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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, corvette said:

Where I live in the Estrella mountains, part of the wash is fenced off, also they have resricted any use of motor vehicles in the wash and by the river

That and sometimes they are trying to protect the water or spring from cattle, burro’s, etc., from fouling it.

Edited by GotAU?
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  • 3 weeks later...

I would like to address this from the ranchers point of view. First I grew up on a cattle ranch. But in Texas where I grew up is all private land with no open BLM land so there is no public use. Never the less. If I have my property ( the cattle) out on a piece of ground I will want to know what you are doing out there. Ok so let’s say you go out on public lands to hunt deer or quail. That is your right, but what happens when you shoot my cow? Also you might consider that cattle rustling still exists in this day and age. Cows are worth three to five hundred dollars a piece. So if you run into a mad rancher you might take a minute to consider his point of view. He is just protecting his property the cattle. So with that said you might want to take the time in your research of new places to hunt gold and find out who has the grazing rights leased on the land you wish to prospect and contact them so they know who you are and what you are up to before going. Who knows they may know where the gold is and can point you to places worth looking at. After all they have probably spent more time on that ground than anyone else. 

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I agree with you on part of your post. We run cows on BLM ground and we do worry about them, dont get me wrong. BUT..i would never expect anybody to go find who has the grazing rights so they can ask me if i care if they use the BLM land we ALL own. Just because we have the grazing rights for a certain piece of ground, doesnt mean we have the right to keep people off of it or even ask them why they are there. Grazing public lands has risks that come with it and we are very aware of that. You cant ASSUME that everyone using the ground is a bad person looking to cause damage. Its everybody's land to use, not just the ranchers.

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1 hour ago, William B said:

I would like to address this from the ranchers point of view. First I grew up on a cattle ranch. But in Texas where I grew up is all private land with no open BLM land so there is no public use. Never the less. If I have my property ( the cattle) out on a piece of ground I will want to know what you are doing out there. Ok so let’s say you go out on public lands to hunt deer or quail. That is your right, but what happens when you shoot my cow? Also you might consider that cattle rustling still exists in this day and age. Cows are worth three to five hundred dollars a piece. So if you run into a mad rancher you might take a minute to consider his point of view. He is just protecting his property the cattle. So with that said you might want to take the time in your research of new places to hunt gold and find out who has the grazing rights leased on the land you wish to prospect and contact them so they know who you are and what you are up to before going. Who knows they may know where the gold is and can point you to places worth looking at. After all they have probably spent more time on that ground than anyone else. 

If a hunter shoots a cow he is negligent and liable for the damages. Plain and simple. 

BLM land is multiple use. The rancher has no more right to use the land as a miner or a recreationalist. 

As a prospector, hunter or fisherman I don't need to ask permission or notify anyone of my intentions to use public land.

If a rancher wants to know who I am and what I am up to he can ask me. Just like I can ask a rancher what he knows about gold on his lease.

A rancher leases the grass. As long as the public does not eat any of the grass a rancher has little to gripe about. Just as a miner has little to gripe about unless a rancher is taking claimed minerals.

On BLM land there is a big problem with some ranchers believing they have more rights than other users. The same problem exists with some claim owners. They often feel that other public land users are not welcome. In some cases they actually try to run people off. 

There is no reason that anyone should notify a claim owner or lease holder of their intentions to enjoy public lands. This is entirely up to the individual.

No one is going to "accidentally" shoot livestock. That is just preposterous. If it happens the shooter is negligent and responsible for the damages. If it happens on purpose the shooter is a criminal and faces severe penalties. Stealing private property is a criminal act whether it is cattle or equipment. It does not matter if the land status is private or public.

If the rancher wants to know who is on his public land lease it is his duty to patrol it and ask people who are there. They have no duty to provide him with any information at all. Just like a claim holder. They have no right to interfere with the public use in any way.

All public users have a vested interest in their activities. Ranchers have private property (cattle) that no one has the right to interfere with. Miners have private rights to the minerals. Hunters and fishermen have equipment and game. But the land and the access is public. No user has the rights to demand anything of another. And users do not have any responsibility to notify, ask permission or otherwise beg to utilize public land.

Asking ranchers about gold (or game, fish, locations) is often a very counterproductive folly. In some cases it may work. In other cases it just causes trouble. It all depends on individual personalities and these can be all over the map. 

You are just as likely to get wrong information as good information these days. My advice is to know the land status and any leaseholders in the area and get your information from the official records. Take anything that you hear from ranchers, miners or other users with suspicion. It is more often than not incorrect. 

 

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Fair enough Bob.  It is public land and there for everyone to use and that people need to respect the mineral claims and grazing leases. I was just trying to point out to the city folks that if someone runs into a grumpy rancher just to keep in mind that he is probably protecting his livestock and has more than likely at some point or another had a bad run in with people on said land. And no you don’t have to ask permission, But if you took the time to make the aquatints with the rancher it could just grease the wheel so to speak and make things less caustic. Like you said though there are a lot of personalities out there and I am sure there are lease holders that think the land is theirs. Bottom line the rancher can’t say no to you that doesn’t mean he will be happy you are out there. You are also correct that you may get bad information from the rancher about the minerals on the land, that could be for a lot of different reasons. But I can’t say it would hurt to ask what they might know. Take what information they share with a grain of salt and consider the source after all they are not miners or prospectors they are more worried about food and water for their livestock. So to them you just might be a fool that wants to poke around in the dirt with a gold wishing stick, and in general just a pain in the backside.

No one is going to "accidentally" shoot livestock. That is just preposterous. If it happens the shooter is negligent and responsible for the damages. If it happens on purpose the shooter is a criminal and faces severe penalties. Stealing private property is a criminal act whether it is cattle or equipment. It does not matter if the land status is private or public.

Bob livestock is shot every year by hunters it doesn’t matter if it is malicious or on accident that isn’t preposterous it happens. Just like people are shot every year by fellow hunters across the country in hunting accidents. Because they don’t take the time to identify the target before they shoot. So unless it is caught on camera or by a law enforcement officer the offender is never brought up on any charges. Even if I see you shoot my cow it won’t go to court because it is my word against yours. I know that for a fact as it happens year after year at the ranch I grew up on.  

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