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Does this composition verify that my meteorite is from Venus?

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These rocks I found match all of the Venus mission data collected exactly and even has the same potassium to thorium ratio/slope described here with all of the planets against each other:   https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/messenger/multimedia/messenger_orbit_image 

It's a full spectrum assay in percents: SiO2 50.62, Al2O3 24.32, Fe2O3 12.79, MnO .218, MgO 1.48, CaO 4.42, Na2O .56, K2O 2.62, TiO2 1.349, P2O5 .26
And the rest in ppm: Sc 30, Be 17, V 235, Cr 110, Co 34, Ni 70, Cu 70, Zn <30, Ga 7, Ge <1, As <5, Rb 123, Sr 892, Y 79, Zr 243, Nb 26, Mo 5, Ag .8, Ln <.2, Sn 2, Sb <.5, Cs 7.9, Ba 939, La 78.2, Ce 152, Pr 18, Nd 67, Sm 14 Eu 2.92, Gd 13.1, Tb 2.2, Dy 13.5, Ho 2.7, Er 7.8, Tm 1.14, Yb 7.4, Lu 1.11, Hf 6.9, Ta 2, W 3, Tl <.1, Pb <5, Bi .4, Th 26.6, U 10.1. It's a full spectrum assay in percents: SiO2 50.62, Al2O3 24.32, Fe2O3 12.79, MnO .218, MgO 1.48, CaO 4.42, Na2O .56, K2O 2.62, TiO2 1.349, P2O5 .26 Here is a link to the Venus paper.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://lasp.colorado.edu/~espoclass/ASTR_5835_2015_Readings_Notes/Treiman-EVTP.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwj4x-ut6MHkAhVHCjQIHdpaATs4ChAWMAR6BAgGEAE&usg=AOvVaw0fsok78qq0c7Fh3J-U2FC2

It looks weird but it has honeycomb ripples and is oriented with a bullet side and lipped side:

http://imgur.com/gallery/mrYXAXu

Are there still chances it isn't a meteorite? The average Venus slope from the potassium link is equivalent to it, so I did calculus on it, what should I do next? I am also trying to sell but I also want to save some for science lol if it's real.

Thanks

Edit By AuSeeker to add photos.8UQxfra.jpg

rY2v7z3.jpg

 

 

Edited by Au Seeker
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WillM,

Thank you for the pic link showing what you've got. Private message Auseeker who can help you post directly. I am far more concerned as to whether your stone is a meteorite. The pic shows it has no characteristics of a meteorite whatsoever. It is terrestrial.

As to the array full spectrum I will leave that discussion up to those who know that field. There has never been a confirmed meteorite from Venus. It would be extremely difficult for an asteroid impact to blast rock out into the higher Earth orbit, but not impossible. Get you hands on actual, confirmed meteorites, read and learn about their characteristics.

Keep looking down. They're out there.

billpeters

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I've never seen a meteorite of any type with vesicles like those in your picture. Will defer to the experts as to whether or not it's a venusian meteorite.

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Looks like lava with a heathy head of lichen on top. I of course might be wrong.:)

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Yes, there is still a chance that you don't have a meteorite from Venus.

Your assay shows 50% silica with aluminum oxides and iron oxides as 87% of the mass. It is full of gas bubbles.

What you have is a slag Chia pet. I will bet my nuggets on it.

I cant believe you did a full spectrum assay on this rock and left the salad growing on it. :)

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Thanks everyone , I know it is not slag because slag is a grab-bag of shapes and there is an entire batch of these I do not know if I found the main mass yet. As you can see, the holes are flat and the edges are lipped. These all follow a similar pattern of aero shape.

image3A12602_mirror.jpg

image3A12577_mirror.jpg

Edited by WillM
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3 hours ago, Morlock said:

I've never seen a meteorite of any type with vesicles like those in your picture. Will defer to the experts as to whether or not it's a venusian meteorite.

If it is Venusian, no one could figure it out anyway, so might as well stop trying . . . it's female! :)

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That`s quite a collection of slag  ....Well done !

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I am a high school dropout and I don't do calculus. But you are obviously an educated man. Explain how all the metals in that assay were oxidized on Venus. I hear the atmosphere on that rock is pure carbon dioxide. I had to Google it to be sure but the rumor is true.

I do weld and I know carbon dioxide is a heavy gas and displaces oxygen. So this country boy is figuring any metals on Venus are probably unoxidized. But that is just a wild guess. I honestly don't know. Wikipedia doesn't get that deep.

Now look at the composition of your material. Silica and oxidized metal make up 87% of the weight. Silica and oxidized metal with bubbles is slag isn't it? :idunno:

I have never seen a Venutian meteorite so I have no idea what one might look like. I have only seen a hatful of meteorites so I am not sure what any meteorite looks like. But I have seen thousands of metric tons of slag. I am a certified Slagologist. (It is a trade school certification that does not require any math past Algebra I).

It looks like slag and the data sounds like slag to me.  IMHO you have yourself some. But that is just a Slagologist's opinion and I am wrong all the time.

I think you need the opinion of a real expert. 

Good luck man!

Bob

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WillM,

You have common slag. I have seen thousands of pieces like yours. There is no difference in the appearance of yours and common slag. None are meteorites. Slag is normally magnetic. Some day a meteorite may be found that will be identified as probably coming from Venus, but it will have no similarity to your stone.

Study meteorite identification and obtain reputable meteorites. Talk to the experts and maybe tag along for a hunt of a known strewnfield. Finding a verified meteorite takes days and long hours of hard work, but the success is worth it. 

billpeters

Edited by billpeters
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55 minutes ago, Bedrock Bob said:

I hear the atmosphere on that rock is pure carbon dioxide....figuring any metals on Venus are probably unoxidized. 

I would not know Venutian slag from Martian sandstone, nor  the VOP-Venutian Oxidation Potential -of high pressure CO2 combined with SO2@ 150ppm(rotten egg gas is smelly at less than 1 ppm) that Venus has...

Sulfur dioxide breaks down into sulfuric acid.whether it does on Venus, I will let you know next time I visit....googled.... clouds of sulfuric acid, but it evaporates before hitting the ground.

Betting on Earth Slag by 6 lengths.

Edited by Stillweaver hillbelli

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Any iron mining in the area, old smelters?Mining History we can dig up?

Where found?

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When the first martian meteorite was verified (for lack of a better word) it was done by analysis of gasses trapped within the stone which matched exactly to the Martian atmosphere as sampled by the Viking lander, not an assay of the mineral composition of the stone.  Every rocky body in our solar system formed from the same material, so you cannot determine a parent body solely from the mineral constituents of the rock.

Edited by Mikestang
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17 hours ago, Stillweaver hillbelli said:

Any iron mining in the area, old smelters?Mining History we can dig up?

Where found?

This was a secluded area from mining and access, it would have taken carrying about 50 pounds of material and sprinkling them so they were hard to find, a single related specimen was found a super long ways away from the larger pieces of material. That formed the basis of my hypothesis. The pattern of sizes of rocks strewn aldo suggested meteor. I am only making the assumption that the data used to describe the mechanism is correct: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/f88e/f47755efd9db757c34ee6419b40b64b511b6.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjVwuac4cTkAhVvhq0KHa6tBKsQFjABegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw22ZesCIplEkrxL4pQ2bn_5 and it follows that the line drawings used to demonstrate the fluid dynamics of meteorite pitting and ablation, I am simply taking this a step further and putting line drawing features from the paper to predict wild new outcomes, such as the material ejecting from a vug like the rocket blast in the paper, and the "A" shaped blast radius creating a single tubular peak of material. These anomolous similarities within these rocks convinced me. I need to know the best way to test it for atmosphere, as Venus is known to have been like Earth before a giant impact abnormally increased it's volitility, and changed the direction of the rotation of the planet. So an oxygenated atmosphere would be predictable as well. I will look up mining history. They also do not have "bubbles" which include curved rimmed lips from the bubble's expansion of gases, these holes are flat as possible, it also appears to have had explosive/extra expansive rippling because it should also have had water. Some of these have natural holes, some of these have cracks, I have a perfect prop example of every meteorite shape because of the moderate chemistry. Slag is created in a chaotic manner, these all have honeycomb ripples regmaglypts, I even have some aubrite I found that had bees using it as a honeycomb, "they are still in there". 😂👽 Slag splashes. Slag is a grab bag. It all makes sense atleast to me.

20190909_183311.jpg

Edited by WillM
Notyfing spelling

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17 hours ago, Stillweaver hillbelli said:

Any iron mining in the area, old smelters?Mining History we can dig up?

Where found?

 

55 minutes ago, Mikestang said:

When the first martian meteorite was verified (for lack of a better word) it was done by analysis of gasses trapped within the stone which matched exactly to the Martian atmosphere as sampled by the Viking lander, not an assay of the mineral composition of the stone.  Every rocky body in our solar system formed from the same material, so you cannot determine a parent body solely from the mineral constituents of the rock.

 

17 hours ago, Stillweaver hillbelli said:

I would not know Venutian slag from Martian sandstone, nor  the VOP-Venutian Oxidation Potential -of high pressure CO2 combined with SO2@ 150ppm(rotten egg gas is smelly at less than 1 ppm) that Venus has...

Sulfur dioxide breaks down into sulfuric acid.whether it does on Venus, I will let you know next time I visit....googled.... clouds of sulfuric acid, but it evaporates before hitting the ground.

Betting on Earth Slag by 6 lengths.

 

17 hours ago, billpeters said:

WillM,

You have common slag. I have seen thousands of pieces like yours. There is no difference in the appearance of yours and common slag. None are meteorites. Slag is normally magnetic. Some day a meteorite may be found that will be identified as probably coming from Venus, but it will have no similarity to your stone.

Study meteorite identification and obtain reputable meteorites. Talk to the experts and maybe tag along for a hunt of a known strewnfield. Finding a verified meteorite takes days and long hours of hard work, but the success is worth it. 

billpeters

 

18 hours ago, Bedrock Bob said:

I am a high school dropout and I don't do calculus. But you are obviously an educated man. Explain how all the metals in that assay were oxidized on Venus. I hear the atmosphere on that rock is pure carbon dioxide. I had to Google it to be sure but the rumor is true.

I do weld and I know carbon dioxide is a heavy gas and displaces oxygen. So this country boy is figuring any metals on Venus are probably unoxidized. But that is just a wild guess. I honestly don't know. Wikipedia doesn't get that deep.

Now look at the composition of your material. Silica and oxidized metal make up 87% of the weight. Silica and oxidized metal with bubbles is slag isn't it? :idunno:

I have never seen a Venutian meteorite so I have no idea what one might look like. I have only seen a hatful of meteorites so I am not sure what any meteorite looks like. But I have seen thousands of metric tons of slag. I am a certified Slagologist. (It is a trade school certification that does not require any math past Algebra I).

It looks like slag and the data sounds like slag to me.  IMHO you have yourself some. But that is just a Slagologist's opinion and I am wrong all the time.

I think you need the opinion of a real expert. 

Good luck man!

Bob

 

19 hours ago, adam said:

That`s quite a collection of slag  ....Well done !

 

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42 minutes ago, WillM said:

This was a secluded area from mining and access, it would have taken carrying about 50 pounds of material and sprinkling them so they were hard to find, a single related specimen was found a super long ways away from the larger pieces of material. That formed the basis of my hypothesis. The pattern of sizes of rocks strewn aldo suggested meteor. I am only making the assumption that the data used to describe the mechanism is correct: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/f88e/f47755efd9db757c34ee6419b40b64b511b6.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjVwuac4cTkAhVvhq0KHa6tBKsQFjABegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw22ZesCIplEkrxL4pQ2bn_5 and it follows that the line drawings used to demonstrate the fluid dynamics of meteorite pitting and ablation, I am simply taking this a step further and putting line drawing features from the paper to predict wild new outcomes, such as the material ejecting from a vug like the rocket blast in the paper, and the "A" shaped blast radius creating a single tubular peak of material. These anomolous similarities within these rocks convinced me. I need to know the best way to test it for atmosphere, as Venus is known to have been like Earth before a giant impact abnormally increased it's volitility, and changed the direction of the rotation of the planet. So an oxygenated atmosphere would be predictable as well. I will look up mining history. They also do not have "bubbles" which include curved rimmed lips from the bubble's expansion of gases, these holes are flat as possible, it also appears to have had explosive/extra expansive rippling because it should also have had water. Some of these have natural holes, some of these have cracks, I have a perfect prop example of every meteorite shape because of the moderate chemistry. Slag is created in a chaotic manner, these all have honeycomb ripples regmaglypts, I even have some aubrite I found that had bees using it as a honeycomb, "they are still in there". 😂👽 Slag splashes. Slag is a grab bag. It all makes sense atleast to me.

20190909_183311.jpg

check out MinDat. always thought me fall rocks were lunar augite, because me only listed the elements one percent and above. but when adding the three elements .1 the formula came out to asteroite, which showed martian. 

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1 hour ago, wet/dry washer said:

check out MinDat. always thought me fall rocks were lunar augite, because me only listed the elements one percent and above. but when adding the three elements .1 the formula came out to asteroite, which showed martian. 

I searched Mindat and found that it matches the composition of the Earth just like Venus is supposed to. I fixed the graph with a mobile graphics program. As you can see they are seperating the planets with this ratio. This ratio is maintained through crazy math between two opposing chemical forces lol It is the exact ratio that was measured in my rock. That is by taking the average of the slopes to draw the planetary I.D. line. The rock was 2.62% K and 26.2 ppm or .00262% Th, that is 2.62%/.00262% or 1000! 1000/1 maintained this whole time, that is way off of Earth for sure. 👀

Screenshot_20190908-181645_Chrome_1568076925110_mirror.jpg

Edited by WillM
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So why are all the metals in oxide form when Venus has no oxygen? A question that should be answered before considering anything else IMHO.

It is simple to focus on the data that supports a conclusion. It is much more difficult to explain data that does not. That is the task at hand wouldn't you agree?

Your job is not to convince us it is a Venutian meteorite. Your job is to get science to accept it. I don't think anyone here that has any real experience with meteorites is going to give you any satisfaction. You are going to have to convince someone with experience in the field to look at your evidence.  No one here with experience in the field is buying it. Neither the appearance, composition or testing methodology seems to be what we recognize as valid.

From the data and photos you have posted it seems we all agree that it is slag. I am not sure that graphs, data and words is going to change that too much. 

That certainly does not mean what you have is not a meteorite or what you re doing is not valid. It just means that no one here recognizes it as such.

Good luck my friend!

Bob

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On 9/8/2019 at 8:23 PM, Bedrock Bob said:

Yes, there is still a chance that you don't have a meteorite from Venus.

Your assay shows 50% silica with aluminum oxides and iron oxides as 87% of the mass. It is full of gas bubbles.

What you have is a slag Chia pet. I will bet my nuggets on it.

I cant believe you did a full spectrum assay on this rock and left the salad growing on it. :)

 

On 9/8/2019 at 11:27 PM, adam said:

That`s quite a collection of slag  ....Well done !

 

On 9/9/2019 at 12:24 AM, Bedrock Bob said:

I am a high school dropout and I don't do calculus. But you are obviously an educated man. Explain how all the metals in that assay were oxidized on Venus. I hear the atmosphere on that rock is pure carbon dioxide. I had to Google it to be sure but the rumor is true.

I do weld and I know carbon dioxide is a heavy gas and displaces oxygen. So this country boy is figuring any metals on Venus are probably unoxidized. But that is just a wild guess. I honestly don't know. Wikipedia doesn't get that deep.

Now look at the composition of your material. Silica and oxidized metal make up 87% of the weight. Silica and oxidized metal with bubbles is slag isn't it? :idunno:

I have never seen a Venutian meteorite so I have no idea what one might look like. I have only seen a hatful of meteorites so I am not sure what any meteorite looks like. But I have seen thousands of metric tons of slag. I am a certified Slagologist. (It is a trade school certification that does not require any math past Algebra I).

It looks like slag and the data sounds like slag to me.  IMHO you have yourself some. But that is just a Slagologist's opinion and I am wrong all the time.

I think you need the opinion of a real expert. 

Good luck man!

Bob

 

On 9/9/2019 at 1:02 AM, billpeters said:

WillM,

You have common slag. I have seen thousands of pieces like yours. There is no difference in the appearance of yours and common slag. None are meteorites. Slag is normally magnetic. Some day a meteorite may be found that will be identified as probably coming from Venus, but it will have no similarity to your stone.

Study meteorite identification and obtain reputable meteorites. Talk to the experts and maybe tag along for a hunt of a known strewnfield. Finding a verified meteorite takes days and long hours of hard work, but the success is worth it. 

billpeters

 

On 9/9/2019 at 1:18 AM, Stillweaver hillbelli said:

I would not know Venutian slag from Martian sandstone, nor  the VOP-Venutian Oxidation Potential -of high pressure CO2 combined with SO2@ 150ppm(rotten egg gas is smelly at less than 1 ppm) that Venus has...

Sulfur dioxide breaks down into sulfuric acid.whether it does on Venus, I will let you know next time I visit....googled.... clouds of sulfuric acid, but it evaporates before hitting the ground.

Betting on Earth Slag by 6 lengths.

 

On 9/9/2019 at 1:29 AM, Stillweaver hillbelli said:

Any iron mining in the area, old smelters?Mining History we can dig up?

Where found?

 

18 hours ago, Mikestang said:

When the first martian meteorite was verified (for lack of a better word) it was done by analysis of gasses trapped within the stone which matched exactly to the Martian atmosphere as sampled by the Viking lander, not an assay of the mineral composition of the stone.  Every rocky body in our solar system formed from the same material, so you cannot determine a parent body solely from the mineral constituents of the rock.

It was found in a recreational area and there is no mining history on Wikipedia in the area and even like it nearby. I sent it to Smithsonian dirty to have them check first and retain the scientific value by also not putting a magnet to it, and they returned it and said it was basalt, I cleaned it off and it had an impossible natural hole that proved wind must have made it while it was boiling (they have strapped rocks to spaceships with cameras and watched them "boil" on re-entry), another lab said it was no match to anything microscopically, that it was likely foundry by-product. I want to be a slagologist that sounds cool, I used to work at a foundry in another state, I have worked with metal cold and hot for 12 hours straight for months. The fundamental theorem of calculus comes from the average slope, the average of the inputs of the data (that itself is a ratio). The shape makes me think it came from the sky, in real life, for lack of better terms, it looks like boiling metal that was stripped and stretched into a parabolic shape through lots of processes, we probably don't even have the tech to know about yet. I have similar rocks that when burned smell strongly of rotting eggs. I think it could be from Mercury. The Venusian ones might have smelled slightly of rotting eggs but only for a couple burns with a lighter. (One test). It looks like slag from implanted solar gas and similarity to Earth, some had no vesicles. The experts don't seem to be able to, or want to put it all together. I left the moss on it for aesthetic appeal, should I remove it? I found one under a tree that had a clear shiny crust still and I used vinegar to get rid of the ants in it, it became dull.

Thank you everyone

20190618_004746.jpg

20190910_114625.jpg

Edited by WillM
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"It looks like boiling metal that was stripped and stretched into a parabolic shape through lots of processes".

You observational skills are excellent! It was boiling metal! It was metal boiling in a pressurized, oxygen rich environment. In a silica flux. In other words slag.

It is exactly what the lab told you it was. A foundry by-product. Silica and oxidized metals. Your assay proves it.

If it formed outside Earth's environment those metals would not be oxidized. That is just basic chemistry. :)

 

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20190817_125743.jpg

Edited by WillM
Forgot to tag, image

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54 minutes ago, Bedrock Bob said:

So why are all the metals in oxide form when Venus has no oxygen? A question that should be answered before considering anything else IMHO.

It is simple to focus on the data that supports a conclusion. It is much more difficult to explain data that does not. That is the task at hand wouldn't you agree?

Your job is not to convince us it is a Venutian meteorite. Your job is to get science to accept it. I don't think anyone here that has any real experience with meteorites is going to give you any satisfaction. You are going to have to convince someone with experience in the field to look at your evidence.  No one here with experience in the field is buying it. Neither the appearance, composition or testing methodology seems to be what we recognize as valid.

From the data and photos you have posted it seems we all agree that it is slag. I am not sure that graphs, data and words is going to change that too much. 

That certainly does not mean what you have is not a meteorite or what you re doing is not valid. It just means that no one here recognizes it as such.

Good luck my friend!

Bob

The oxygen would presuppose the existence if carbon based algae-like life forms, this is the prevailing theory I saw about the oxygenstion of the earth, this rock's "moss" itself could be a dormant alien lol. I will be getting deeper knowledge and sharing with more people. You have to see them all in person, their relstionship to each other prove they are meteorites, like I said I have an example of any meteorite shape I have seen in my collection from the same strewn field if these are real. How can a piece of terrestrial material be symmetrical? Some of these are actually symmetrical like spaceships. Maybe I have to write the paper on the pattern and cite "A Fluid Dynamic Mechanism of Meteorite Pitting", as these shapes and patterns all follow but with unique characteristics (that do not disprove).

Edited by WillM
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29 minutes ago, WillM said:

The oxygen would presuppose the existence if carbon basred algae-like life forms, this is the prevailing theory I saw about the oxygenstion of the earth, this rock's "moss" itself could be a dormant alien lol. I will be getting deeper knowledge and sharing with more people. You have to see them all in person, their relstionship to each other prove they are meteorites, like I said I have an example of any meteorite shape I have seen in my collection from tge same strewn field if these are real. How can a piece of terrestrial material be symmetrical? Some of these are actually symmetrical like spaceships. Maybe I have to write the paper on the pattern and site "A Fluid Dynamic Mechanism of Meteorite Pitting", as these shapes and patterns all follow but with unique characteristics (that do not disprove).

 

We are anxious to hear your theories on the pattern and pitting! And calculus on fluid dynamics is the bomb! :thumbsupanim

So that is why you left the salad on that rock? You shrewd rascal! It might be an alien life form! That is fastidious my friend! Science is what you are.

You will find many kindred spirits here. You have already met Wet/Dry Washer or "bob". There is Jimale with many new meteorites from Kenya. And Odin with exploding Martian sandstone. Just to name a few.

You are in good company here and will find many friends!

Welcome to the forum! :ya:

Bob

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