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5 hours ago, Meteorite Tester said:

Well, since we have left the realm of simple and affordable testing alternatives, my vote is with ICP analysis.

Only you have left that realm. The rest of us dirt monkeys can tell the difference between a meteorite and most terrestrial rocks with a magnet and a piece of sandpaper.

If you have mineral iron you don't have a meteorite. And you differentiate mineral iron from free metallic iron by windowing/streaking the specimen before you do any other tests. If you find free metallic iron in the window you have a meteorite or an artifact. Free metallic iron rules out the possibility of a terrestrial stone. This is the standard procedure for meteorite ID in the field.

ONLY when you find free metallic iron is a nickel test of any use at all. Even then it is not definitive because most artifacts have nickel.

Yes, an ICP scan will give you a suite of elements and the suite can include nickel. But an XRF is cheaper (often free), faster and much more readily available. An XRF is the accepted methodology for determining nickel content because it makes the most sense. But testing for nickel by any means before you observe free metal in the interior makes no sense at all. 

 

 

 

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I would really  like to know where an XRF can be purchased cheaper than an ICP, and how you think an XRF is easier to use than dimethylgloxime?

on second thought, don’t bother, as I do not see any benefit to using a field kit composed of a magnet and a fingernail file

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Met Tester;

You seem well versed in some field related to lab testing. May I ask what your credentials are???

Also, have you ever collected meteorites in the field?

just curious

fred 

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1 hour ago, Meteorite Tester said:

I would really  like to know where an XRF can be purchased cheaper than an ICP, and how you think an XRF is easier to use than dimethylgloxime?

on second thought, don’t bother, as I do not see any benefit to using a field kit composed of a magnet and a fingernail file

No one is suggesting purchasing an XRF! Any construction materials testing outfit has one and charges about $35 to come and test within a 25 mile radius. It takes 15 seconds to get a result. If you take it to their place of business they usually shoot your rock for nothing. And every pawn shop and gold buyer has access to XRF if they don't actually own one. 

But you will need to file a window in the rock first. And unless you can see free metallic iron in the window your XRF test for nickel is irrelevant. Shoulda brought that fingernail file! :25r30wi:

What planet are you from Alan? 

You can get the ICP 28 element scan for about $50 bucks if you send a sample off. It will take a while to get results depending on the lab. Otherwise you need inroads to a lab that has one and they are a whole lot less common than an XRF gun. In neither case do you need to purchase the equipment.

You never have done any of this stuff have you? :idunno:

You do realize that we evaluate stones and ore every day don't you? The tests we are discussing are something that we all know about first hand. Both XRF testing and ICP. As well as GC/MS and atomic absorption. We see the obvious disconnects in your experience levels here. You need to come down to earth a bit my friend.

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There are several places you can have an XRF shot done for free or little charge with a hand-held gun; I don't think that alternative exists for ICP.

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Dirt Monkeys have XRF vision. Posers and meteorites stand out like rat turds on a workbench. 

Bedrock Bob

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I thought we were discussing testing, not having someone else test them, if someone else test them, then it is moot to even consider their choice of instruments or methods

you win Bob

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Posted (edited)
40 minutes ago, Meteorite Tester said:

I thought we were discussing testing, not having someone else test them, if someone else test them, then it is moot to even consider their choice of instruments or methods

you win Bob

Is that what you thought?  :25r30wi:

It seems like you went from field testing to nickel testing "ironstone" to an ICP scan. All on the path of trying to deny that a window/streak is the very first test that any meteorite hunter does on a suspect stone. And a simple streak/window is all that is needed to prove the OP's rock needs no further testing.

Your convoluted path brought you to this point. And now you thought we were discussing something else? :snapoutofit:

A few months ago we had a fellow on here by the name of "Seasoned Meteorite Hunter". He took stunning close ups of slag that were really impressive. He was a very informed individual much like yourself. Do you two know each other? 

Edited by Bedrock Bob
Nacho Cheese, Cool Ranch or Flamin' Hot?
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Posted (edited)

Posted by a person who knows so much about testing meteorites that he sends them to someone else, pathetic even for your level bob

Edited by Meteorite Tester

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Posted (edited)

Hello Fred

To answer your question, I am an ASQ certified metrologist, around 40 + years experience with analytical instrumentation, own my own company for the past 20 years, interested in meteorites as a hobby for around five or six years, who's counting, been field collecting twice, not a big fan of it, have tested samples for friends and others for that long, mostly irons, and lots of rocks that were not meteorites.

the irons easy to test, the others pose a real challenge, which is why sophisticated equipment is needed.

I am sure Bob will find something in this post to harp about as well, so be it.

Edited by Meteorite Tester

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36 minutes ago, Meteorite Tester said:

Posted by a person who knows so much about testing meteorites that he sends them to someone else, pathetic even for your level bob

Posted by a person who knows so little about testing meteorites that he does not recognize the basic field tests or testing methodology.

"Pathetic" was another insult. Ill not stoop to that. My point is not to insult you. It is to point out your obvious inexperience in the field. I think that is plain to everyone here by now. So I suppose my work is done! :4chsmu1:

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1 hour ago, Meteorite Tester said:

Good, now you can go find someone else to attack and make you feel good about yourself

I feel pretty good about myself because I am walking what I am talking. I don't have to BS anyone. I have almost four decades of experience at evaluating ore and meteorites and have evaluated a truckload of stones for every suspect meteorite you have ever seen. I have found a pile of meteorites too. All that before you ever had interest in the "hobby".

You were never attacked. You just did a Fandango trying to cover for your lack of knowledge when pressed on specifics. I realize that is uncomfortable and I just can't make it any easier for you. The methodology for differentiating a terrestrial stone from a meteorite does not change because you are unfamiliar with it.

It is a cruel hard world my friend. Some folks will smile and be polite when others try to feed them a spoon of poo. Some will pretend the poo isn't poo. Some will even pretend the poo is ice cream. But after 40 years of evaluating rocks I just don't have a taste for poo from a guy who obviously has no clue and throws insults around to try and compensate for it. I think you will find that is true with most Dirt Monkeys. 

It really makes no difference to me or the rocks. I call them like I see them based on my years of experience. Rocks and men alike.

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On 8/25/2019 at 6:52 AM, Dave's Not Here said:

Hello all.  I am a coin shooter, relic hunter, and bottle digger

Hey !   Welcome to the forum !  :4chsmu1:

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14 hours ago, Meteorite Tester said:

I did not ask and don’t care, save it for the interns 

You are the intern. :)

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On 8/25/2019 at 7:52 AM, Dave's Not Here said:

Hello all.  I am a coin shooter, relic hunter, and bottle digger. I have always paid attention to meteorite stories and think they are cool. But really never made time to look for them. 

Anyway, a few weeks ago I was kayaking on the river. I dumped my kayak at the dock and lost my keys in the water. No problem, I have a fishing magnet and came back later to get them. What did surprise me is finding a stone attacked to the magnet when I pulled it up out of the water. I have never encountered a rock like this before. 

From my limited googling it seems it could be a chondrites. But I am only guessing.

It is 63 grams. It has been in the water a long time and looks like a typically worn river stone. It likes to stick to the magnet, but must be low in ferrous metal, as it is not difficult to pull it from the magnet.

I did find another smaller stone stuck to the magnet, But I lost it. I am headed back after work next week to see if there are any more.

Any thought from the pics if it could be a chondrite? 

Thank you in advance for the help!

Dave

85EF34DC-4F3C-48AC-89AE-7D7895AA9801.jpeg

349349F3-F41D-4A5B-BFE4-849044814EB9.jpeg

Hey Dave!

If you want to see what we are arguing about and why,  do the simple iron test that I speak of. 

If your rock sticks to a magnet all you need to do is rub it across a handy grinding surface. Just grab it good and grind away a little spot. Observe the streak and peek in the window to determine if it is metallic iron or mineral iron that is attracting your magnet.

I use a piece of 80 grit silicon carbide sanding belt glued to a stick.

If the iron attracting the magnet is mineral there will be a streak. It will generally be shades of grey or shades of red. All natural earthly iron is mineral and will streak. These are not meteorites and can be tossed.

This simple test will eliminate 99% of all the rocks that stick to your magnet. 

Free metallic iron indicates either an terrestrial artifact (slag, tramp metal) or a meteorite. Metallic iron leaves a faint metallic streak and meteorites leave no particular color at all. So if your specimen leaves no streak and/or has free metal it is worth further investigation.

Most artifacts can be eliminated from this latter group by visual inspection. Only the rest warrant further testing. 

Please grind a window in your stone and do the basic field test for mineral iron. You take nice photos and I would be very grateful if you posted a photo of the streak and window. We can illustrate why this simple test is the first thing you do when you pull the rock off the magnet. 

Thanks for being so patient Dave. I apologize for all the crap. 

Bob

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Hello everybody. Thanks for all the replies and thoughts.

As suggested, I used my grinder to to expose what lies beneath. Definitely a meteor wrong.

Thank you for the education. I love learning new things and will use that if I find something else in the future.

 

Take care,

 

 

Dave

ROCK.jpg

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Excellent job Dave!

Based on your simple test this Dirt Monkey with lower than average intelligence can not only tell that your stone is terrestrial, but can also positively ID the mineral. It is magnetite. An terrestrial iron mineral.

The streak was hues of grey and not red wasn't it? And you can see in the window the material is sub-metallic (mineral) and not metallic like the iron you find in a meteorite! This is the simple test for mineral iron that you can do if there is any doubt about a rock that is attracted by a magnet. 

The concept is simple. Iron on earth is always oxidized because of our pressurized, oxygen rich environment. Meteoritic iron is never oxidized because it formed at zero pressure in an environment free of oxygen. This is just simple chemistry. Oxidized minerals are quite different and easily recognized. Testing requires nothing more than a quick observation. 

Differentiating mineral iron from free metallic iron is so easy even an ignorant Dirt Monkey can do it! All it takes is a little elbow grease and basic knowledge of how to ID minerals. 

Thanks again for your patience Dave. I am sorry the thread got so screwed up. Hopefully it was a learning experience for everyone including the interns. :)

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You are welcome, Bob. And thanks for the follow up lesson and info.

I was pretty aggressive with the "window" knowing that it was likely it was not a meteorite. What care should be taken if someday I happen to find stumble on a meteorite? I would guess marring the specimen would diminish it's value. 

 

Thanks!

 

Dave

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3 hours ago, Dave's Not Here said:

You are welcome, Bob. And thanks for the follow up lesson and info.

I was pretty aggressive with the "window" knowing that it was likely it was not a meteorite. What care should be taken if someday I happen to find stumble on a meteorite? I would guess marring the specimen would diminish it's value. 

 

Thanks!

 

Dave

Dave welcome to the forum!

To answer your question even though I'm not a certified meteorite dirt monkey, filing a window on any meteorite will not affect any potential value it may have.

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