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Lights Over Phoenix


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41 minutes ago, ATP said:

For the nonbelievers, look at the gunsight footage recently released by the military from their fighter jets. There is more to see there than lights! You can see the actual object and the pilots talking about how they have it on auto track, since it would be hard to follow manually. Then they talk about the rapid changes in direction and altitude in amazement. These are pilots who are used to every aspect of modern aviation seeing something they can't explain. Now, these guys are the experts in the air with actual gunsight footage, that is hard to argue against. Look it up on youtube, and explain it differently or support the evidence! Now all that is in today's world, but in the time of Columbus, he documents seeing lights moving in the sky above his sailing ship! Now that certainly wasn't any aircraft made by man, back before 1500! 

Perhaps you could post a link to the video.  Also, the same for Columbus's lights.  I did not see a google search for the Phoenix incident, except for the debunked phoenix lights.  For the Columbus incident, the light that barely broke the horizon and settled down like a candle going up and down was spotted by a guy in the mast and is thought to be the light from a native fire at night from an island that was in the direction and distance of the sighting.  Native Americans did have fire back then.

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Hey Chrisski, I went back and edited my post to tell you how to find these subjects on youtube! Columbus's diary actually said they saw an object rising from the water, that ain't no camp fire! But they had more than one sighting too. At least we know that man didn't have any craft capable of what he saw, but watch the video and make up you own mind! I see you are from Phoenix, I love the place, used to go through there driving or flying to southwestern Colorado hunting and on several occasions saw the balloon festival, a pretty site from the air. Maybe I will make it out there again someday and we can go up in Colorado to metal detect a few areas we found while hunting. One of the guys found a Calvary button on top of the ground. So far none of us has made it back out there with a detector! 

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2 hours ago, ATP said:

For the nonbelievers, look at the gunsight footage recently released by the military from their fighter jets. There is more to see there than lights! You can see the actual object and the pilots talking about how they have it on auto track, since it would be hard to follow manually. Then they talk about the rapid changes in direction and altitude in amazement. These are pilots who are used to every aspect of modern aviation seeing something they can't explain. Now, these guys are the experts in the air with actual gunsight footage, that is hard to argue against. Look it up on youtube, and explain it differently or support the evidence! Now all that is in today's world, but in the time of Columbus, he documents seeing lights moving in the sky above his sailing ship! Now that certainly wasn't any aircraft made by man, back before 1500!  OK someone requested links, so here is how to find documentation, go to YouTube and punch in UFO Diary by Christopher Columbus 1492, then while on YouTube punch in Miltary Pilots filming UFO's and you will get about 30 different videos on the subject with actual gunsight footage. Now after watching all that If you still have doubts I would recommend forget trying to convince yourself or trying to argue the point. Believe what you want but this has been covered up for years. 

Taking refuge in doubt and disbelief serves a useful purpose of calming fear of the unknown. This may be the reasoning behind the decision of governments that have previously hesitated in disclosing or confirming physical evidence of U.F.O.'s. It is much easier (and safer), to simply reject their existence than to grapple with unknowable and possibly foreboding explanations.

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  • 1 year later...

Preliminary Assessment: Unidentified Aerial Phenomena. 

On 25 June 2021, The Office of the Director of National Intelligence released it's congressionally mandated report on the subject of UFO/UAP activity involving the U.S. military. The declassified report documents 143 incidents from 2004 to 2021. While the report found no evidence of aliens, it did find that UAPs could pose a threat to national security. The report issued by the intelligence community and the Department of Defense did not definitively determine what the military personnel saw.

 https://www.dni.gov/files/ODNI/documents/assessments/Prelimary-Assessment-UAP-20210625.pdf 

 

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4 hours ago, BMc said:

The report issued by the intelligence community and the Department of Defense did not definitively determine what the military personnel saw.

 

They didn't determine what they saw. That is the case with every sighting. Only the unexplained ones cause our imagination to run wild and make us think they must be from another planet.

How anyone can come to the conclusion that UFO's are from outer space is baffling. There is no evidence of that at all. Not one shred.

There are lights. There are objects. What they are and where they come from is unknown and always has been. Only in the past few decades have people been imagining them as extraterrestrial. Before that they were demons. Or gods.

We don't know what they are. We are clueless. So we fill the gaps in our knowledge with beliefs. The only other choice is to simply admit we have no idea. 

If the Russians came here in saucer shaped vehicles we would swear they were from outer space. If aliens came in jet fighters we would think they were Russians. 

Go figure.

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I'm actually appalled our government is spending so much time and money on UFOs.  Actually investigating for aliens is not appalling, insane perhaps.

 

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45 minutes ago, chrisski said:

I'm actually appalled our government is spending so much time and money on UFOs.  Actually investigating for aliens is not appalling, insane perhaps.

 

I don't think they are investigating for aliens Chris. They are reports of unexplained sightings. There are no aliens involved. Just objects and lights. Data. Photographs and videos. 

There are several explanations for these sightings. There is not enough hard data to rule out any of them. So we can pick any explanation we want. Some people want to believe these are aliens. But im not sure the military is investigating aliens. They are just investigating the objects that the pilots saw. That is purely strategic and has nothing to do with aliens.

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There's a whole group of people that not only believe in aliens, they've even classified them into specific groups based on their homeworld. A long time friend of mine whom I met years ago is an example. He's got them classified into two groups..the blues and the greys. We had many arguments over this to no avail. There's no doubt in my mind he thinks the government is still hiding something even after the latest report came out.

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1 minute ago, Morlock said:

There's a whole group of people that not only believe in aliens, they've even classified them into specific groups based on their homeworld. A long time friend of mine whom I met years ago is an example. He's got them classified into two groups..the blues and the greys. We had many arguments over this to no avail. There's no doubt in my mind he thinks the government is still hiding something even after the latest report came out.

There are 5 types of idiots. They are all classified by their beliefs in ridiculous BS with no shred of evidence. I have them all classified by their particular fantasy.

It's just fine to dream and imagine. But when you insist your imagination is reality and you build upon that fantasy it is unhealthy.

Lots of peoe are believing in ridicous crap now days. Most of it is to find acceptance within a group. For some iit is a substitute for "knowledge" they wish they had. 

I think everyone accepts there are things out there that are unexplained. And very few will try to say that the sightings are all just hoaxes, insanity and lies. But when people start filling in the blanks with made up bullcrap and expecting others to accept it, it becomes a sickness.

I have noticed that the same people who think unexplained phenomena is the work of space aliens also believe in other bizarre crap too. They are easily led into conspiracy theories, political lies and spiritual dogma. There is a certain type of person that is prone to believing without knowing.

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4 hours ago, Bedrock Bob said:

There are 5 types of idiots. They are all classified by their beliefs in ridiculous BS with no shred of evidence. I have them all classified by their particular fantasy.

It's just fine to dream and imagine. But when you insist your imagination is reality and you build upon that fantasy it is unhealthy.

Lots of peoe are believing in ridicous crap now days. Most of it is to find acceptance within a group. For some iit is a substitute for "knowledge" they wish they had. 

I think everyone accepts there are things out there that are unexplained. And very few will try to say that the sightings are all just hoaxes, insanity and lies. But when people start filling in the blanks with made up bullcrap and expecting others to accept it, it becomes a sickness.

I have noticed that the same people who think unexplained phenomena is the work of space aliens also believe in other bizarre crap too. They are easily led into conspiracy theories, political lies and spiritual dogma. There is a certain type of person that is prone to believing without knowing.

I hear ya Bob. Please tell us a bit more about your 5 fantasy classes of idiots.

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4 hours ago, Dakota Slim said:

I hear ya Bob. Please tell us a bit more about your 5 fantasy classes of idiots.

"Idiots" was probably the wrong word Slim. It was derogatory and was not really a good description. I apologize if I struck a nerve. It is very difficult to grasp how sensitive some in this audience are. I realize my opinions can be abrasive and I understand that you are easily offended by them.

These are not idiots. These are simply people who believe in something that has no basis in objective fact. They seek out others that think like they do. They may believe so strongly that they try to convince others to share their beliefs.

In extreme cases they become intolerant and demand others share their opinions. Some even act aggressively towards those that do not adopt their beliefs. 

So rather than the term "Idiots" I should have used a more neutral adjective to describe them. Some are indeed idiots but the term "believers" or "adherents" is probably a much better descriptor. "Peculiar" or "eccentric" might also be more appropriate.

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In a little over 100 years, lowly humans here on earth have developed flying machines ranging from the Wright brothers' crude airplane to hypersonic aircraft. Considering the age of the universe and the untold number of habitable planets, it is conceivable that other intelligent life on other planets are millions of years ahead of us. 
The big question is, how will any advance extraterrestrial beings visiting earth interact with with us earthly humans? 

UFO experts on intelligence report: 'Whatever this is, it is more complex than we can possibly imagine'

https://www.foxnews.com/us/ufo-experts-say-were-looking-in-all-the-wrong-places

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14 hours ago, Dakota Slim said:


The big question is, how will any advance extraterrestrial beings visiting earth interact with with us earthly humans? 
 

I think the big question is "Do UFOs have anything to do with extraterrestrial intelligence?".

There is no indication that the things that we are seeing come from another planet. That is just one of many theories on what they may be based on absolutely nothing more than our lack of ability to explain them.

It is just like a guy posting a rock he thinks is a meteorite. He knows nothing about rocks nor meteorites but he BELIEVES his rock came from space. He believes that because he sees no other explanation based on his lack of knowledge.

In the same respect when we see lights or objects we can't explain we assume they came from space based on our lack of knowledge. We just can't imagine any other explanation so we believe something with no objective evidence to keep from having to admit we have no idea.

Just because we see things we don't understand does not mean they came from space. It just means it came from beyond our understanding. 

There is ample evidence to show that there are lights and objects appearing in our skies that we cannot explain. There is not one shred of evidence to support what we are seeing is a product of extraterrestrial intelligence.

If you honestly want to know how an advanced life form would interact with us the only basis for assumption would be to observe how humans interact with lower life forms.

Based on that observation the interaction would probably not be to our liking.

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4 minutes ago, Bedrock Bob said:

There is not one shred of evidence to support what we are seeing is a product of extraterrestrial intelligence.

That may be true. Have you seen all the classified information? Have you spoken to Harry Reid?
If not, then how can you be so sure?
Saying that you haven't seen any evidence might be accurate. Saying it doesn't exist is laughable.    
 

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What evidence have you seen or heard about that indicate UFO's are extraterrestrial in origin?

I certainly have never heard of any. If it is "laughable" then you must have heard something to be so amused. What might that evidence be?

Have you been speaking with Harry Reid and reading classified information?

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Harry Reid will just lie to you guys! I would look for a better source lol.

Maybe Harry is an alien??

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2 hours ago, Dakota Slim said:

I agree that Reid is not a reliable source. Same with Bedrock Bob.

You quoted Harry Reid as a source of information Slim. Now you say he is not a reliable source. Are you confused or is it just me?

I find it "laughable" that you would claim there is evidence that UFOs came from space and cite Harry Reid as a source. Then immediately switch positions when asked to back your statement up. 

I have never claimed to be a source for information. As a matter of fact I clearly stated I knew of no information that indicated UFOs were of extraterrestrial origin. I even went so far as to assert no evidence existed.

I still hold that position unless you can provide something that refutes that.

Why don't we talk about the topic like adults?

Why don't you tell us how these unexplained sightings may have come from another planet? Give me a reason why I should accept that explanation. Tell us why you mentioned Harry Reid. Give me insight into what the classified documents might say.

... Or continue sniping at me like a child that needs a nap. However you want to handle it is just groovy with me.

 

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6 hours ago, Bedrock Bob said:

You quoted Harry Reid as a source of information Slim. Now you say he is not a reliable source. Are you confused or is it just me?

I find it "laughable" that you would claim there is evidence that UFOs came from space and cite Harry Reid as a source. Then immediately switch positions when asked to back your statement up. 

I have never claimed to be a source for information. As a matter of fact I clearly stated I knew of no information that indicated UFOs were of extraterrestrial origin. I even went so far as to assert no evidence existed.

I still hold that position unless you can provide something that refutes that.

Why don't we talk about the topic like adults?

Why don't you tell us how these unexplained sightings may have come from another planet? Give me a reason why I should accept that explanation. Tell us why you mentioned Harry Reid. Give me insight into what the classified documents might say.

... Or continue sniping at me like a child that needs a nap. However you want to handle it is just groovy with me.

 


No one is sniping except you Bob. Maybe you need a nap. Because these sightings remain mysteries, anything is possible. You changed my initial question and proceeded to snipe away. It's all there for everyone to read. 
NASA Administrator Bill Nelson believes we are not alone in the universe
https://www.foxnews.com/science/nasa-administrator-bill-nelson-not-alone-universe

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7 hours ago, Bedrock Bob said:

You quoted Harry Reid as a source of information Slim. Now you say he is not a reliable source. Are you confused or is it just me?

I find it "laughable" that you would claim there is evidence that UFOs came from space and cite Harry Reid as a source. Then immediately switch positions when asked to back your statement up. 

I have never claimed to be a source for information. As a matter of fact I clearly stated I knew of no information that indicated UFOs were of extraterrestrial origin. I even went so far as to assert no evidence existed.

I still hold that position unless you can provide something that refutes that.

Why don't we talk about the topic like adults?

Why don't you tell us how these unexplained sightings may have come from another planet? Give me a reason why I should accept that explanation. Tell us why you mentioned Harry Reid. Give me insight into what the classified documents might say.

... Or continue sniping at me like a child that needs a nap. However you want to handle it is just groovy with me.

 

Here's some more info, hot off the press....
 

EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT THE PENTAGON’S UFO REPORT

For those who feel abducted by the recent UFO hype, this one’s for you

https://www.theverge.com/22550116/uap-ufo-pentagon-report-aliens

 

 

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20 hours ago, nugget108 said:

Harry Reid will just lie to you guys! I would look for a better source lol.

Maybe Harry is an alien??

Actually, (politics aside), Harry Reid appears to be the one who initially got the ball rolling back in 2007 by appropriating 200 million dollars to investigate/study UFO phenomenon before he left office. The investigation apparently was ongoing and numerous sightings were being documented over  period of several years, when the information and video was inevitably leaked to the press. Once the cat was out of the bag, congress demanded answers and a 6 month deadline was set to produce both a classified report for congressional review and a non-classified version for public release. Reid stated publicly that he was aware of hundreds and hundreds of documented sightings not just the few that were selected for the reports that were released.

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11 hours ago, Bedrock Bob said:

there is evidence that UFOs came from space.

 

:inocent:wrong again, Bob.

Most all UFO's come from  this world- out of Rothschild's  hangar out at area 52.

The Bilderberger's are still packing up at 51.

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