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Hassayampa River claims

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Posted (edited)

Just curious,

Hassayampa River claims that were formerly under BLM control look like they've been (and are currently being) gobbled up by State Trust Land control.

(I've been looking through older records from the 70s-2000's, around the old Red Cliff and Newsboy claims)

What gives?

Edited by Electrician
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so the state can regulate land for taxes against people.

me when confronted by government officials, state "native on native soil/land". cops pass me by BP waves me through and BLM leaves me alone.

 

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5 hours ago, wet/dry washer said:

so the state can regulate land for taxes against people.

me when confronted by government officials, state "native on native soil/land". cops pass me by BP waves me through and BLM leaves me alone.

 

They react in exactly the same way when they encounter someone sniffing drainpipes and mumbling incoherently.

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11 hours ago, Electrician said:

Just curious,

Hassayampa River claims that were formerly under BLM control look like they've been (and are currently being) gobbled up by State Trust Land control.

(I've been looking through older records from the 70s-2000's, around the old Red Cliff and Newsboy claims)

What gives?

Most BLM that changes hands is a result of a land swap. They give up some land in exchange for access somewhere else. At least that is the way it goes in New Mexico. 

There is a pretty strict set of guidelines about that. You have to be pretty important to game that system. BLM land just does not change hands unless there is justification of some sort and it goes through a swap process. If BLM is turning into State Trust then there are probably some acres of State Trust or private land that is creating access to some BLM or National Forest somewhere. 

There are public records of that stuff and the local BLM office will be able to tell you all about it. Land changing hands is a fairly big deal and there is always opposition by concerned groups and individuals. So opinions are easy to come by on both sides.

Clay is bound to chime in to tell us all exactly how it happened. He is the expert on this kind of thing but is slow to respond until he can correct someone. That is where I come in. I have offered a generalized opinion with only a little experience in the subject. This should put just enough red meat in the water to get Clay to come in and tell us what is happening on the Hassayampa.

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There are instances where the BLM retains mining rights on State Trust Land, but for me its way to complicated to research, and there's way to much open BLM land.

I asked Clay about some BLM claims filed on State Trust Land on the other side of the Hassunyumpa river South of Castle Hot Springs Road.  My less than perfect memory remembers him saying there are certain instances where the BLM gives land to the State, which I think is in Early Statehood or pre-Statehood, but retains the BLM retains the subsurface rights.  For me researching this is near impossible because unfortunately you need to go through the plats and each issue of the federal register to see what they did with each township, range, and section.  These are digitized, but there's no easy way to search for that info

In particular I was upset about a club that maintained a claim in that area on top of state trust land.  When I contacted the club, they said the claim was good, but I could not get any details from them.  The state trust land in this area retains the subsurface rights.  What I did with that club is not go to that claim, and I dropped my yearly membership.

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I seriously want to check out these areas and NOT go to jail.

I really would like to know who has control of these old claims.

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2 hours ago, Electrician said:

I seriously want to check out these areas and NOT go to jail.

I really would like to know who has control of these old claims.

Newsboy etc. are my backyard. There has been no transfer of land to the State in that area since 1971.

Chris is right. It is possible to make a federal mining claim on some State Trust lands. It's not as straightforward as a regular mining claim but it is possible. A little less than a million acres of State Trust lands have the minerals reserved to the United States. That's a big chunk of woohoo! but don't expect the State or the BLM to make it easy.

There is a lot more to know before you claim State lands, the first and most important being that you can't prospect for a claim normally. Forget about detecting or drywashing State lands without giving notice, at least a 30 day waiting period and posting a money bond with the BLM. Even then you can only prospect for 90 days per round. No mining, no surface disturbance. If you do discover valuable minerals the process behind mining these areas is complex but it is doable.

I'm not sure which "old" claims you are looking at. John Salzman (sp?) had a bunch of claims in that area but I think they have all been closed now. Closed claims don't mean anything. Once a claim is closed the land reverts to the previous status, no one has "control" of a closed claim. That area has a bunch of patented private land (including the newsboy group) as well as a FERC withdrawal so claiming is a little different even on the BLM managed lands. The area is heavily claimed due to the rich hardrock Lithium pods found there gaining a lot of market value lately. I haven't looked close lately but I'm guessing if any ground is still open it's going to be hard to find.

If you are looking for gold there are better areas nearby.

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That blue stripe right up the Hassayampa River had Red Cliff and Newsboy Claims - now closed. 

“Ownership and use of these claims are overseen by the Bureau of Land Management's Hassayampa Field Office.” 

But the State is showing “ownership” under the State Trust Land????

SE 1/4, Sec. 27, T.6N, R.4W, Gila-Salt River
SW 1/4, Sec. 27, T.6N, R.4W, Gila-Salt River 
NE 1/4, Sec. 34, T.6N, R.4W, Gila-Salt River 
NW 1/4, Sec. 34, T.6N, R.4W, Gila-Salt River

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The State has no mineral interests in Section 34 but they do own the surface. It is one of those areas where a federal mining claim can be pursued with the restrictions (2, 3, 4, 5, 6) I mentioned in my previous post.

The East 1/3 of Section 27 is private property. The 480 acres of State Trust land in the west of section 27 is an in lieu indemnity selection patent from 1972. It looks like that portion of section 27 is open for a potential State prospecting permit or State mineral lease but not a public domain mining claim.

The surface of both these State land sections are under different State grazing leases.

Many times each year people make claims on lands that are not open to location. Considering the actual historical Newsboy group is almost a mile upriver from your mapped area it's a pretty good bet that someone was hoping to capitalize on a confusion of names. Perhaps that worked?

It might be useful to understand that the richest portion of Little San Domingo wash is the lower section just before it joins the Hassayampa. Also useful is to understand the depth to bedrock at that junction is ~16 feet. As you travel downstream on the Hassayampa from that junction the depth to bedrock plunges to 17,000+ feet in just a few miles.

As I wrote, there are better areas to prospect nearby. :inocent:

 

I have no idea where you found the statement:

Quote

“Ownership and use of these claims are overseen by the Bureau of Land Management's Hassayampa Field Office.” 

 The BLM neither controls ownership of claims (1865 Mining Act) nor is mining considered a "use" under the laws or regulations. It would be interesting to know which knucklehead there came up with that phrase.

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On 6/12/2019 at 11:41 PM, clay said:

It might be useful to understand that the richest portion of Little San Domingo wash is the lower section just before it joins the Hassayampa. Also useful is to understand the depth to bedrock at that junction is ~16 feet. As you travel downstream on the Hassayampa from that junction the depth to bedrock plunges to 17,000+ feet in just a few miles.

 

17,000+ feet to bedrock????

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3 hours ago, Electrician said:

17,000+ feet to bedrock????

Sorry I munged the number. The bedrock depth for the Hassayampa Basin is 7,600 feet. Not that the difference matters much for mining purposes. Read more here.

Yeah that is a cliff.

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On 6/10/2019 at 6:24 PM, Electrician said:

Just curious,

Hassayampa River claims that were formerly under BLM control look like they've been (and are currently being) gobbled up by State Trust Land control.

(I've been looking through older records from the 70s-2000's, around the old Red Cliff and Newsboy claims)

What gives?

The Newsboy claims were leased by an outfit from Colorado that appears notorious for running financial scams ... They did a bunch of drill holes ...  They did hit a drilled pocket that showed 13 ozt per yard but it was at the old Queen of Sheba Mine which is about 4 miles NW from the Newsboy...They have a great geologist on staff, but management doesn't seem to follow his recommendations much, if at all ...Cheers, Unc

 

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I am really intrigued by the alluvial fan from this river, and would love to prospect this area.

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Posted (edited)
On 6/19/2019 at 6:50 PM, Uncle Ron said:

The Newsboy claims were leased by an outfit from Colorado that appears notorious for running financial scams ... They did a bunch of drill holes ...  They did hit a drilled pocket that showed 13 ozt per yard but it was at the old Queen of Sheba Mine which is about 4 miles NW from the Newsboy...They have a great geologist on staff, but management doesn't seem to follow his recommendations much, if at all ...Cheers, Unc

 

The newsboy group is a puzzle. They made those claims in 2008.  I'll look a little closer and see what other pies they have their finger in. They are owned by Southwest Exploration Inc. and their mailing address is a warehouse in Apache Junction. There are so many companies named "Southwest Exploration Inc." this may take awhile. Does the name Donna Norbury ring a bell?

The "Queen of Sheba" mine as we call it locally is actually the La Aguila and La Firmosa mine patent granted way back in 1909. It's about 38 acres of private property. I didn't know the family had leased the property for exploration, thanks for the info. It's been a very rich mine for them for generations. Fascinating area.

The claims around the Queen of Sheba are owned by Arizona Lithium Resources Ltd. Interestingly they give their address as just a floor or two above the BLM State office in the Phelps Dodge building in downtown phoenix. :inocent:

Edited by clay
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2 hours ago, Electrician said:

I am really intrigued by the alluvial fan from this river, and would love to prospect this area.

Other than than parts of Sections 15 and 22 of 6N 4W the river all the way down to the terminus of the Hassayampa Basin is either State Trust land or private land. No free prospecting is possible.

You might be able to get permission on portions of the private land or you could pony up the money and the time to get a State Trust land prospecting permit for a section. Plan on a lot of prospecting time though, thousands of feet to bedrock out there.

Go north young man. The bottom of the lower Hassayampa is no place for a prospector.  :Just_Cuz_06:

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The outfit doing the drilling was Bullfrog Mining...

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About three years ago, I'd been out detecting on some of the new lithium claims prior to them getting claimed be whatever company has them now.  Although I wish I'd known what to look for, I do hope this group of claims develops into a producing mine.  I found no gold detecting, a lot of green copper ore specks in a lot of the rocks in the area, and a set of 100 year old scissors.  Lots of old workings,.  Someone had a large, for the area, operation out there.  Never saw so many tailings locally, but couldn't find anything in Minddat what was there.

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