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Dakota Slim

Getting crowded out there?

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Trail gridlock prompting hikers to try unsanctioned paths

PHOENIX — Heavy traffic on the streets and highways of metropolitan Phoenix is a common occurrence. With more than 4.7 million people now calling the area home, it is no surprise people occasionally want to get away from it all....

http://www.mohavedailynews.com/news/trail-gridlock-prompting-hikers-to-try-unsanctioned-paths/article_8c88178c-c2e5-11e8-b033-c30de454d66c.html

 

world_population_1050_to_2050.jpg

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Unsanctioned paths :25r30wi:Hiker gridlock :25r30wi:Camper jams :25r30wi:Walker wrecks :25r30wi:Birdwatcher collisions :25r30wi:

I guess if you are going to live where paths are sanctioned then you are going to be expected to stick to the sanctioned paths. It only makes sense.

 

...That is why I am glad I live down here in this war zone where the raping and murdering illegal aliens and drug cartels have it all under siege! The unchecked invasion of people that are swarming over the porous border keeps the population low. :rolleyes: We can walk and hike anywhere and rarely encounter another person.

In all seriousness, people wreck the heck out of the desert around a city. Here there are dumps, shooting areas and places where people dump carcasses, etc. etc. The off-roaders, mountin bikers and the ATV'ers really hit it hard and cause a lot of damage. And hiking trails in heavy use/sensitive areas can get way out of hand.

Land management around most urban areas is lacking. Trying to enforce rules that will preserve a suburban wild area is as difficult as following them. There are no easy solutions. 

And with this unchecked invasion of terrorists that have us under siege it is only going to get worse. :inocent:

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This is my hometown. It sits just below the most photographed mountain range in the world. We saw what was happening to Phoenix and Tucson and did not want that to happen here. So the town organized and fought to get the whole area protected as a monument. Slowly we are getting control and slowing the damage that surrounds the town.

Here are the famous Organ Mountains at sunset and our little town below. The Rio Grande is at the photographer's back. We figured this was worth preserving.

organs.jpg

 

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Just one more because they look so good in white...

A little rough, no?

organ2.jpg

 

Sorry Slim. It was kinda on topic. I hope you enjoy the photos. 

 

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You can still enjoy some solitude on public lands and national parks if you go off season. Living near one of the most visited national parks in the country Yosemite...Summers can get crazy.  But Fall, Winter and Spring you have it pretty much to yourself. Took this shot of Half Dome in September....and avoided the crowds. 

half dome.jpg

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This is my backyard. There are trail heads along the whole 80 miles of range. But fortunately for now, they are just walking trails. But the people up here in the spring and summer are unbelievable. Trash gets thrown around and it just gets irritating. Beautiful mountain range though.

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636590778104014047-Photo-Ruby-Mountains-Oil-and-GAS-EA.jpeg

Lamoille CanyonX009.JPG

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Here is a spot about ten miles outside of Santa Fe. Not much traffic. The peak is about 13,000 ft. altitude.

Lake Kathrine. It is a cirque at the top of Santa Fe Baldy in the Pecos Wilderness. Katherine is fed by the southernmost glacier on earth. It is one of my favorite haunts. 

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It is an 11 mile walk in and about a 3,000 climb from the trailhead. Bring a coat.

Aint the West freaking beautiful?

 

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5 minutes ago, nugget108 said:

This is my backyard. There are trail heads along the whole 80 miles of range. But fortunately for now, they are just walking trails. But the people up here in the spring and summer are unbelievable. Trash gets thrown around and it just gets irritating. Beautiful mountain range though.

12-WUP1050681d-L.jpg

636590778104014047-Photo-Ruby-Mountains-Oil-and-GAS-EA.jpeg

Lamoille CanyonX009.JPG

Look at those steep faces on those rascals! Just beautiful man!

We are blessed. There is no other way to say it. 

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Its great. Sheep and goats everywhere up there. Beautiful country to wake up to everyday. But like Slim posted, its starting to attract a lot more people.

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5 minutes ago, nugget108 said:

Its great. Sheep and goats everywhere up there. Beautiful country to wake up to everyday. But like Slim posted, its starting to attract a lot more people.

Yup. Mafrican Americans everywhere these days. All of them from somewhere else. A tourist in every turnout and a scrap of toilet paper under every tree.

We have a saying here. "Bad tourist. No turquoise."

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36 minutes ago, Bedrock Bob said:

Here is a spot about ten miles outside of Santa Fe. Not much traffic. The peak is about 13,000 ft. altitude.

Lake Kathrine. It is a cirque at the top of Santa Fe Baldy in the Pecos Wilderness. Katherine is fed by the southernmost glacier on earth. It is one of my favorite haunts. 

DSCN0038.JPG

It is an 11 mile walk in and about a 3,000 climb from the trailhead. Bring a coat.

Aint the West freaking beautiful?

 

There are over 25 alpine lakes in this range. The fly fishing for the brookies, cutthroat and browns is absolutely amazing. This is liberty lake. 5.6 mile hike in. Great fishing and one of our favorites to hike to just because its not too far for my wife and little kids to hike, but the general public doesn't really go in that far.

libertylake.JPG

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5 minutes ago, nugget108 said:

There are over 25 alpine lakes in this range. The fly fishing for the brookies, cutthroat and browns is absolutely amazing. This is liberty lake. 5.6 mile hike in. Great fishing and one of our favorites to hike to just because its not too far for my wife and little kids to hike, but the general public doesn't really go in that far.

libertylake.JPG

A cirque with a tarn in it! Glacial lakes are really cool! 

The Sangre De Christos have one or two of those glacial lakes on every big peak too! It is strange to see those lakes like jewels so darn high up. I am not sure how many there are total but probably a dozen or more. And a few bogs that cover some serious acreage too. You can get on the high ridge and walk a 25 mile trail in a big horseshoe and see most of them. It is a serious hike and it takes at least three days to complete. Very high altitude and strenuous. Always some weather to deal with.

More folks are tuning in to the outdoors. It is a double edged sword for guys like us who have it all to themselves. I want to believe that it will lead to a bunch of folks that really appreciate what we have. Sure a lot of people act like fools but I think the end result is going to be good. I hope people find out what these areas are all about and are as consumed with it as guys like us are. The only way for them to really learn what is at stake is to get out and see it for themselves. And I guess we are going to have to grit our teeth and let them.

I am afraid they are going to love some of these areas to death before they figure it out.

.

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Very true statement all around Bob.

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Great Pictures Guys !!

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In 1838 and 1839, as part of Andrew Jackson's Indian removal policy, the Cherokee nation was forced to give up its lands east of the Mississippi River and to migrate to an area in present-day Oklahoma. The Cherokee people called this journey the "Trail of Tears," because of its devastating effects. 4000 Cherokee people died of cold, hunger, and disease on their way to the western lands. (From: https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part4/4h1567.html)

IMHO, the "trails" the government is attempting to limit access to is also oppressive but if one considers the exploding population, obviously some degree of control is -- or will be -- required. Those of us who have known and had unfettered access to wilderness areas have been blessed. We've had more than a few discussions about road closures on this forum and I guess that's the reason I posted this. Enjoy it while it lasts.  

 

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I think a distinction should be drawn between closing roads to vehicular traffic and limiting access. Simply because a road is closed to vehicular traffic does not mean the area is "off limits". It just means that you are going to have to hike or ride from the nearest open road.

Generally the roads they close are in areas with lots of crisscrossing trails. It does not really make it any farther to where you are going it just puts all traffic in an area on the same trail. So all road closures aren't a plot to keep you out of an area. It might mean you have to walk in to an area that you could drive before though. And it might mean you have to carry your equipment farther to your honey hole.

When we limited vehicle travel to established trails around Las Cruces there was a huge outcry that we were "locking it up" and that it was a "land grab". Some claimed it meant the Border Patrol would be prohibited from driving their vehicles off road in pursuit. Others claimed we wanted to make it a crime to set foot off the designated road. All sorts of scary stories were circulated to make people believe the monument was an evil government plot to lock you out of your public lands. Actually it was a community grass roots effort to save the area around the city from absolute destruction by ATV's and off roaders.

They did close some trails to vehicular travel but you can still get to within a half mile of any point in the monument by road. So it is not like you cant get there. But you might have to take a different route than you were used to taking. They designated the main access roads as permanent and closed a bunch of little jeep trails that went down every ridge and arroyo. You can still drive down them if you want to. But they are posted and if the BLM ranger sees you on one they will stop and tell you about it. If you are a big swinging kielbasa about it you might get cited. But it isn't a government conspiracy to keep you out. They are just trying to control the off road driving. If they catch you blasting up the side of a mountain in an off road vehicle you are going to have problems though.

Limiting access on public land is a pretty rare thing. You can walk and ride a horse just about anywhere you want on or off the established trails. And that is beautiful.

In many areas you can ride an ATV or drive a 4wd anywhere you want. I think that is just wrong. Vehicular travel should be limited to established roads and trails just about everywhere with very few exceptions. Wherever vehicles are unrestricted and heavy vehicle use has created a tight network of trails I think trail closures should definitely be done. 

 

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29 minutes ago, Bedrock Bob said:

Simply because a road is closed to vehicular traffic does not mean the area is "off limits". It just means that you are going to have to hike or ride from the nearest open road.

"Roads" were made to support vehicular travel, were they not? Here, let me answer that for you...

road: a wide way leading from one place to another, especially one with a specially prepared surface that vehicles can use.

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1 hour ago, Dakota Slim said:

"Roads" were made to support vehicular travel, were they not? Here, let me answer that for you...

road: a wide way leading from one place to another, especially one with a specially prepared surface that vehicles can use.

I think we can agree on what a road is as well as what they were intended for. I'm not sure how that relates to the discussion.

My point was that closing a road does not make an area off limits. It just means you may have to walk or ride a horse instead of drive.  

 

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The Young squirts with 80HP quads screwed this pooch.   When common sense was still common this crap never came up. 

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Quads, motorcycles and now side by sides. I know a lot of people that need to utilize a side by side but there are the ones that would rather drive that frigging thing everywhere and make new roads because they dont want to walk 100 yards to pick up the deer they just shot from the road. And unfortunately its not just the young doing it anymore. We are seeing middle aged men doing it here that know better. Then you ask them why they are out making new roads and they tell you 'thats why i bought it'. Gets irritating. 

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Yup. Lots of guys these days want to be a Conquistador but they don't have what it takes to do it without a machine. If a guy wants to go "over there" he needs to lace up his boots and walk like a man. 

In most cases the issue with road closures is not access. The issue is being able to ride in a little motorized chariot without having to burn off any of that precious winter fat.

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First of all, the pics you are posting are awesome.  I'd love to live somewhere like that.

12 hours ago, Dakota Slim said:

IMHO, the "trails" the government is attempting to limit access to is also oppressive but if one considers the exploding population, obviously some degree of control is -- or will be -- required. Those of us who have known and had unfettered access to wilderness areas have been blessed. We've had more than a few discussions about road closures on this forum and I guess that's the reason I posted this. Enjoy it while it lasts.  

This does worry me.  I kind of saw the writing on the wall when the BLM closed motorized access to huge chunks of land during fire season in AZ this year just in case.  It did work though.  Much less fires in AZ.  Last I the news said we were at 1/4 the fires this year compared to last.

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9 hours ago, nugget108 said:

Quads, motorcycles and now side by sides. I know a lot of people that need to utilize a side by side but there are the ones that would rather drive that frigging thing everywhere and make new roads because they dont want to walk 100 yards to pick up the deer they just shot from the road. And unfortunately its not just the young doing it anymore. We are seeing middle aged men doing it here that know better. Then you ask them why they are out making new roads and they tell you 'thats why i bought it'. Gets irritating. 

Making new roads is not the same as closing existing roads. Remember, there is a definition of a "road". Does driving a vehicle across the desert make a road? Of course not. Our forefathers have been doing it for over 100 years.
Who decides if and if when it's time to close off access to public land?  It certainly wasn't the founding fathers.

Edited by Dakota Slim
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2 hours ago, Bedrock Bob said:

Yup. Lots of guys these days want to be a Conquistador but they don't have what it takes to do it without a machine. If a guy wants to go "over there" he needs to lace up his boots and walk like a man. 

In most cases the issue with road closures is not access. The issue is being able to ride in a little motorized chariot without having to burn off any of that precious winter fat.

Yep, and some Conquistadors have admitted to doing just that while shooting every beer bottle in sight. 

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Slim,

Again I just don't understand how the post relates. :idunno: Guys should stick to the open roads in their vehicles and walk the rest of the way. Sure some guys don't follow those rules. Has someone "admitted" otherwise?  :idunno:

If guys are being unethical they should be called out by their peers. You should step up and voice your concerns when they "admit" these things to you! 

As far as I know there is nothing wrong with someone shooting bottles. Do you see a problem? I do it all the time! It is one of my favorite pass times!  :idunno:

You seem to be trying to say something but you are beating around the bush and being very coy about it. Why don't you just say what you mean? This riddle game is strange. I am not sure what to make of it. You are obviously trying to say something to me that I don't understand and I want to hear you out!

You don't have to be shy! You can lay it out on the table! Let's communicate buddy! :shake2:

Big hugs,

Bedrock Bob

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