hour ago, clay said:

Yeah the swine flu vaccine was a nightmare. The cure was much worse than the disease.

Anthrax is a bacteria so it's not really the same type of "vaccine" that would be developed for a virus. The anthrax vaccine produced 85% adverse reactions in the military.

No vaccine has ever been developed for viruses in the SARS/MERS family the Covid - 19 infection comes from. In fact the previous SARS virus only lasted about one year in the wild so there has never been an opportunity to test a vaccine except in the lab. Even in the lab no effective SARS vaccine has been developed despite 20 years of research.

I'm not going to be holding my breath for a vaccine. The odds are the virus will be extinct in the human population before any real vaccine progress will be made.

It kind of looks like we may be headed for a maintenance type of preventative dosage, similar to what visitors to other countries have to take to avoid infection.  "Hydroxychloroquine can be prescribed for either prevention or treatment of malaria. The drug has a long track record in medicine, having been used since the 1940s as an antimalarial. The modern drug is a synthetic form of quinine, which is found in the bark of the Cinchona plant. The plant was taken as an herbal remedy by indigenous Peruvians four centuries ago to treat fever. And there are some early indications it could work against SARS-CoV-2 infections"

"For instance, a study in France published on March 20 in the International Journal of Antimicrobial Agents described the treatment of 42 patients hospitalized with COVID-19, 26 of whom received a version of chloroquine called hydroxychloroquine and 16 of whom received routine care. Of the 20 patients who took the antimalarial and completed the study, six also received azithromycin, an antibiotic. All six of these patients were free of SARS-CoV-2 by the fifth day post-treatment, while seven of 14 patients who took hydroxychloroquine alone were negative for the virus, and two of 16 control patients were no longer infected"

Remdesivir may become the main treatment for covid 19, while Hydroxychloroquine can continue to be mass produced and distributed as a preventative maintenance or prophylactic drug, since it's so inexpensive.  

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I'm starting to wonder if the preventative measures countries and various states are taking are doing more harm than the disease. While "the curve" representing daily new cases -- and new daily deaths -- seems to have flattened, it doesn't seem to be going down. 
The natives are restless and they need some place to go. Every day of closure means more businesses will never open back up again and at some point government spending and the printing of new dollars could be devastating to US citizens. 
There are a lot of things to consider about COVID-19 and how to deal with it. 

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2 hours ago, Dakota Slim said:

Could you please elaborate on that Bob?

Two different things Slim.

1 - Experimenting with certain drugs for treatment and reporting on it.

Good thing.

2- Using the prospects of certain drugs used for treatment for political and financial motives.

Bad thing.

Are you getting it yet?

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44 minutes ago, Dakota Slim said:

I'm starting to wonder if the preventative measures countries and various states are taking are doing more harm than the disease. While "the curve" representing daily new cases -- and new daily deaths -- seems to have flattened, it doesn't seem to be going down. 
The natives are restless and they need some place to go. Every day of closure means more businesses will never open back up again and at some point government spending and the printing of new dollars could be devastating to US citizens. 
There are a lot of things to consider about COVID-19 and how to deal with it. 

Ask our friends down in New Zealand, their extreme lockdown measures seem to have paid off. They have under 20 deaths in the country, it is isolated and a small country, but the point is they did what was needed to get the virus under control. If the natives you speak of are getting restless that's too bad better than getting covid! Stay cool , stay sate and stay home if you can.  

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Our Governor is holding the line with the protesters. She outlined a well thought out plan for phased reopening in two weeks. She made some reasonable concessions and also refused some reckless demands.

I am optomistic that things can start to reopen in a couple of weeks. If the people take it seriously and behave themselves it will work. There is going to be trouble in places but I think we can handle it. It is a learning process and it isnt going to be perfect.

The sickness is going to be here for a while. We have to figure out how to work in a completely new environment and in different ways.

The second wave is going to happen. And there will be hotspots. But we do need to balance risk to the economy with fighting the virus. I don't have any idea where the sweet spot is in that equation. But if we can expand testing enough to get an idea of what is happening it will be a lot easier to manage a second wave.

And if people continue to wear masks and practice distancing through the summer we have the best recovery possible.

Those that don't take transmission mitigation seriously are a liability and will cost this country billions. The more patriots that support the fight we are in the less it will hurt us.

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