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I finally got out for an outing in an old haunt. Most of the day was spent surface hunting for old stuff but I got the chance to duck into a secret spot and run the detector for a couple of hours. I lucked out and found a pretty good chunk of gold in some newly exposed caliche.

DSCN0433.JPG

I cleaned the military button up with some vinegar. It is in great condition. The old 38-40 blackpowder round is unfired. 

My son found a couple of neat tokens and several marbles but I don't have any photos of his stuff. He does not use a detector at all so his finds are all by eye.

Ill be headed back to that spot in a few weeks to hit that caliche harder. I know there were probably a few smaller pieces of gold that I just did not have the ear to find. It has been a long time since I have even turned my detector on much less found gold with it. So I am stunned and amazed that I was lucky enough to find this one.

 

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...The button.

The eagle has an olive branch in his right talon, a bunch of arrows in his left. In peace time the buttons are made with the eagle facing the olive branch. In war times the eagle faces the arrows on the left side.

This button is probably from the 1920-1930's based on the location I found it. The eagle faces the olive branch. It is pre- WW2 and most likely post WW1.

It is the standard Waterbury design army cloak button with the ring back. 

Edited by Bedrock Bob
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Great finds Bob. My son has found a few of those buttons and im pretty sure yours is a little older than you think. I could be wrong though. Nice abalone button too. 

Once again, great finds.

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7 hours ago, Bedrock Bob said:

...The button.

The eagle has an olive branch in his right talon, a bunch of arrows in his left. In peace time the buttons are made with the eagle facing the olive branch. In war times the eagle faces the arrows on the left side.

This button is probably from the 1920-1930's based on the location I found it. The eagle faces the olive branch. It is pre- WW2 and most likely post WW1.

It is the standard Waterbury design army cloak button with the ring back. 

Bob that's a misconception that the eagle on the Great Seal Button which was designed using the Great Seal of the US was different/facing towards olive branch in times of peace and towards the arrows in times of war. 

The Great Seal has indeed changed over time and the eagle has faced the arrows on some of the designs but it had nothing to do with it being war times or peace times, mostly it was because of who was the pressident at the time/s of change.

All Great Seal Military buttons are much the same, the only way to really date them is by the backmark/maker's mark.

See the link...and "Misconception"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seal_of_the_President_of_the_United_States

Misconception

Many people erroneously believe that the seal is changed during times of war, so that the eagle faces the arrows in its left talon. This belief may have arisen because major changes to the seal have coincidentally been made before or after wars – specifically, the 1945 change in the seal, and also the 1916 change in the flag (though not the seal) from the right-facing Great Seal to the left-facing presidential seal.[46]

This misconception could also have arisen from a comment made by Winston Churchill, who (regarding Truman's redesign of the seal) joked: "Mr. President, with the greatest respect, I would prefer the American eagle's neck to be on a swivel so that it could face the olive branches or the arrows, as the occasion might demand".[52]

Also furthering this misconception was an episode of The West Wing entitled "What Kind of Day Has It Been?", aired in 2000. Character Admiral Fitzwallace, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, observed that the presidential seal in the center of the Oval Office carpet contained a shield bearing a bald eagle clutching the olive branch in its right talons and arrows in its left. The eagle's head was turned toward the olive branch. Fitzwallace mentioned that in times of war, the Seal is replaced with one in which the eagle's head is turned toward the arrows. This is inaccurate.[53]

The Dan Brown novel Deception Point further perpetuates this misconception with a passage that implies the presidential seal embroidered on the carpet in the White House Oval Office is changed by White House workers. The novel states that one carpet is stored in the basement of the White House, and the workers simply swap the carpets overnight when no one notices.

 

 

 

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I have found a bucket full of those buttons and some eagles are one way and some are the other. I figured the "wartime story" was true. I never actually checked it out for myself. I cant remember where I heard the story but I guess It was someone convincing. 

This just has Waterbury on the back like most do. So I am just dating it by the time period of the little encampment. It was a depression days camp but there were a few old timers there before them no doubt. So I suppose the button could be about any date within the "Waterbury" mark range and that is a very wide one.

My son found a couple gold plated ones many years back with a bunch of .38 long colt rounds. And I found quite a few of several types in an old dump near Rincon, New Mexico. One was marked "C.S.A" and several were navy buttons. But most were exactly like this one with the same markings on the back and the eagle facing both ways. 

One of these days I am going to make a display case and do a design in those little tobacco stars, buckles, buttons, and all the rest of the junk I have collected over the years. I think I have enough of those little stars to cover a small table top. I have no idea how many buckles of various sizes and rusty steel conchos I have stuffed into boxes. I have several old silver conchos hammered from Mexican coins with the square hole in the center too. All of it good junk that needs to be put in some sort of grand display of rust and frustration. 

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11 hours ago, Edge said:

Ever hunt around San Marcial?

I've owned two 38-40s, a New Service Colt and a model '73.

Great news story on nearby Ft Craig.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/feds-quietly-dig-up-67-civil-war-graves/

A buddy of mine was digging at Ft. Craig back in 1976 when he got out of Viet Nam. I don't know how many guys have been there treasure hunting. Probably thousands.

They had some sort of disease in the horses. There is a spot where hundreds of horses were burned and buried with saddles and tack with them. A huge common grave with LOTS OF STUFF to dig up. It was a free for all for several decades. At one point guys rented a backhoe and made a big excavation to get at it.

I know for a fact there was a notorious BLM official who looted the heck out of the place. He is dead now and his collection was confiscated after his demise to avoid embarrassment to him and the agency. Ft. Craig was one of his favorite spots to dig.

I have no idea about the human graves. Lots of them around this country and many have been dug up. There seems to be no effort at all to protect them. The focus has all been on Amerindian sites. 

I wonder why they don't try and preserve this old fort like the rest of them. For heaven's sake old Ft. Cummings is almost gone but they have a caretaker living there. I have always wondered why they let Ft. Craig be looted so badly over the years. There is just a LOT of stuff there. 

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Yeah hunted the area north of the fort in the early '90s and encountered quick sand. You could still see at San Marcial where the railroad company dug into the buried roundhouse to retrieve a locomotive.

sanmar3.jpg

I understand the Confederate dead from the battle of Valverde are buried just east of the old river crossing on private property. I wonder if those graves have been looted, too.

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2 minutes ago, Edge said:

Yeah hunted the area north of the fort in the early '90s and encountered quick sand. 

I understand the Confederate dead from the battle of Valverde are buried just east of the old river crossing on private property. I wonder if those graves have been looted, too.

The private land sites have probably fared a bit better. I have not been down there to the fort in years although we kayak near there.  There is a spot over on the lava east of the fort that I go once in a while to hunt for opal and petrified wood. But Ft. Craig I have always tried to avoid. I get a creepy feeling down there for some reason.

...My buddy was digging there in the 70's and got a bad cough from the dust in that old horses grave. He suddenly got sick and they flew him to the Army hospital in El Paso. He had a pericardial infection on is heart and darn near died. They never figured it out and almost killed him with anti biotics. He was a young man with a highly decorated war history. As healthy as a bull. Something in that hole almost took him out over a 24 hour period. So I have never been too interested in poking around there too much.

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18 minutes ago, Edge said:

Yeah hunted the area north of the fort in the early '90s and encountered quick sand. You could still see at San Marcial where the railroad company dug into the buried roundhouse to retrieve a locomotive.

sanmar3.jpg

I understand the Confederate dead from the battle of Valverde are buried just east of the old river crossing on private property. I wonder if those graves have been looted, too.

Ahhh… The buried train! You are a true native my friend! Very few know of that story and fewer still have seen the spot. 

Not too far north of that is where they built the railroad spur to take the nuclear apparatus to Trinity. You can stand on  a rock just west of the river and see the names of several Spanish officers cut into the rock along side dozens of petroglyphs and pictographs. You can see the RR fork from there that heads east to Trinity.

Not many have been down in the valley near there. It is kinda the choad of the Rio Grande valley so to speak. An in-between land that is isolated and mosquito infested. I don't think there is any legal way to access much of it unless you have permission. But there is big adventure in that country between Servilleta and Bosque Del Apache and down to Ft. Craig.

Next spring I intend to kayak from the Rio Grande bypass below Sevilleta down to Elephant Butte. I don't know anyone who has made that trip (although I am sure others have). There are several spots down there I want to poke around a bit. There should be a hungry fish or two in those channels too.

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I walked the gun emplacements out at Craig and picked up some large muleshoes.

I'm trying to think of what disease would possibly cause the army to destroy animals and tack. Not like the science of epidemioligy had gotten too far in the 1800's. But one disease that could have stuck around in the soil a century plus, maybe Anthrax? Not worth some old halter rosettes or rotten McClellans to me.

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There was a lot of stuff in that hole. Bottles, lots of old uniforms (buttons), and various other stuff. But darn sure not big treasure nor was it worth risking health. I am sure he did not expect it to affect him like that. He was just digging up old stuff and having a jolly old time until he started coughing.

Who knows what made him sick? Could have been something completely different. I have no idea. He is convinced it was in the dust in that hole but that is just an opinion I suppose. I don't think the doctors ever really sorted it out but they told him it was a pericardial infection. He got better over a week or so and it took several moths to get back to normal. 

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On ‎10‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 9:27 PM, homefire said:

Good Stuff Bob.    What detector you running out yonder ?

 

http://www.quanonline.com/military/military_reference/american/wwii_uniforms/usbuttons.html

I use an old SD2100 machine Homey. Hillsboro is a huge pain in the fanny for a VLF. Many places are bad even with a PI. 

I am low budget and old school. I believe in a cheap detector and a quality shovel.

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mining partner's dad, welden t. moore worked on the first atomic bomb project. he also authored the book "genesis of the elements" he never copyrighted it because he wanted it to be free to all students. some italian copyrighted it.

his statement to his new students was, many problems exist today because of the inventions in the minds of man and not the simple hand of creation.

thay did alot of prospecting in new mexico. after his dad died don moved to the glamis ca area, where me met him, now lives in smoke tree. he witnessed the 2005 fall and in 1975 he and two other natives witnessed the old woman fall.

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