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KNEE JERKS-NFL SUNDAY

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This has been going around for quite awhile and although the issue has largely been resolved, it's still worth repeating.

"Subject: Open Letter To The NFL PLAYERS:
You graduated high school in 2011.  Your teenage years were a struggle.  You grew up on the wrong side of the tracks.  Your mother was the leader of the family and worked tirelessly to keep a roof over your head and food on your plate.  Academics were a struggle for you and your grades were mediocre at best. The only thing that made you stand out is you weighed 225 lbs and could run 40 yards in 4.2 seconds while carrying a football.  Your best friend was just like you, except he didn’t play football.  Instead of going to football practice after school, he went to work at McDonald's for minimum wage.  You were recruited by all the big colleges and spent every weekend of your senior year making visits to universities where coaches and boosters tried to convince you their school was best.  They laid out the red carpet for you. Your best friend worked double shifts at Mickey D’s.  College was not an option for him.  On the day you signed with Big State University, your best friend signed paperwork with his Army recruiter.  You went to summer workouts.  He went to basic training.
You spent the next four years living in the athletic dorm, eating at the training table. You spent your Saturdays on the football field, cheered on by adoring fans.  Tutors attended to your every academic need.  You attended class when you felt like it. Sure, you worked hard.  You lifted weights, ran sprints, studied plays, and soon became one of the top football players in the country.  Your best friend was assigned to the 101st Airborne Division. While you were in college, he deployed to Iraq once and Afghanistan twice.  He became a Sergeant and led a squad of 19 year old soldiers who grew up just like he did.  He shed his blood in Afghanistan and watched young American's give their lives, limbs, and innocence for the USA.
You went to the NFL Scouting Combine and scored off the charts.  You hired an agent and waited for draft day.  You were drafted in the first round and your agent immediately went to work, ensuring that you received the most money possible. You signed for $16 million although you had never played a single down of professional football.  Your best friend re-enlisted in the Army for four more years. As a combat tested sergeant, he will be paid $32,000 per year.
You will drive a Ferrari on the streets of South Beach.  He will ride in the back of a Blackhawk helicopter with 10 other combat loaded soldiers.  You will sleep at the Ritz.  He will dig a hole in the ground and try to sleep.  You will “make it rain” in the club.  He will pray for rain as the temperature reaches 120 degrees.
On Sunday, you will run into a stadium as tens of thousands of fans cheer and yell your name.  For your best friend, there is little difference between Sunday and any other day of the week.  There are no adoring fans.  There are only people trying to kill him and his soldiers. Every now and then, he and his soldiers leave the front lines and “go to the rear” to rest.  He might be lucky enough to catch an NFL game on TV.  When the National Anthem plays and you take a knee, he will jump to his feet and salute the television.  While you protest the unfairness of life in the United States, he will give thanks to God that he has the honor of defending his great country.
To the players of the NFL:  We are the people who buy your tickets, watch you on TV, and wear your jerseys.  We anxiously wait for Sundays so we can cheer for you and marvel at your athleticism. Although we love to watch you play, we care little about your opinions until you offend us. You have the absolute right to express yourselves, but we have the absolute right to boycott you.  We have tolerated your drug use and DUIs, your domestic violence, and your vulgar displays of wealth.  You are living the American dream, yet you disparage our great country.  But now you have gone too far, by the misguided, disrespectful symbolism of, "taking a knee",  You have insulted our flag, our country, our soldiers, our police officers, and our veterans" . . .

As Americans, we should show respect for the Flag, and honor our Veterans for their selfless service and sacrifice. Many of whom come home with the American Flag draped over their coffins.  And there are others . . . who never come home at all . . ..

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I gave up Pro Football because of this.  I haven't watches a game since that no good commissioner refused to do anything about this atrocity.  There are too many 'Americans' who either go along with them or are too apathic to the situation to do anything about it.  I for one will not support the NFL in any way as long as they condone this kind of behavior in public.  :snapoutofit:

   Old Tom

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I don't see where taking a knee is disrespect. It is obviously not meant as disrespect.

I see it as a very effective way to force an issue to the forefront. People can howl all they want about it and the more they do the more powerful the statement is.

We have real problems in this country. Black athletes kneeling for the Anthem are not a problem. Why they are kneeling is a problem. We should have the conversation rather than try to paint them as unpatriotic. 

No one is dishonoring Veterans or this country by kneeling for the Anthem. That is just a stance that avoids the discussion of why they are kneeling in the first place.

When we can discuss why these men kneel we will all feel like standing for the Anthem. Until then I personally support their method of protest.

Edited by Bedrock Bob
White guys betting on Black gladiators want them to behave as expected. Especially on camera.
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Oh no, Don't think that I'm dumb enough to fall for his troll line, Morlock.  boorb

   Old Tom

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those who think america is great should lookup the true diffination for the word.

every monday november 2016 to october 2017 went to the white owl senior dinner for lunch. they would all face the flag and recite the pledge of allegiance. me would stand, (needed the exercise) and face away from the flag. not one of those seniors ever said anything to me about it.

still waiting for me benefits for the three tours to nam.

every cop and judge has thanked me for me services before taking away every thing me has owned. 

one thing they can not take from me, happiness. spirits who wish harm are tortured, spirits that wish no harm travel the universe. it's your choice.

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3 hours ago, Old Tom said:

Oh no, Don't think that I'm dumb enough to fall for his troll line, Morlock.  boorb

   Old Tom

It is my honest opinion on the subject Tom. 

If you don't want to discuss why these men kneel during the Anthem you don't have to. If you think their motives are to disrespect the flag or the Veterans I would respectfully disagree.

That is not trolling. That is just an attempt at honest conversation.

 

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3 hours ago, Bedrock Bob said:

That is just an attempt at honest conversation.

I'm not biting bro.  Been seriously ill for the last six months and Doc says to save my breath for when I really need it.  This is not a valid subject to expound upon so you and I can just agree to disagree.  :shake2:

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old tom, you are what you eat, when me cut off all GMO foods, alcohol, and only drink good water with spoon of raw apple cider, molasses and a drop of peppermint oil about five years ago me wakes up feeling younger each day without any aches or pains. heart rate of a twenty year old. reason me lives in morristown az is the water here. new bottled water is not at all good for you.

in eastern imperial county 2012 the BLM contracted with a weldriller to fill all good drinking water wells with concrete. march 2017 went to goldrock ranch to get water. BLM had removed the three faucet's that prospector's been using since 1925. county came out and put a meter on the well.

there are some good railroad wells in yuma county, but the mormons have blocked them from the natives.

do harm spirits are tortured, do no harm spirits travel the universe.

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7 hours ago, Old Tom said:

I'm not biting bro.  Been seriously ill for the last six months and Doc says to save my breath for when I really need it.  This is not a valid subject to expound upon so you and I can just agree to disagree.  :shake2:

Tom,

Take it easy my friend. Don't sweat it.

Propaganda like the post above is designed to make you emotional. It is nothing but political screed. It is meant to get someone whipped up into a frenzy.

You are answering to that willingly. Stop letting this BS suck you in. This is political crap put out by political organizations and spread by political partisans. Life is too short to dwell on lies like this. 

Our country needs men who can ignore the social pressure to conform to a partisan ideology. That pressure to conform is immense and growing by the day.

It sounds like your health is being affected by that pressure. Political propaganda is a powerful drug that guys like you should avoid. Getting wrapped up in it is not worth health or happiness. Or even internet friendships. It is only an issue for a very few who dwell upon these things.

Take it easy Tom. I love you brother and I want you to be around for a long time. 

Bob

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7 hours ago, Bedrock Bob said:

l. It is nothing but political screed. It is meant to get someone whipped up into a frenzy.

You are answering to that willingly. Stop letting this BS suck you in. This is political crap put out by political organizations and spread by political partisans. Life is too short to dwell on lies like this. 

Our country needs men who can ignore the social pressure to conform to a partisan ideology. That pressure to conform is immense and growing by the day.

Thank you for framing the AGW cult  hysteria perfectly( though unwittingly).

More on topic, noone is saying players cannot demonstrate, just that they should do it on their own time, and in a way that garners more support. That is the goal is it not?

Ticket sales are down, as well as viewership.

Colon Kapernumbskull really did not think things through.

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Spectator sports aren't really sports. They are selling beer to fat guys in recliner chairs. And providing a platform for gambling. Neither of which interest people much anymore.

Now days people engage in sports like running,climbing and cycling. Sports are HUGE. Just not sports on TV.

I think everyone can see that spectator sports are for folks who watch television. And those people are older and less active. And probably more likely to be offended when a player makes a statement that they feel uncomfortable with. They are fewer and fewer too. Most working folks and active people don't even have a TV now days. 

I think the goal was to put it in the viewers face. And I am pretty sure those players know who their viewers are. It seems their little show worked swimmingly. Lots of viewers are jumping up out of their sweat soaked recliners and bellowing louder than they have in years. 

I have no idea what AGW cult hysteria is or what you mean by that statement. I don't see any hysteria besides the folks whining about them kneeling.

If the issue was just them protesting on their own time the right would not be trying to paint them as unpatriotic, anti police and pro criminal.The issue is a lot deeper than the way they express themselves.

This is a conversation that cannot be had on honest terms with either partisan crowd. It is my opinion these men who are kneeling are the only ones who may be viewing this issue honestly. At least they are taking a stand. This is a lot more than most men are willing to do.

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5 hours ago, Morlock said:

All of a sudden? Contemporaneous with the NFL issue? What explains the apparent gradual return of normalcy to sales which seem to be back on the upswing compared to the peak of the knee-jerk phenomenon ? Millennials have always had that (see above), tendency, No? The traditional mainstream American public didn't like it, and voted at the ticket office.

It had nothing to do with politics or partisan ideology. 

I'm not necessarily a big fan of the NFL, but I am a fan of standing for the National Anthem. Sitting is fine, if that's what people want to do, to make a point or whatever other reasons that is deemed necessary or important, or for no reason at all! This is America! We all have protected freedoms. But we should bear in mind that those choices may have social consequences.

Linking arms to show solidarity and to protest injustice is cool as far as I'm concerned. A Black power symbol at the Olympics back in the day was not so cool.

As was said in the original post, taking a knee is simply a "misguided disrespectful symbolism" It doesn't have to be intentional! It is perceived to be disrespectful by fans and tickets buyers and therein lies the problem.

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You choose to perceive it in the way that suits you best. Just like you choose to portray them as unpatriotic, privileged and ungrateful in your prepared right wing propaganda post.

This isn't about the "perception of the ticket buyers" and we both know it.

The reason they are protesting is a very valid one and that is why we go through these contortions to avoid talking about it.

This isn't about them knocking the chip off your shoulder or how offended you or anyone else may be by their actions. They are simply kneeling for the Anthem at a football game for heaven's sake.

This is about unarmed men being killed with regularity by lawmen who are scared and unsuited for the jobs they are doing. And about a whole bunch of partisans refusing to talk about it and trying to change the conversation.

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Talk about it all you want. No body's stopping you. Just put your on your big boys pants and tell us what life is all about Bob.  You are so hung up on political references, such as right wing propaganda etc. that you intentionally avoid the issue: which is: Why ticket sales decreased dramatically.  I haven't been to an NFL game in many years and don't watch the games on TV, but the "prepared post" in many ways, does  fit the facts. 

By the way, I don't necessarily disagree with the players beef regarding certain elements of social justice.  However, I do believe that their manner of protest was a bad choice, for the reasons mentioned. And you may have noticed, the fans were not all right wingers. Just everyday Americans.

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You are editing faster than I can keep up with you. Pick a story Bob, and stick with it! I never said the protests weren't valid. There is a lot of validity in their anger and frustration. You could have seen it first hand if you had ever worn a uniform and served a day in your life instead of watching it on TV.

Or, if you possessed an ounce of patriotism, you could possibly understand what the flag, the anthem, and the USA means to those who do!  And those people are the fans, the ticket buyers and the customers who buy the products advertised on the networks that broadcast those games.

I have been horrified and disgusted by many of the shootings I have seen on television. I couldn't agree more that some of the shootings we see, do happen because the cops were "scared", adrenaline racing, tunnel vision and other physiological factors. There are many reasons for this, poor training, lack of experience, lack of supervision, and some that are "unsuited" for the job. I don't have a problem with any of that. But when you choose to suit up to make your millions of dollars before the paying public, it is about who's paying your salaries and buying those products. Yes, it is about perception. And it is about ticket sales.

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Why the disparaging personal observations Mac? 

Is this the way intelligent men discuss things?

Are you afraid to discuss this as equals?

 

 

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Well how about the price of a ticket ? that is one of my preceptions, i don't know about you but i dont't  have hundreds of dollars for a game where your favorite player just moved to another team for more money, and now they just lost another boat load of millennials too!  What is so disrespectful about kneeling is that not what people do in a church ? One other thing is i think they are doing this on their own time, they are on the sidelines and the game has not even began. I thought they were payed to play a game and entertain, and if you ask me that's what they are doing. At the same time peacefully making a statement, that says Houston we have a problem!

ht

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The player's time may be bought and paid for. Not the way they express their personal beliefs. That can't be bought and sold no matter how bad the partisans would like it to be.

I pray to my god and pledge to my country the way I personally see fit. The players do too. The cameras flock to them to see them in action both on and off the field. Their voices and actions loom large and they are using that to try and address a serious problem in this country.

Rather than do a darn thing about the problem the partisans are lining up to paint them as something less. This is because they are afraid of how large their voices have become.

Pretending to be "more patriotic" than those who disagree with you is like pissing on the flag in my opinion. We all love this country and have served and sacrificed for it. All of our opinions are valid.

When someone starts waving the flag now days it is not to glorify this country but to identify themselves as "Patriots" in contrast to those they would regard as less. This is demonstrated in high definition in the posts above.

The facts are we have a serious policing problem in this country. And neither partisan is willing to have an honest discussion about it. Whenever the subject comes up it must be about patriotism or racism. Both are disingenuous excuses to take advantage of the problem rather than address it.

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Please take your personal differences to private messages if you must continue this 'discussion.'. You all know where this is headed and it's not going to further much. Changing opinions by arguing on the internet is a hapless pastime. May I suggest some detecting as an alternative?

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37 minutes ago, FlakMagnet said:

Please take your personal differences to private messages. You both know where this is headed and it's not really going to further much.

He is allowed to post political topics and make personal attacks. I have done neither.

Yeah. We know where this is headed and why. 

As long as you will let him post screed and then attack me for my opinion I will keep it up. The only one out of bounds here is Mac. This was and still is a healthy discussion outside of his attacks. 

This isn't about "both of us". This is about lack of moderation. You are letting him insult and get personal and then blaming us "both" when I won't roll over and take it. That is horse crap and everyone here knows it.

 

 

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Bob, my post did not condone anyones posts. My point was - and you left this out of your clip of my post -  that changing opinions by arguing on the internet is a hapless pastime. I am not going to get involved in the disagreement, everyone can plainly see where the problems lie. None of this disagreement could move anywhere without two people being involved.

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The issue is not the topic of discussion Flak. It is how one of us is insulting the other and making disparaging personal observations.

My clip of your post was done by clicking the "Quote" button. I left nothing out that was posted at the time of my reply.

Again, you need to moderate bad behavior. It isn't about the fact that we disagree. It is about the fact that we cannot have differing opinions without ONE OF US stooping to insults. 

He posted a topic he knew would be contentious and then started the insults. This isn't a matter of "two being involved in a disagreement". This is a matter of one needing to throw insults to make his point. 

When a fellow attacks another on this forum the moderators should grow a spine and call it like it is. Otherwise he will simply continue this childish behavior because he is allowed to. 

I elected not to tangle with him after he insulted me and questioned my patriotism and this is what I get. I did this out of respect for this forum and the moderators. I won't make that same mistake the next time. 

 

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