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BMc

SPANISH MINE MONUMENTS IN THE BRADSHAWS?

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11 hours ago, BMc said:

I tend to agree, Uncle Ron. I personally find first hand information more interesting. Especially if it's about gold and in a place where we know gold is found. If I had simply formed an opinion about the rock formations just by reading a book and looking at pictures, I still might have thought that they were interesting (or perhaps not) But as I mentioned before, I took the time to climb (crawl) up onto the figures and I observed the obvious tool marks and evidence of chipping, carving and restructuring that anyone could see in person. I had no interest in conducting a forensic examination to posit as proof of the matter asserted. I made two trips to the location and I concluded that I had seen enough to form an opinion that the formations had been worked by hand tools. The information in Kenworthy's book offered what I still believe to be a reasonable explanation, absent any proof to the contrary. (Bancroft et al notwithstanding) Others have the same opportunity to research the subject or go to the site and make their own observations.  When I made the post I wasn't planning on trying to convince anyone of anything and I'm still not. Nor am I interested in arguing with anyone in the guise of a debate. 

Mac

None of the quoted material was presented as fact by me. Ranting and raving about it isn't going to change or erase the quotation marks indicating material taken from the book, (notation marks means subject matter was quoted) Personally, I don't have an opinion about it one way or another, except for the explanation I have outlined repeatedly. The only "fact" that I am aware of is; I was there, they were there, and the origin and historical implications of the formations as described in the book made sense based on my observations of the numerous photographs contained therein, when compared to the stone figures themselves. 

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poodle.png

Kenworthy wrote, "When "Poodle Monuments" are along a Spanish Trail such as this one , it says: "You are on a ROYAL TRAIL homeward bound". The SENTINEL is ALWAYS depicted in a "Sitting Tail" position."

Bedrock Bob wrote: This means to there must be some more poodles out there somewhere along the main Spanish trails and some good historical info about them. This guy can even tell you what they mean and what position they are "ALWAYS depicted"! 

I live right on the "ROYAL TRAIL" and have studied its history  for about 40 years now. I have walked hundreds of miles along its length. I have a wall of real historical fact about the Spanish conquest and the subsequent colonization period. I can attest there are no poodles anywhere along its length.

Honestly, where does this guy get his information???? Where is any reference that they marked trails with carved poodles much less how the poodles are sitting and what the poodles mean. This is completely preposterous! This is very obviously a fantasy story.

BMc wrote ,"The Indian Head monuments were directional images as well, but also to denote danger and as a warning to be alert and on constant guard in this area. In his book, Kenworthy shows photographs of an actual concealed mine that his expedition discovered, while following Spanish markers and monuments, and includes photographs and considerable detail on "Paraje's" or rest stops for travelers. Kenworthy was interested  in unidentified reststops and discusses the importance of the Prajes and ways to identify them as a possible place where valuable caches may have been left behind and never recovered. "

Bedrock Bob wrote; Where did you get your information? Can you show another example of an outcrop carved into an "indian head"? Can you shed any light on how you came by the knowledge of what it means?

I don't know which is more absurd. Expecting someone to believe things like this at face value or the inability to provide a single shred of logic to support it. We know real things about the Spanish, their trail markers, the conquest and the colonization. We know how they navigated across land and sea. It is a very real, very fascinating history that you can actually learn about. It is also unfortunately, a subject that has been romanticized in treasure stories. Some mistake treasure fantasy for actual historic fact.

I can assure you that each and every premise that this theory is based upon is false. I can support that with actual referenced historical data if you care to discuss it point by point. If you honestly believe there is even a possibility that the Spanish carved outcroppings to resemble poodles you should have the discussion.

Anyone who is interested in the truth and actual Spanish history should seek factual information. This story is as close to real history as a John Wayne movie is to the real old west. 

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22 hours ago, BMc said:

None of the quoted material was presented as fact by me. Ranting and raving about it isn't going to change or erase the quotation marks indicating material taken from the book, (notation marks means subject matter was quoted) Personally, I don't have an opinion about it one way or another, except for the explanation I have outlined repeatedly. The only "fact" that I am aware of is; I was there, they were there, and the origin and historical implications of the formations as described in the book made sense based on my observations of the numerous photographs contained therein, when compared to the stone figures themselves. 

Read the book, the information you seek is contained within, along with numerous photographic depictions, including a photo of John Wayne, who was reportedly an investor and participant in Kenworthy's enterprises (take it or leave it; everyone's choice) The source material may enlighten you and help you avoid confusion between "A Royal Trail" as described in the text, and El Camino Real de Tierra Adentro, (Royal Road of the Interior), which was "The Known World"  There was no need for elaborate permanent markers on "The" Royal Road that was well known to travelers. In the relatively far reaching and unexplored, unfamiliar mountains of the West, that was, allegedly, not the case.

 

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41 minutes ago, BMc said:

Read the book, the information you seek is contained within, along with numerous photographic depictions, including a photo of John Wayne, who was reportedly an investor and participant in Kenworthy's enterprises (take it or leave it; everyone's choice) The source material may enlighten you and help you avoid confusion between "A Royal Trail" as described in the text, and El Camino Real de Tierra Adentro, (Royal Road of the Interior), which was "The Known World"  There was no need for elaborate permanent markers on "The" Royal Road that was well known to travelers. In the relatively far reaching and unexplored, unfamiliar mountains of the West, that was, allegedly, not the case.

 

41 minutes ago, BMc said:

 

Well that explains everything! All the carved poodles are on the "other" royal trails in the far reaching mountains of the west...somewhere outside the accepted historical range of the Spanish Conquest and subsequent colonization. As well as all the carved "indian" heads and all those other signs with specific meaning. Just not on the Camino Real or leading to any recorded Spanish mine we actually know about in the entire Spanish kingdom which at one point spanned the majority of the western hemisphere. :25r30wi:

Because the Kings law applied only to those mines and not to all mines as previously asserted?  :idunno:

You are quite a character BMc. If your appetite for knowledge was a strong as your appetite for denial you would eat books with maple syrup.

Have a great day Mac! :rolleyes:

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1 hour ago, Bedrock Bob said:

Well that explains everything! All the carved poodles are on the "other" royal trails in the far reaching mountains of the west...somewhere outside the accepted historical range of the Spanish Conquest and subsequent colonization. As well as all the carved "indian" heads and all those other signs with specific meaning. Just not on the Camino Real or leading to any recorded Spanish mine we actually know about in the entire Spanish kingdom which at one point spanned the majority of the western hemisphere. :25r30wi:

Because the Kings law applied only to those mines and not to all mines as previously asserted?  :idunno:

You are quite a character BMc. If your appetite for knowledge was a strong as your appetite for denial you would eat books with maple syrup.

Have a great day Mac! :rolleyes:

Fini? (finally!) Please God, let it be so. And the congregation (forum) said, Amen!

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Here is a possible monument which is located somewhere between the rock head I posted and the Peralta mines.

monument5.jpg

monument4.jpg

monument3.jpg

monument2sml.jpg

monument1sml.jpg

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1 hour ago, Red_desert said:

Here is a possible monument which is located somewhere between the rock head I posted and the Peralta mines.

monument5.jpg

monument4.jpg

monument3.jpg

monument2sml.jpg

monument1sml.jpg

That is obviously an outcropping carved into the shape of a Chiweenie. It was the royal dog of the Nahuatl. The chief Moctezuma ordered all emerald mines marked with a Chiweenie. All of these monuments always depict the Chiweenie in the "leg hump" position. It meant that someone is trying to spoon feed you horsepucky and will claim you are being mean to them if you refuse to swallow it. 

There is a carved Chiweenie every 1200 yards along all Nahuatl trails as required by the chief Moctezuma. This was mandatory for all trails except for the main trails and the side trails the Nahuatl actually used. Moctezuma was very strict about that and anyone who did not mark the trail every 1200 yards was subject to severe punishment. This was a strict rule for all mines except the ones we know about and all trails except the ones we know they used.

All of this has been researched and detailed in the book, "Acid West" by Joshua Wheeler. Wheeler has done exhaustive research on the Nahuatl trail markers and symbols and has written numerous limericks and witty sayings on craphouse walls throughout the remote mountains of the west where the Nahuatl never ventured. He is recognized as one of the most widely quoted cabezons on the subject of Nahuatl markers outside the accepted range of the Nahuatl people. 

All supporting evidence and references are contained in the book. So don't ask me to discuss any glaring contradictions with you one on one here. And if you don't believe it I will swear I never insisted any of it was true and only offered it as a possible theory that I myself have no vested interest in. Except for the fact that I posted it and hold it out to be true until I am challenged and then I will oppose any logic to the contrary.

No one can prove this is not a carved Chiweenie in the leg hump position. I myself have climbed up to it and have satisfied myself that it is a genuine Nahuatl monument because I saw mortar and tool marks and spray painted graffiti that had to be Nahuatl. I offer $1000 for anyone who can prove me wrong. So until someone proves this is not a carved Nahuatl Chiweenie left to guard an ancient emerald mine the story is true. If the story is proven false I am already on record saying I don't really believe it anyway.

 

 

 

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The photo was taken by a retired PH D scientist, along with other pics he emailed to me. According to his use of mineral satellite images, he got himself by setting up the satellite. This possible monument sits right on top of the edge of the alteration zone producing quartz veins. He also said there is a series of springs or weeps as they called them, the last one here running from Y Canyon which is to the SE. The retired PH D scientist also told me the best place to find quartz veins with gold in them, is right on the edge of this alteration zone.

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Just noticed, almost looks like a head with ribs below it (top right).

monument1sml-B.jpg

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Here is from original image, one above was reduced in size.

monument1B.jpg

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Now with a better look up close, face seems to disappear and a heart shape left of it.

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Crop it down, see if it still looks like a heart.

monument1Bc.jpg

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So if there is quartz veins with gold in them there why are we looking at faces in the rocks? Why aren't we looking at quartz with gold in it instead?

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One more time, look at it going down.

monument1C.jpg

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20 hours ago, Red_desert said:

monument1sml.jpg

 

19 hours ago, Bedrock Bob said:

All of this has been researched and detailed in the book, "Acid West" by Joshua Wheeler. 

What's sooo funny about this is as soon as I saw this photo, before seeing BB's reply, I immediately had about sixty faces pop out at me.. If that happened in this near 50 year old flash I can't even begin to guess what I'd have seen back in the days of walking with Lab-25 -- probably the entire western Sgt. Pepper's LHC and their plus-1s lol..!

I can take y'all to a stretch of road in W WV (where they blasted through ridges to keep the new highway more level) that absolutely would have qualified as a segment for "Ancient Aliens," so while this is kewl n all it isn't anything super special.. Bob's right: Show us the quartz veins..

Swamp

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I'll be turning 63 years this month, should enjoy quite a few more good years yet. It's been said the only people who ever got rich off of treasure hunting are the ones selling equipment. I know that's not entirely true, but if there is nothing left to search for, we better pack up our equipment and find something else to do.

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Of the information to know, humanity knows a fraction. Of the information at the time in question, humanity know 110%. 

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Yeah, I think the real treasure here would be the artwork. If I'd ever take a trip there, my treasure hunting equipment would be a camera. Then you could have something to paint. The natural beauty of the land is worth far more than what you'd find treasure hunting.

  • well done 1

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I was watching either PBS Antiques Road Show or History Detectives (forget which) where a man brought in a gold nugget painting. The history they gave on it was quite interesting. Even after photography was later used to photograph some of the huge nugget finds made, the early gold rush promotion people had artists paint gold nuggets. The painting on the show, had a nose, eyes, looked like a human face. It worked quite well with the highly exagerated stories written about potential wealth to be found in California. This lured many people to prospect for gold, some did good while others could have made it far better doing something else. The money changers always followed, accepting gold for highly inflated goods, supplies the miners so desperately needed.

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I've come across while online, plenty of those who believe they eventually will become rich treasure hunting. Maybe, but most likely not. For the most part prospecting and/or treasure hunting is getting outdoors, having some form of enjoyable recreation.

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California gold rush wash invented by the railroad companies in the southeast, to draw attention from their gold.

to this day the railroad is the largest land owner in the world. they control the united nations.

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Posted (edited)

I do portrait art myself, the idea was so clever, putting faces to the gold. You talk about subliminal messages in ads. I'd rather see gold in a metal detector ad, instead of some pretty woman hanging on (at least they got that right). There was a discussion on the Aussie prospecting forum about Minelab advertisement. The issue had to do with using gold nugget photos of huge nuggets found by a previous model. Selling a new detector model with nuggets dug from older models.

Edited by Red_desert

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On 8/22/2018 at 4:29 PM, BMc said:
  • Lets not forget Los Indios. I posted these again in a larger format in the event that a critic or other remote viewer might wish to accept my proposal:
  •  I will pledge $1000.00 to set up an escrow account toward the retention of a jointly agreed upon Forensic Scientist or other appropriate expert to examine the accessible rock formations and to conduct an investigation,  including the obtaining of forensic macrophrographic evidence to determine the following : 1) Whether there is evidence of a human element or agency involved in the cutting, shaping or other modification of the formations. 2) age and origin of the formations, geological archaeology, etc. and request for proof sufficient for admissibility in a court of law. If no evidence is found to support and confirm the hypothesis (not fantasy) of human agency, I will pay the experts and laboratory fees in their entirety. If the hypothesis is shown to have merit, the challenger(s) will be responsible for all payment. 

 

 

INDIO-1 ..jpg

  • The below photograph shows what Kenworthy repeatedly points out in his book. When I climbed to the top of the formation, I got a close up view of the rock that has 
  • been secured by  mortar to an adjacent rock in a leaning manner. An open hole (and sky) can be seen through the small rocks at the very top which he alleges was the way
  • the Spanish made sure any one seeing the light of the sky through the hole in the rock would be assured that the formation was a marker and not just a natural rock formation.
  •  
  • INDIO-2.PNG

 

On 8/22/2018 at 4:29 PM, BMc said:
  • Lets not forget Los Indios. I posted these again in a larger format in the event that a critic or other remote viewer might wish to accept my proposal:
  •  I will pledge $1000.00 to set up an escrow account toward the retention of a jointly agreed upon Forensic Scientist or other appropriate expert to examine the accessible rock formations and to conduct an investigation,  including the obtaining of forensic macrophrographic evidence to determine the following : 1) Whether there is evidence of a human element or agency involved in the cutting, shaping or other modification of the formations. 2) age and origin of the formations, geological archaeology, etc. and request for proof sufficient for admissibility in a court of law. If no evidence is found to support and confirm the hypothesis (not fantasy) of human agency, I will pay the experts and laboratory fees in their entirety. If the hypothesis is shown to have merit, the challenger(s) will be responsible for all payment. 

 

 

INDIO-1 ..jpg

  • The below photograph shows what Kenworthy repeatedly points out in his book. When I climbed to the top of the formation, I got a close up view of the rock that has 
  • been secured by  mortar to an adjacent rock in a leaning manner. An open hole (and sky) can be seen through the small rocks at the very top which he alleges was the way
  • the Spanish made sure any one seeing the light of the sky through the hole in the rock would be assured that the formation was a marker and not just a natural rock formation.
  •  
  • INDIO-2.PNG

Classic dichotomy of an anomaly . . .

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Posted (edited)

From your observation was that "mortar" like adobe mud or actually mortar? Are you saying you observed stones laid in clay or earth? Or are you saying you saw stones laid in a cementatious mortar?

Stones laid in clay or mud are certainly not evidence of the Spanish and stones laid in some type of mortar is almost certainly not Spanish. What makes you think this was the work of the Spanish instead of someone else? 

How do we get from what we determine to be crude rock work to knowing who did it and exactly what it meant? Is Kenworthy's book the only thing that links this hypothesis up?

 

 

Edited by Bedrock Bob
The classic dichotomy of an imagined anomaly.

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When  got out of the Army in 73 a few guys and me, went looking for the lost spring gold in Sycamore canyon in AZ. Grubstake

 

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