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theace115

100 year old artifacts?

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Hey all,

I have heard a couple people tell me that it is illegal to remove anything (man made) from BLM land that is more than 100 years old.  I cannot find any solid information regarding this online.  Can someone please guide me in the right direction, post links, post US Statute numbers, etc.  I would like to research this more so I can become a better liar.. i mean... uhm...prospector!!  :-P (Joking aside, I do want to preserve our history, and just want to know whats legal or not)

Thanks for the help!

 

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Careful in AZ and we only take artifacts from private property permissions, it is in the air, but law says 100 years, other not so law abiding agencies say 50....

https://www.blm.gov/sites/blm.gov/files/documents/files/collecting_on_publiclands.pdf

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Southern Arizona is full of ranches with private land. I’ve been pretty lucky getting permission to detect a few ranches. One had some good arrowheads and gold. Start asking ranch owners, you might be surprised what you can get access to.

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Thank you Bill,  that very clearly states that it is illegal.  It is definately something that I will be more aware of when out prospecting.  Dont want to get caught with a boot tack!! Haha.  Thanks a lot! 

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Here is the Federal law. Note the last paragraph that refers to policy. This allows agencies to develop specific rules within the boundaries of this law. So depending on where you are the laws may be slightly different.

Note section two and the words "scientific interest". This could (and does) include meteorites, rare plants and fungus, etc. etc.

The policies of the BLM, FS, Nat Parks and Monuments are unique but they all preclude the digging and recovery of items deemed to be "historically significant". Boot tacks are certainly not included in this definition but it is rather arbitrary and is open to interpretation of the agencies. The line is somewhere in between boot tacks and an old spur. Whether the boot itself is illegal to dig is vague. The spur definitely is out of bounds.

States may also enact laws protecting artifacts and many have. Some States claim even the artifacts found on private land. It don't know whether this has been challenged in court, but there are LEO's that think it does extend to private lands.

The good news is that very few people are prosecuted under this law. Many loose their finds over it but very few actually see any legal action. Some of the worst violators have been BLM officials.

If you are selling found artifacts, antiquities, cave minerals, vertebrate fossils or endangred species they will throw the book at you. Otherwise the worst that will probably happen is you loose your finds.

...If you are detecting in a sensitive area and you have a pocket full of old junk you will loose the detector. In some areas an LEO will take your detector even if they just see it in your truck. It all depends on the situation and where you are in proximity to cultural or historic sites.

Bob

 

American Antiquities Act of 1906

16 USC 431-433

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That any person who shall appropriate, excavate, injure, or destroy any historic or prehistoric ruin or monument, or any object of antiquity, situated on lands owned or controlled by the Government of the United States, without the permission of the Secretary of the Department of the Government having jurisdiction over the lands on which said antiquities are situated, shall, upon conviction, be fined in a sum of not more than five hundred dollars or be imprisoned for a period of not more than ninety days, or shall suffer both fine and imprisonment, in the discretion of the court.

Sec. 2. That the President of the United States is hereby authorized, in his discretion, to declare by public proclamation historic landmarks, historic and prehistoric structures, and other objects of historic or scientific interest that are situated upon the lands owned or controlled by the Government of the United States to be national monuments, and may reserve as a part thereof parcels of land, the limits of which in all cases shall be confined to the smallest area compatible with proper care and management of the objects to be protected: Provided, That when such objects are situated upon a tract covered by a bona fied unperfected claim or held in private ownership, the tract, or so much thereof as may be necessary for the proper care and management of the object, may be relinquished to the Government, and the Secretary of the Interior is hereby authorized to accept the relinquishment of such tracts in behalf of the Government of the United States.

Sec. 3. That permits for the examination of ruins, the excavation of archaeological sites, and the gathering of objects of antiquity upon the lands under their respective jurisdictions may be granted by the Secretaries of the Interior, Agriculture, and War to institutions which the may deem properly qualified to conduct such examination, excavation, or gathering, subject to such rules and regulation as they may prescribe: Provided, That the examinations, excavations, and gatherings are undertaken for the benefit of reputable museums, universities, colleges, or other recognized scientific or educational institutions, with a view to increasing the knowledge of such objects, and that the gatherings shall be made for permanent preservation in public museums.

Sec. 4. That the Secretaries of the Departments aforesaid shall make and publish from time to time uniform rules and regulations for the purpose of carrying out the provisions of this Act.

Approved, June 8, 1906

Edited by Bedrock Bob

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21 hours ago, theace115 said:

Hey all,

I have heard a couple people tell me that it is illegal to remove anything (man made) from BLM land that is more than 100 years old.  I cannot find any solid information regarding this online.  Can someone please guide me in the right direction, post links, post US Statute numbers, etc.  I would like to research this more so I can become a better liar.. i mean... uhm...prospector!!  :-P (Joking aside, I do want to preserve our history, and just want to know whats legal or not)

Thanks for the help!

 

Screenshot_20180917-082758_Facebook.jpg

https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/r3/recreation/regulations/?cid=fsbdev3_022266

 Archeological resources including any material remains of prehistoric or historic human life or activities, which are at least 50 years old, and includes the physical site, location, or context in which they are found. (36 CFR 261.2) The collection of projectile points, pottery, or any other archeological resource or artifact is not allowed (36 CFR 261.9 (h) without a permit. Projectile points include ‘arrowheads’ and any prehistoric human-modified stone.
Searching for artifacts (man made objects) with metal detectors is discouraged, as any ancient or historical artifacts found may not be removed from federal lands, such as old coins, metal implements, or utensils.

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55 minutes ago, BMc said:

https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/r3/recreation/regulations/?cid=fsbdev3_022266

 Archeological resources including any material remains of prehistoric or historic human life or activities, which are at least 50 years old, and includes the physical site, location, or context in which they are found. (36 CFR 261.2) The collection of projectile points, pottery, or any other archeological resource or artifact is not allowed (36 CFR 261.9 (h) without a permit. Projectile points include ‘arrowheads’ and any prehistoric human-modified stone.
Searching for artifacts (man made objects) with metal detectors is discouraged, as any ancient or historical artifacts found may not be removed from federal lands, such as old coins, metal implements, or utensils.

The Archaeological Resources Protection Act of 1979 (Pub.L. 96–95 as amended, 93 Stat. 721, codified at 16 U.S.C. §§ 470aa–470mm), also referred to as ARPA, is a federal law of the United States passed in 1979 and amended in 1988. ... ARPA also forbids any sales, purchase, exchange, transport, or receipt.

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Yup. Them's the rules on BLM and FS lands.  And State trust lands are even more restrictive. Ditto with most other land status.

And then there is a New Mexico State law somewhere out there that gives the law special search and seizure procedures on artifacts too. Kinda like a Game Warden who can stop you and search you, or enter your private land or home without a warrant. It is meant for Native American artifacts but the law can use it in the field for other things. And they interpret that to mean artifacts found on private land or kept in private collections. Whether that flies I court or not is another matter all together. But that wont keep them from taking your finds and your detector if they feel like it.

The actual laws make little difference anyway. Very few are prosecuted. What happens in the field is dictated by the individuals involved and THAT is what is really important. Since most people who are arrowhead hunting or detecting for artifacts are dealt with in the field and no charges are pursued it is all about the situation. And a treasure hunter can make sure the situation is controlled so that the biggest liability he faces is losing a pocketful of junk and possibly a detector. 

Edited by Bedrock Bob

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It's perfectly legal to hunt for, and keep, arrowheads found on the surface. Mining is exempt from the Antiquities Act and so are coins, bullets and common trash. It's all right there in the actual law.

As the chief archie for the BLM and Forest in southern Arizona told me, to prosecute anyone he would have to show up in court and testify that what you dug up was more than 100 years old AND that it was an archaeological resource. He said other than digging up native graves or native settlements he wasn't about to put his rep on the line for old nails or junk from a ghost town. If you aren't a pot hunter or grave robber you have nothing to worry about.

Stay away from digging in designated historic sites, graves and marked archaeology sites and you will be fine - except in California where, from what I understand, a shovel permit now requires a 10 week waiting period.

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I find that to be bizarre,  I personally would much rather admire an arrowhead on a display shelf in my living room, or an old mining relic, as opposed to letting it rust away in nature.  I can understand the selling of relics somewhat...  cause then it would cause an actual market for these items and would potentially cause issues.   IDK, I do appreciate y'alls help.  I'm indifferent about these rules for sure.

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To prosecute someone is one thing. The letter of the law matters in court. It makes a lot less difference in what happens in the field. 

Confiscating your detector and finds and then declining to prosecute you is what generally happens. Then the onus is upon the treasure hunter to jump through hoops to get their equipment back. BLM and FS LEO's can and will stop you, ask what is in your pockets, want to search you, ask you questions and take your equipment. They will tell you that collecting arrowheads is a crime. Every one of them. Whether or not they can win in court is another argument completely. 

Almost a decade ago the BLM and FS LEO's started taking your surface collected arrowheads if they saw them. No matter what that line in the "law" says. Because there is another line in there about "culturally sensitive areas" and they have a lot of leeway with defining that. So if you have ANYTHING in your pockets that you picked up from the ground the LEO has an angle to pursue it. Again, whether it flies in court is really not the issue.

Over a decade ago I had my detector confiscated just driving down a forest road with it in my front seat. I was near an historic area, but in Northern New Mexico you are ALWAYS near an historic area. I had to pick up my detector a week later in Las Vegas after freaking out about it for a week. I had clearly not broken any laws, nor had they accused me of breaking any. But they were the big winners in the fight.

So what is written in the law and how it plays on the ground is two different games all together. It is up to the person in the field to know their rights, be smart, and position themselves correctly so this does not happen.

When speaking with an LEO while holding an arrowhead or a detector you are not going to get anywhere by quoting the law to them. And when they ask questions or want to see what you have in your pockets your reaction dictates what happens next. The actual laws that govern artifacts become completely irrelevant. When they reach over and get your detector in their hands you are constrained by a whole different set of laws and rules. It isn't always about the law and what is legal to hunt for.

Thus the conundrum with quoting the law. While the law is written in black and white how it plays out in the field is generally a rainbow of colors. Those colors are painted by the LEO and the guy in the field.

 

 

Edited by Bedrock Bob
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2 hours ago, Bedrock Bob said:

Here is the Federal law. Note the last paragraph that refers to policy. This allows agencies to develop specific rules within the boundaries of this law. So depending on where you are the laws may be slightly different.

Note section two and the words "scientific interest". This could (and does) include meteorites, rare plants and fungus, etc. etc.

The policies of the BLM, FS, Nat Parks and Monuments are unique but they all preclude the digging and recovery of items deemed to be "historically significant". Boot tacks are certainly not included in this definition but it is rather arbitrary and is open to interpretation of the agencies. The line is somewhere in between boot tacks and an old spur. Whether the boot itself is illegal to dig is vague. The spur definitely is out of bounds.

States may also enact laws protecting artifacts and many have. Some States claim even the artifacts found on private land. It don't know whether this has been challenged in court, but there are LEO's that think it does extend to private lands.

The good news is that very few people are prosecuted under this law. Many loose their finds over it but very few actually see any legal action. Some of the worst violators have been BLM officials.

If you are selling found artifacts, antiquities, cave minerals, vertebrate fossils or endangred species they will throw the book at you. Otherwise the worst that will probably happen is you loose your finds.

...If you are detecting in a sensitive area and you have a pocket full of old junk you will loose the detector. In some areas an LEO will take your detector even if they just see it in your truck. It all depends on the situation and where you are in proximity to cultural or historic sites.

Bob

 

American Antiquities Act of 1906

16 USC 431-433

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That any person who shall appropriate, excavate, injure, or destroy any historic or prehistoric ruin or monument, or any object of antiquity, situated on lands owned or controlled by the Government of the United States, without the permission of the Secretary of the Department of the Government having jurisdiction over the lands on which said antiquities are situated, shall, upon conviction, be fined in a sum of not more than five hundred dollars or be imprisoned for a period of not more than ninety days, or shall suffer both fine and imprisonment, in the discretion of the court.

Sec. 2. That the President of the United States is hereby authorized, in his discretion, to declare by public proclamation historic landmarks, historic and prehistoric structures, and other objects of historic or scientific interest that are situated upon the lands owned or controlled by the Government of the United States to be national monuments, and may reserve as a part thereof parcels of land, the limits of which in all cases shall be confined to the smallest area compatible with proper care and management of the objects to be protected: Provided, That when such objects are situated upon a tract covered by a bona fied unperfected claim or held in private ownership, the tract, or so much thereof as may be necessary for the proper care and management of the object, may be relinquished to the Government, and the Secretary of the Interior is hereby authorized to accept the relinquishment of such tracts in behalf of the Government of the United States.

Sec. 3. That permits for the examination of ruins, the excavation of archaeological sites, and the gathering of objects of antiquity upon the lands under their respective jurisdictions may be granted by the Secretaries of the Interior, Agriculture, and War to institutions which the may deem properly qualified to conduct such examination, excavation, or gathering, subject to such rules and regulation as they may prescribe: Provided, That the examinations, excavations, and gatherings are undertaken for the benefit of reputable museums, universities, colleges, or other recognized scientific or educational institutions, with a view to increasing the knowledge of such objects, and that the gatherings shall be made for permanent preservation in public museums.

Sec. 4. That the Secretaries of the Departments aforesaid shall make and publish from time to time uniform rules and regulations for the purpose of carrying out the provisions of this Act.

Approved, June 8, 1906

That's not the federal law Bob. That's the 1906 Antiquities Act that was declared unconstitutional and void by the Court in United States v. Diaz (1974).

Interestingly Diaz' arrest in 1973 was the first time since 1906 that anyone was prosecuted under the 1906 Act. The Diaz prosecution resulted in the Act being overturned. Diaz won after admitting taking seven ceremonial masks from a cave on tribal lands then displaying those masks in his shop window in Scottsdale.

Eventually Congress got around to writing a new Antiquities Act in 1979. You can read the real Antiquities Act HERE.

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36 minutes ago, clay said:

That's not the federal law Bob. That's the 1906 Antiquities Act that was declared unconstitutional and void by the Court in United States v. Diaz (1974).

Interestingly Diaz' arrest in 1973 was the first time since 1906 that anyone was prosecuted under the 1906 Act. The Diaz prosecution resulted in the Act being overturned. Diaz won after admitting taking seven ceremonial masks from a cave on tribal lands then displaying those masks in his shop window in Scottsdale.

Eventually Congress got around to writing a new Antiquities Act in 1979. You can read the real Antiquities Act HERE.

Whatever Clay. 

If the mission is finding something wrong with what I post then you are a master. You are also a master at ignoring the point I was trying to make, which I believe was a very valid one. 

Bob

 

Edited by Bedrock Bob
Because picking apart details does not change anything where the rubber meets the road.

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32 minutes ago, Bedrock Bob said:

Whatever Clay. 

If the mission is finding something wrong with what I post then you are a master. You are also a master at ignoring the point I was trying to make, which I believe was a very valid one. 

Bob

 

No Bob, my "mission" was to correct misinformation about the law. I do that a lot. Sadly it is part of my real life job. My job is getting easier because miners and mining companies are becoming more educated about their rights and responsibilities. In part that is because of my very public efforts to educate and inform miners and land users.

I'm sorry if you feel singled out, that's certainly not the case as you would know if you read my writings over the last 10 or so years on this and other forums. I can assure you others here have been educated in your absence. I'm sure there are more than a few people on this forum and elsewhere who have had their knowledge brought up to date by my posts and links about the facts. It was misinformation about the law on a public forum was what prompted me to respond - not the fact that it was you that posted the misinformation.

I get it that you don't care about the law. I'm actually pretty much aware of what you are putting out as your philosophy. I didn't respond to your opinions about the law but I did correct the misinformation you posted. That matters to some of us more than your opinion does. I'm sorry if that's offensive to you but learning the facts seem to affect some people that way. In the meantime please continue to share your opinions - although I may not personally always agree with your opinions I do find them entertaining. :)

Edited by clay
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Hey guys,  Lets play nice here... 

A lot of good information is coming out of this chat that can help fellow prospectors a year from now reading this. Lets avoid finding fault in someone's post and instead offer a polite way to update and inform someone.

  It's good that Clay brought up the updated antiquities act so that we can reference that and learn about the new laws surrounding it.  I think it is very important too Bob and Clay that we know what has happened in the past and how laws update and change so we can be on the same page.  We are all in the same boat with these laws affecting all of us, and any relevant information is good information.  I don't want to be the next guy that gets prosecuted for some ambiguous BS law, that may or MAY NOT pertain to old mining gear... :-)  I sincerely appreciate everyone's time for posting what they know. 

That was also a very interesting story about your detector getting confiscated, can you expand on the story a bit more?

  I guess if your going to break the law and detect for relics, take your "Bounty Hunter" not your GPX HAHA!!

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25 minutes ago, clay said:

No Bob, my "mission" was to correct misinformation about the law. I do that a lot. Sadly it is part of my real life job. My job is getting easier because miners and mining companies are becoming more educated about their rights and responsibilities. In part that is because of my very public efforts to educate and inform miners and land users.

I'm sorry if you feel singled out, that's certainly not the case as you would know if you read my writings over the last 10 or so years on this and other forums. I can assure you others here have been educated in your absence. I'm sure there are more than a few people on this forum and elsewhere who have had their knowledge brought up to date by my posts and links about the facts. It was misinformation about the law on a public forum was what prompted me to respond - not the fact that it was you that posted the misinformation.

I get it that you don't care about the law. I'm actually pretty much aware of what you are putting out as your philosophy. I didn't respond to your opinions about the law but I did correct the misinformation you posted. That matters to some of us more than your opinion does. I'm sorry if that's offensive to you but learning the facts seem to affect some people that way. In the meantime please continue to share your opinions - although I may not personally always agree with your opinions I do find them entertaining. :)

Your disparaging observations of me and what I care about are out of line. You are getting very personal again. I respectfully ask that you delete them. They are nothing but trolling. 

 

Bob

Edited by Bedrock Bob

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8 minutes ago, theace115 said:

Hey guys,  Lets play nice here... 

A lot of good information is coming out of this chat that can help fellow prospectors a year from now reading this. Lets avoid finding fault in someone's post and instead offer a polite way to update and inform someone.

  It's good that Clay brought up the updated antiquities act so that we can reference that and learn about the new laws surrounding it.  I think it is very important too Bob and Clay that we know what has happened in the past and how laws update and change so we can be on the same page.  We are all in the same boat with these laws affecting all of us, and any relevant information is good information.  I don't want to be the next guy that gets prosecuted for some ambiguous BS law, that may or MAY NOT pertain to old mining gear... :-)  I sincerely appreciate everyone's time for posting what they know. 

That was also a very interesting story about your detector getting confiscated, can you expand on the story a bit more?

  I guess if your going to break the law and detect for relics, take your "Bounty Hunter" not your GPX HAHA!!

Hey Ace, there is no way I am going to discuss anything with this guy on a crusade to "stamp out misinformation".  That is why it is difficult to share here sometimes. If you let anything out one of these guys is going to try and turn it around on you. And this one is famous for it.

I would be happy to discuss my experiences with you by PM if you like. Not on the open forum. At least not while this guy is in a mood.

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Arguing with each other, is what the evil corporate sewage system wants, keeps our minds off them.

We are natives on native soil.

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Really guys? If ya can not play nice ignore each other please.... :nono:

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Since many of the people concerned with this issue prospect in Arizona it might be useful to read the Arizona State laws regarding Antiquities. Arizona was one of the first States to make their own laws regarding Antiquities back in 1927. Since the Arizona law was modeled after the unconstitutional Federal Antiquities Act Arizona's first try at a law was also declared void. Arizona, like the feds, eventually got around to passing a workable Antiquities and Historic property law. Here's the part of the law about antiquities:

Quote

 

§ 41-841. Archaeological and vertebrate paleontological discoveries

A. On lands owned or controlled by this state or any agency of this state a person shall not knowingly excavate in or upon any historic or prehistoric ruin, burial ground, archaeological or vertebrate paleontological site, or site including fossilized footprints, inscriptions made by human agency or any other archaeological, paleontological or historical feature, except when acting as a duly authorized agent of an institution or corporation referred to in § 41-842 .

B. On lands owned or controlled by this state or any agency of this state a person shall not knowingly collect any archaeological specimen or vertebrate paleontological specimen without obtaining a permit authorizing the activity as provided under § 41-842 .  For the purpose of this subsection, “archaeological specimen” means any item resulting from past human life or activities which is at least one hundred years old including petroglyphs, pictographs, paintings, pottery, tools, ornaments, jewelry, textiles, ceremonial objects, weapons, armaments, vessels, ships, vehicles and human skeletal remains.  Archaeological specimen does not include arrowheads, coins or bottles.

 

Much like the Federal Antiquities Act arrowheads, coins and bottles are excluded from regulation.

Notice that Arizona, and all other states, are limited to controlling antiquities on "lands owned or controlled by this state or any agency of this state". Not private or federal lands.

So what about historic artifacts? Arizona only protects Historic properties of State agencies and even then only those properties under the "ownership or control" of the agency. Not private or federal lands.
 

Quote

 

The chief administrator of each state agency is responsible for the preservation of historic properties which are owned or controlled by the agency.  Prior to acquiring, constructing or leasing buildings for purposes of carrying out agency responsibilities, each agency shall consider the use of historic properties available to the agency.  Each agency shall undertake any preservation that is necessary to carry out this article in a manner consistent with the preservation of historic properties, the duties of the agency and the professional standards which the state historic preservation officer recommends.  The chief administrator of a state agency may designate a full-time employee to coordinate the agency's activities under this article.

In cooperation with the state historic preservation officer, each state agency shall establish a program to locate, inventory and nominate to the Arizona register of historic places all properties that are under the agency's ownership or control and that appear to meet the criteria for inclusion on the register.  Each state agency shall exercise caution to assure that the property is not inadvertently transferred, sold, demolished, substantially altered or allowed to deteriorate significantly.  The state historic preservation officer shall include the performance of state agencies in initiating and satisfying the programmatic management of historic properties in the annual report to the legislature and the governor as provided in § 41-151.20 .

 

Basically in Arizona, if you don't dig up a native settlement on State lands or mess with an agency building, you are free to dig where you want on private land or on federal lands where there is no archaeological site. Don't dig up dead people, native sites or state land and you are good to go. This is true of most states with slight, but important, variations.

More notes on the federal Antiquities Act :

The potential for a fine for digging an archaeological resource is directly related to the value of the rusty can you are digging. That's just part of the reason there are virtually no successful prosecutions for tampering with archaeological resources. Old dirty stuff isn't worth trying to fine someone over. Old dirty stuff you dig up while mining is exempt from the act.

Fossils, rocks and meteorites are not protected under the Federal Antiquities Act, only past evidence of human life. That's why it's called the Archeological Protection Act and not the "whatever we want it to apply to protection act".

If others can contribute actual state laws regarding archaeologic and historic protections we might be able to calm some of the unfounded fears about finding old stuff in the ground. The law is almost always less restrictive than what people have been led to believe. It would be nice if prospectors could base their knowledge on actual facts rather than rumors about confiscation and arrest. Then maybe we can get back to digging. :)

Edited by clay
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So, With all the information that was flowing...

TO summarize, if I'm reading this correctly... Dont dig up bodies or anything that has significant historical value on BLM land. (for the most part, any mining relics are basically excluded from the antiquities act and you will not really be touched by the law, because it doesn't really have historical value, and tough to prove that they will be over 100 years old...)

In AZ... common knowledge... State Land is off limits period.... (very similer to BLM, Dont be a grave robber)

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7 hours ago, theace115 said:

So, With all the information that was flowing...

TO summarize, if I'm reading this correctly... Dont dig up bodies or anything that has significant historical value on BLM land. (for the most part, any mining relics are basically excluded from the antiquities act and you will not really be touched by the law, because it doesn't really have historical value, and tough to prove that they will be over 100 years old...)

In AZ... common knowledge... State Land is off limits period.... (very similer to BLM, Dont be a grave robber)

Yeah the not digging bodies thing is kind of important. Mining itself is exempt - not mining equipment. You can mine and not worry about being cited for digging up old stuff. This applies to all federal lands, not just BLM land.
Direct from the Antiquities Act:

Quote

 

Sec. 470kk. Savings provisions

    (a) Mining, mineral leasing, reclamation, and other multiple uses
      Nothing in this chapter shall be construed to repeal, modify, or
      impose additional restrictions on the activities permitted under
      existing laws and authorities relating to mining
, mineral leasing,
      reclamation, and other multiple uses of the public lands.
    (b) Private collections
      Nothing in this chapter applies to, or requires a permit for, the
      collection for private purposes of any rock, coin, bullet, or mineral

      which is not an archaeological resource, as determined under
      uniform regulations promulgated under section 470bb(1) of this title.
    (c) Lands within chapter
      Nothing in this chapter shall be construed to affect any land other
      than public land or Indian land or to affect the lawful recovery,
      collection, or sale of archaeological resources from land other
      than public land or Indian land.

 

Arizona State lands are open if you get a permit for what you want to dig. Not cheap and not quick but it is possible. I know quite a few people mining State lands.

"Significant historical value" is never mentioned in the law. Archaeological resources are. The Antiquities Act doesn't even mention history.

Just because something is old doesn't mean it's of archaeological interest.

As for arrowheads - that's specifically addressed twice in the Antiquities Act - first under the Prohibited acts and criminal penalties section:

Quote

 (g) Removal of arrowheads located on ground surface
    Nothing in subsection (d) of this section shall be deemed
    applicable to any person with respect to the removal of arrowheads
    located on the surface of the ground.

And then again in the Civil penalties section of the law.

Quote

(3) No penalty shall be assessed under this section for the
    removal of arrowheads located on the surface of the ground.

There are quite a few laws relating to fossils but the Antiquities Act is only concerned with human artifacts. There are no laws concerning meteorites in federal or state law.

Just read the law. It's real clear in there. Relying on handouts or phone calls will leave you with a lot of misinformation. Government agents are not legally responsible for giving you incorrect information. As the BLM warning states on all their approved information.

NO WARRANTY IS MADE BY BLM FOR USE OF THE DATA FOR PURPOSES NOT INTENDED BY BLM

Which leaves the big question - if you don't know what their intention is why would you rely on the data? :grr01:

 

Edited by clay

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Clay,

The handouts are a pretty good indication of what the LEO is going to expect from you.  So it matters a lot.

You say one thing. The BLM says something quite different. You insist your info is correct and I don't dispute that. But in the real world the BLM LEO's insist that they are correct whether they are or not

I know what information I am building my game plan around. Just sayin' bro.

Edited by Bedrock Bob

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26 minutes ago, Bedrock Bob said:

Clay,

The handouts are a pretty good indication of what the LEO is going to expect from you.  So it matters a lot.

You say one thing. The BLM says something quite different. You insist your info is correct and I don't dispute that. But in the real world the BLM LEO's insist that they are correct whether they are or not

I know what information I am building my game plan around. Just sayin' bro.

I said nothing Bob. All those words were from the law itself. In the real world the BLM and Forest LEOs are subject to the same laws we are. If there is no law to cite an individual can not be cited. What would they write on the ticket? Each ticket has to cite the law that was broken.

The thing here is I've heard these same tales of fear and drama for years. Several times I've become concerned enough to investigate and talk to the LEOs who have supposedly cited people for the things you believe they can ticket, arrest, confiscate and fine for. Never have any of these stories proven to be true.

If you have any real evidence that any Federal agency has successfully prosecuted someone for picking up arrowheads or digging trash please feel free to share here. Due to prior experience I will not be holding my breath for that event.

When you have the time I would love to tell you true and verifiable stories about the LEO and archie reactions when I've questioned them about these many bogus claims. No tickets, no arrests and no confiscations but plenty of laughter at the thought someone would believe they would waste their time writing tickets for trash.

Each individual has to make their own decision as to what to believe. Some of them believe in magic underwear or flying carpets. Others believe they should live in fear of being caught digging trash. That's all cool with me bro. It's a big wide world of enchantment and I'm far from understanding all of it.

Edited by clay

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