Jump to content
Nugget Shooter Forums
Odinxgen

Could this be a sandstone meteorite, Seriously

Recommended Posts

Okay, so I know what everybody is going to say, There's no way. Please approach this with genuine curiosity and a desire to not only Identify this stone but to leave a valuable resource for others that may find a sandstone and think wow, that's a strange looking sandstone. As everybody here is well aware I am sure of the variations common to sandstone what I propose is this. Yes, this may be a terrestrial sandstone. that would be most likely of course, BUT given the recent research on mars this specimen is an excellent candidate for consideration as a TRUE SANDSTONE from mars. The location of the find was in a farmers rockpile near White shell Provincial park and if you are well researched in recent article on meteorites you may already be aware that this area of southeastern Manitoba is suspected to be a hot spot for meteorites from various places due to ancient glaciers colliding. There is ample research available online regarding this. according to this paper (https://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/LPSC99/pdf/1273.pdf) meteorite hunters should be on the lookout for White looking stones and I would go further given this sample that regmaglypts may not only be visible but are one of the key characteristics  for a hunter to identify and collect our first sedimentary meteorites. There was a time when scientists refused to accept that sedimentary meteorites existed and earnest research will prove to you that time is past. Recent studies done on the artificial meteorite STONE 5-6 show that meteorites from another planetary body that is capable of making sediment formations such as mars would produce sediments that would be capable of successfully landing on Earth. And this is my first point. It is not only possible but likely that the same meteorite that cracked mars open and rendered it desolate would have ejected vast amounts of what at that time was probably healthy sedimentary rock along with the prized igneous formations that are so treasured here on  Earth and that a ratio MUST exist between Igneous rocks and sedimentary ones where possible. Now If the regmaglypts on my sandstone are impressions made from differential weathering then it would be safe to assume this is a feature throughout the stone which it is not, it has imprints on all sides except for one, so a possible heat shield has been established  and may be another important clue. A quick point I would also like to make is that the Amateur geologist that manages our local rock shop Jacobs rocks and trading noted the significant weight that was unusual, while also stating that he is not an expert on meteorites and believes it is a sandstone of terrestrial origin... of course he would though, Asss nobody has ever found a sedimentary meteorite and even the witnessed falls are discounted as mere Pseudometeorites! So another possible key to true identification of this and one I just discovered today and is why I am reviving this after BedrockBob quickly and Thank you again Bedrock, put it to rest so to speak is because on the surface where the white side of the stone was exposed when found, I believed it was covered in algae. it was I'm sure to a point, but it is also covered with small green crystal inclusions and I believe these to be peridot or olivine which is also found in... Martian meteorites, now all of these things alone are difficult to place an id on for me since I am no expert in sandstone but I believe all of these things should be taken together as an indicator that we should take a closer look at this together and try to earnestly unravel its mystery I already know this is probably a terrestrial sandstone but I would like to leave a path for future discoveries as well as fully identify this as much as I'm able to. I'm not wealthy and could not afford to have analysis done if I wanted to and at this stage I'm looking for ideas and avenues of them to understand more about this at the very least strange sandstone, My explanation for the thumbprints is that it may be some kind of native American nutting stone. The only issue with that is the sizes aren't consistent and they would have to explain the imprints up and down the sides. 

20190730_120327.jpg

20190730_120437.jpg

20190730_120549.jpg

20190730_120653.jpg

20190731_111248.jpg

20190731_111349.jpg

20190731_205146_HDR.jpg

20190731_205528.jpg

20190731_205606.jpg

20190731_205658.jpg

20190731_205703.jpg

20190730_022611.jpg

20190730_022800.jpg

  • well done 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Odinxgen said:

Okay, so I know what everybody is going to say, 

Learn what a paragraph is?😖

Edited by Stillweaver hillbelli
  • Hmmmmmm 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is just sandstone. There is absolutely no chance of it being meteoritic.

Sand stone makes strange shapes both concave and convex. It also has concretions, especially when the sandstone is filled with mica. Those concretions are roughly spherical. They fall out and leave sockets. Those sockets erode into stones that look exactly like yours.

Sandstone often collects iron as a replacement mineral as more soluble minerals are taken away. It gets heavy. Sometimes this iron forms spherical concretions. Sometimes it just forms "halos" in the sandstone. It is complex chemistry that is really not fully understood (especially by me). But just be satisfied that this is the way it is. 

You have a piece of sandstone that chemistry has made more durable in a spherical plume around an unknown nucleus. This has slowed erosion at those boundaries and caused the stone to become pocked. It is a very common thing to happen with sandstone.

I have hundreds of natural sandstone shapes that you would swear are art pieces or maybe fossilized material. But they are just natural chemical sculpture. Nothing more. 

There is nothing meteoritic about your stone. It does have shapes that bear a resemblance to regmaglypts but many terrestrial stones have that. Fusion crust, metal flecks, chondrules, regmaglypts, flow lines, magnetism. These are what define a meteorite. It simply has no meteoritic characteristics at all.

It does however look exactly like common sandstone. So there is that. If it quacks like a duck and all....

I suppose it could be some rare and strange type of meteorite that science hasn't recognized yet. Still, my advice is to focus on finding the kind of meteorites that science does recognize and put that hunk of sandstone out in the garden. :)

Keep looking my friend! They are out there! You can find one. But this stone is not one. Sorry.

 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some of the pics look more like gneiss then sandstone.

  • Like 1
  • wow 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sure you are missing the WHOLE point here, And I mean that with the utmost respect Bedrock bob, Clearly I recognize how long shot of a stretch That I stumbled across some rare meteorite. But YOU are pushing your opinion hee as fact when I can point to scientific data and research that supports what I am saying. And are urging ALL meteorite hunters to broaden their classifications to include A white crust as it may be the only discernable feature that visually seperates itt from our own sandstones. And while I greatly appreciate it that you are contributing to me Fully ID this sandstone I don't need to be reminded of what I already know are facts, Yes the imprints are disprovable when you single them out BUT their are actually flow lines AND Green Olivine AND feldspar AND the white crust that we are supposed to be keeping an eye out for.  https://scholar.google.ca/scholar?q=olivine+martian+meteorite&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart, Theese are CLEARLY the types of discouragement that the earlier cited paper by the university of New Jersey Warned against  "if a consolidated siliciclastic sediment were ejected from Mars, the fusion crust formed during its deceleration and descent to Earth could be quite unlike anything that previous meteoritic experience defines as true fusion crust. " SO I am going to call you out bob and say show me a single sandstone like this. With all of these properties that is not completely out of place where it reside and can disprove ALLLL of this research and Ill pay ya $100 U.S. I am sure you can so this is cool money friend =)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And I have already explored the differential weathering path, It's possible that IS the case but again I find it more likely that this is some kind of Native American Nutting stone.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Still not a meteorite, even with another thread.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Odinxgen said:

SO I am going to call you out bob and say show me a single sandstone like this.

The burden of proof is not on Bob, it is on you.

  • Like 1
  • well done 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mikestang, Thanks for adding to the conversation. I agree it might not be, But then again it could be. And I would like to see the scientific data and references to dispute all of the research I have presented here, and I again respectfully ask that this thread is steeped in genuine curiosity and that we avoid personal attacks and meaningless speculation when the facts are immutable and no matter how much either of us wish it is or isn't a meteorite. I'm willing to accept my bias as being hopeful but I live in reality. So if you are going to refute all of the claims ive made based on what can physically be observed by me and you, Then please include something to reference so we can build a collection of the scientific realities and research as oppose to just saying I am wrong and doing what the actual experts meaning the PhDs Would rather we did not do. And as stated before there are several observations that need to be taken into account now Imprints in them selves are nothing special, BUT there are what could be an accumulation of melt and there is also the fact that there is one side that has zero imprints which could support the claim that a heat shield was created, and an observation of gneiss which I did not know because I haven't seen much sandstone cross sections. gneiss is made through a processs of high heat and pressure, and there is Olivine which correct me if im wrong, has no place near the Canadian shield as its brought forth from volcanic activity? And further than either through staining or melt there is a crust. what better specimen exists to better examine what a sedimentary meteorite could look like and how to identify it. If you don't belive that they are possible that's your opinion but I ask that you look at the scientific data that is also fairly recent before jumping in here and saying it doesn't look like a meteorite based on my experience because that my friend is the whole point. they are new, they exist, and they are different. if you disagree with me then please point me to evidence supporting that as I have pointed even to Witnessed falls that evade their proper status because of the narrow box placed around what we believe is or is not meteoric. It's the it doesn't look traditional approach that I am trying to dispel here and I am not attacking anybody because the world has enough division and I am SO happy to see so many experts and amateurs with as much knowledge as can be found anywhere in this forum. Thanks!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Odinxgen said:

Sure you are missing the WHOLE point here, And I mean that with the utmost respect Bedrock bob, Clearly I recognize how long shot of a stretch That I stumbled across some rare meteorite. But YOU are pushing your opinion hee as fact when I can point to scientific data and research that supports what I am saying. And are urging ALL meteorite hunters to broaden their classifications to include A white crust as it may be the only discernable feature that visually seperates itt from our own sandstones. And while I greatly appreciate it that you are contributing to me Fully ID this sandstone I don't need to be reminded of what I already know are facts, Yes the imprints are disprovable when you single them out BUT their are actually flow lines AND Green Olivine AND feldspar AND the white crust that we are supposed to be keeping an eye out for.  https://scholar.google.ca/scholar?q=olivine+martian+meteorite&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart, Theese are CLEARLY the types of discouragement that the earlier cited paper by the university of New Jersey Warned against  "if a consolidated siliciclastic sediment were ejected from Mars, the fusion crust formed during its deceleration and descent to Earth could be quite unlike anything that previous meteoritic experience defines as true fusion crust. " SO I am going to call you out bob and say show me a single sandstone like this. With all of these properties that is not completely out of place where it reside and can disprove ALLLL of this research and Ill pay ya $100 U.S. I am sure you can so this is cool money friend =)

I am not pushing my opinion as fact. I am stating my opinion and backing it up with fact. I am letting you know what I observe and backing those observations up with reasoning. I m giving you my best crack at it and some darn good advice from a perspective of a whole bunch of years experience. 

That is as good as you re going to do here. Five cents worth and it wont cost you a dime. Otherwise you are going to have to hunt somewhere else for an opinion that suits you better.

My advice is to spend your time hunting for a real meteorite rather than someone who will tell you what you want to hear. There is another nickels worth and I will throw it in at no extra charge.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bedrockbob, yup, I am only looking for advice and I appreciate the effort it takes to write detailed and informative information such as you have already given this thread! I would not expect anybody with valuable insight to accept this as a meteorite because in fact it probably isn't. that being said there is a greater conversation to be had here and I am Only interested in exploring the scientific data as no sedimentary meteorite to date has been found, While scientist are urging the hunters to include specifics displayed on this specimen that are not changeable like it or not. These types of meteorites exist and are being over looked for one reason or another. In 10 years if this thread gets enough detailed and scientific the conversations we have now could help some future hunter correctly identify one as no organized deposit of information exists despite the large amount of research made available for the public. I look forward to Correctly IDing this beyond a shadow of a doubt but its a process and if somebody finds this while going through something similar and it helps them make the first find we all will benefit greatly from being so well prepared. I hope my long answers and naive nature is welcome here and that we can all explore this topic as new research and developments become available!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is an image of the pocked sandstone mentioned earlier by Bedrockbob, Pattern may exist but is clearly significantly different from the resources available online!

ageing-sandstone-wall-showing-signs-of-crumbline-PRRCGD.jpg

s189772745713394276_p2301_i251_w1000.jpg

20190730_120437.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pyroxene is also present in martian meteorites http://www.psrd.hawaii.edu/Nov03/olivine.html the full publication can be viewed here but if the green crystals and the black sub-metallic flakes are actually olivine and pyroxene that is another issue to explore. Im not sure about the variances in sandstone minerals and if anybody knows a species of sandstone that contains these minerals that can be used as a reference for opinion I would appreciate the help greatly!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

UPDATE! It appears possible that this is an oriented meteorite. Despite what the very knowledgeable contributors have already stated. Yes this is a sandstone and It may be Extremelly lucky that it has such distinguishing features Please with hold judgement and examin the each side carefully I beilive it eventually settled after tumbling a few times this only wearing down the sides but making complete imprints on the outward facing side, because its a sandstone nt stone. You cant change the realities of the stone it is what it is and I would appreciate somebody presenting proof contrary to what I am seeing because I am starting to become a little obsessed =)  The first image is the side I think it became oriented on, the 2nd picture is opposite to the first side and the third is the bottom while the last 2 images are the two face sides

20190802_101602.jpg

20190802_101723.jpg

20190802_101817.jpg

20190802_101827.jpg

20190802_101851.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here are some more images First 2 being different variations of regular ol sandstone, the third is a gneiss (thanks again Morlock!) And the forth are some more close ups of my sandstone

07sandstone.jpg

00111 IMG_6060 sandstone.jpg

00116-gneiss.jpg

20190802_104217_HDR.jpg

20190802_104231.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Morlock said:

Some of the pics look more like gneiss then sandstone.

Genesis that didnt quite get all the way there from granite( now decomposing).

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Stillweaver hillbelli said:

Genesis that didnt quite get all the way there from granite( now decomposing).

Decoompossing? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

WHAT ABOUT THE OLIVINE, All martian meteorites have olivine AND is terrestrial olivine not larger than what is found in martian meteorites? because these crystals ar pretty dan small no more than a cm if that even. And the orientation is hard to show in a picture but it big time explains why the sides are not spherical like the few in the front and if it is WOOW. Lucky find I guess. Any chance for a revival from bedrock?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Odinxgen said:

Decoompossing? 

As in decomposed granite. 

Could you post pics with a ruler or coin for scale.  It would help from our perspective.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's not just that it's olivine, It is that the crystals are only a few mm at most. Look up olivine on martian meteorites and you will see what I mean it points to rapid cooling. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...