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I have to digress a little. I've always found it ludicrous that scientists have been able to determine a lunar meteorite with a slight degree of certainty on earth, never mind a Martian. 

The only samples returned from the moon were from the 6 Apollo missions returning about 840 LBS of samples, or about two to three 5 gallon buckets per landing. If we said we could determine where a rock came from on earth with only six different sample areas with only two or three buckets from each, no one should take that seriously. 

Never once has a single grain of sand ever been returned from Mars.  True, there's been plenty of scientific studies done by the rovers, but still, saying any meteor on earth came from Mars, I don't get it.  Especially with all the unknown space rocks floating around. 

In my mind, if I were writing the paper or story, I would say that the meteor on earth is similar to the rocks we've studied from the moon or Mars, but that makes for very boring headlines.

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Popac, Most people who find an unusual rock they think is a meteorite typically think it is from Mars or the Moon and worth tens of millions of dollars. There is always a fall story, usually embe

Hey I found gold nuggets upwards of 3 ounces each on the edge of a new subdivision in a friends back yard in people's valley, Az.  It happens. but it wasn't in a pre-dug hole. (Model creek place

I have to digress a little. I've always found it ludicrous that scientists have been able to determine a lunar meteorite with a slight degree of certainty on earth, never mind a Martian.  The onl

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I have to agree on this one.   A hole pile of Speculation going on with that stuff.  All based on BECAUSE ?  

We know as fact that Chunks of Earth, Moon and yep Mars has been jetisons via major impacts at one time or another.  We also know that All these bodies Well Not sure about the Moon, were created by the same flotsam materials from junk out there.  That says all the rocks have a common ancestry if you go back long enough.   Just coming out a saying Eaaaaa That's Lunar or Martian simply dosn't meet the criteria of Good Science  .

 

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2 hours ago, chrisski said:

I have to digress a little. I've always found it ludicrous that scientists have been able to determine a lunar meteorite with a slight degree of certainty on earth, never mind a Martian. 

The only samples returned from the moon were from the 6 Apollo missions returning about 840 LBS of samples, or about two to three 5 gallon buckets per landing. If we said we could determine where a rock came from on earth with only six different sample areas with only two or three buckets from each, no one should take that seriously. 

Never once has a single grain of sand ever been returned from Mars.  True, there's been plenty of scientific studies done by the rovers, but still, saying any meteor on earth came from Mars, I don't get it.  Especially with all the unknown space rocks floating around. 

In my mind, if I were writing the paper or story, I would say that the meteor on earth is similar to the rocks we've studied from the moon or Mars, but that makes for very boring headlines.

The short answer is there's some pretty sophisticated instrumentation they use to determine the composition of lunars and martians....none of which  have ever been found on earth. I believe they can also check to see what type of radiation and for how long they've been exposed.

I'm still waiting for the discovery of a lunar or martian in North America.

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1 hour ago, Morlock said:

I'm still waiting for the discovery of a lunar or martian in North America.

Morlock,

 Robert Verish has a martian meteorite classified called Los Angeles, found in California somewhere.

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3 hours ago, homefire said:

I have to agree on this one.   A hole pile of Speculation going on with that stuff.  All based on BECAUSE ?  

We know as fact that Chunks of Earth, Moon and yep Mars has been jetisons via major impacts at one time or another.  We also know that All these bodies Well Not sure about the Moon, were created by the same flotsam materials from junk out there.  That says all the rocks have a common ancestry if you go back long enough.   Just coming out a saying Eaaaaa That's Lunar or Martian simply dosn't meet the criteria of Good Science  .

 

Homefire, with all due respect...

You obviously don't know how they determine a Martian meteorite. And based on what you don't know you are making a judgement on what is "good science"? 

Come on man. This is Nuggetshooter Meteorite Forum. There are guys here that know their stuff. Before you decide what is "good science" you should learn some. Why not ask some questions rather than make judgements based on what you don't know?

Don't devalue science simply because you don't understand how they reach their conclusions. 

You are an elder here. You should be offering wisdom. Just sayin' Homie.

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5 hours ago, chrisski said:

In my mind, if I were writing the paper or story, I would say that the meteor on earth is similar to the rocks we've studied from the moon or Mars, but that makes for very boring headlines.

That right there is precious Chris. 

You should read the "paper or story" that the scientists who classify Martian meteorites actually write! You would find out how they know the rock comes from Mars and the process they use to reach that conclusion. Maybe then it would seem less ludicrous.

:)

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55 minutes ago, Bedrock Bob said:

Homefire, with all due respect...

You obviously don't know how they determine a Martian meteorite. And based on what you don't know you are making a judgement on what is "good science"? 

Come on man. This is Nuggetshooter Meteorite Forum. There are guys here that know their stuff. Before you decide what is "good science" you should learn some. Why not ask some questions rather than make judgements based on what you don't know?

Don't devalue science simply because you don't understand how they reach their conclusions. 

You are an elder here. You should be offering wisdom. Just sayin' Homie.

Bob,

You forgot 'alternative fact'. Assume.......

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maybe this will help.

total known Martian specimens, 224 as of January 9th 2019. me has over 900 pictures as they lay. 

71 elements listed U- .00004 percent the lowest, Fe- 50 percent the highest. plus carbon gases water listed no percentage posted.

mars lava flows 1,400 million years old. their meteorites would be the youngest.

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I'm amazed how upset everyone is getting over this. just have it tested! gesh.

AzNuggetBob

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There is plenty of places to get it done. I get some of my mystery rocks tested with a spectrographic analysis machine at a local coin shop with a printout for free.

but I have to say since you ground it off it looks more and more like graphite.

AzNuggetBob

Edited by AzNuggetBob
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1 hour ago, AzNuggetBob said:

There is plenty of places to get it done. I get some of my mystery rocks tested with a spectrographic analysis machine at a local coin shop with a printout for free.

but I have to say since you ground it off it looks more and more like graphite.

AzNuggetBob

I calculated density precisely it is 2.21g/cm3, it scratches copper coin and it scratches glass. What more tests can i do?

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13 hours ago, DolanDave said:

Morlock,

 Robert Verish has a martian meteorite classified called Los Angeles, found in California somewhere.

You're right. I completely forgot about that find. The odd thing is it was a martian instead of a lunar. You'd think there would have been many lunars found as opposed to martians simply because the moon is much closer. There's no doubt in my mind someone or perhaps even a few people on this forum have walked right past a lunar without knowing it.

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2 hours ago, Popac said:

I calculated density precisely it is 2.21g/cm3, it scratches copper coin and it scratches glass. What more tests can i do?

Will it scratch a knife blade? If so, will it scratch a steel file? Trying to narrow down the hardness.

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2 hours ago, Popac said:

I calculated density precisely it is 2.21g/cm3, it scratches copper coin and it scratches glass. What more tests can i do?

Popac I already told you what tests you can do? and where you could get them done!

Ok Popac where did the bubbling and smoothing come from on one side of your specimen? Its very possible at one time It could have been in a fault in the bedrock. the side that appears melted may have been facing the open side of the fault/fissure/crack in the bedrock.
the bubbles could be from fluids assisted by heating from geothermal heating as graphite doesn't tend to burn or melt. 
I dont know how it ended up in a back yard but I have been known to throw away "maybe rocks" in mine. I call it my rock garden. :inocent:
AzNuggetBob 

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4 minutes ago, Morlock said:

Will it scratch a knife blade? If so, will it scratch a steel file? Trying to narrow down the hardness.

It does leave a scratch in this tool.

@AzNuggetBob I do not live in USA, it is not easy in my proximity to find those kind of testings.

 

Screenshot_20190331-160220_Video Player.jpg

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8 minutes ago, Popac said:

 

@AzNuggetBob I do not live in USA, it is not easy in my proximity to find those kind of testings.

 

Screenshot_20190331-160220_Video Player.jpg

Where do you live?

AzNuggetBob

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2 hours ago, Morlock said:

You're right. I completely forgot about that find. The odd thing is it was a martian instead of a lunar. You'd think there would have been many lunars found as opposed to martians simply because the moon is much closer. There's no doubt in my mind someone or perhaps even a few people on this forum have walked right past a lunar without knowing it.

Scientists are just speculating when they declare a met to be a Martian. It is not good science. They just do it for the headlines and have no basis to make the determination aside of "just because". 

Since there is no scientific methodology and it is all subjective then it is no wonder a Martian was found despite the slim odds. No doubt some "scientist" will declare one from Venus some day just for the heck of it.

It is just ludicrous to think they can actually tell that a met comes from Mars. We haven't even been there! Besides, all rocks have the same origin if you go back far enough. Additionally, Mars has a lot of volcanoes so the mets are really young.

I know this because the seasoned meteorite hunters on Nuggetshooter said so. They offer experience and knowledge and they really know their stuff. :)

 

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49 minutes ago, Popac said:

It does leave a scratch in this tool.

@AzNuggetBob I do not live in USA, it is not easy in my proximity to find those kind of testings.

 

Screenshot_20190331-160220_Video Player.jpg

Those are not scratches Popac. Those are just lines left behind from dragging the specimen across the steel. It left dark marks, not bright, torn scratches. You can plainly see the scratches in the steel behind those marks as opposed to the dark lines you made. Scratches leave a line of disrupted material in the steel. Your marks are just dark lines that you can easily rub off with a fingertip.

Your specimen looks exactly like copper sulphide ore in every way. It matches the specific gravity and will also match the hardness when you get that test right. 

Someone mentioned it would smell like Sulphur if you struck it smartly with a hammer. Maybe you should try that test? You could also heat the filings you removed in a flame to release the Sulphur. This test would be absolutely definitive for a Sulphur compound if you cared to perform it. 

 

 

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20 minutes ago, Popac said:

Bosnia & Herzegovina

Isn't there a local university or college that has a geology dept that you can contact or even take the specimen to for examination? It's hard to indentify some specimens online and yours is one of them. I think that's your best option.

If you do, let us know know what it is. I'm sure a few of us are intrigued.

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There is no way graphite will leave a mark in tool steel. that's why we use it for a lubricant.

AzNuggetBob

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30 minutes ago, Bedrock Bob said:

Those are not scratches Popac. Those are just lines left behind from dragging the specimen across the steel. It left dark marks, not bright, torn scratches. You can plainly see the scratches in the steel behind those marks as opposed to the dark lines you made. Scratches leave a line of disrupted material in the steel. Your marks are just dark lines that you can easily rub off with a fingertip.

Your specimen looks exactly like copper sulphide ore in every way. It matches the specific gravity and will also match the hardness when you get that test right. 

 

 

 

I already rubbed it clean, also when i rub it with my fingernail it gets stuck in the scratch, so it is a scratch and i didn't even push hard. I can make it deeper and a video if you would like, it is not in my interest to make things up, when i write something i checked it dozens of times prior.

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