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Sluicing Question for CA


lucidfind

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Is setting  up in the creek and utilizing a long section of 4" hose to gather water from up creek to my sluice down creek allowing me achieve the proper angle/flow going to get me ejected if I get inspected?

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I've screened intakes and last a lot of flow. 

If you do a YouTube Search you'll see what is really needed for that project.  It's not easy, and under very narrow circumstances two people may be able to make it work.  A lot of work has been done on gravity dredging, but no one is bragging how well they're doing on the gravity dredge.  Something makes me think they shrunk the hose going down the hill to get them more power.  I want to say it was the California 49'ers that had the videos.  What ever videos I watched made me think that's great academic experiment, but what would it take to get this to really work?

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22 minutes ago, chrisski said:

I've screened intakes and last a lot of flow. 

If you do a YouTube Search you'll see what is really needed for that project.  It's not easy, and under very narrow circumstances two people may be able to make it work.  A lot of work has been done on gravity dredging, but no one is bragging how well they're doing on the gravity dredge.  Something makes me think they shrunk the hose going down the hill to get them more power.  I want to say it was the California 49'ers that had the videos.  What ever videos I watched made me think that's great academic experiment, but what would it take to get this to really work?

He's not wanting to do gravity dredging, he's just trying to get enough water flow downstrem to just use his sluicebox properly.

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18 hours ago, lucidfind said:

Is setting  up in the creek and utilizing a long section of 4" hose to gather water from up creek to my sluice down creek allowing me achieve the proper angle/flow going to get me ejected if I get inspected?

 It depends.....I know guys who still dredge....a lot has to do with the area you're in and what the local politics are.  I wouldn't do anything within sight of a road though....the further you get from roads the better it is for everybody involved.

 

 Like I've said before, there are enough federal/state/local laws/ordinances/regulations on mining and waterways, that if there's somebody who wants to shut you down, there's a law/rule/regulation buried somewhere that can be used to discourage even those with a high level of perseverance...

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The California prohibition is on in stream vacuum devices that move stream material.

There is no prohibition on tubing without suction, pumping water or mechanical or machine powered devices.

There are 1000's of people openly using highbankers, dredges and pumps all over the United States. I have seen no effort to obstruct mining except in California and on two Forest districts in the west. Even in California a lot of miners have ignored local regulations that prevent them from mining.

If the gold in your stream is worth the trouble go ahead and mine it the way that's most efficient and the least destructive possible. "Best practice" is the key to good mining.  Use a portion of that money you are getting for your mined gold to hold off the greenies and blue meenies.

Case in point. The Big Cut mine south of Placerville. Big 150 acre open pit mine, great gold, no permits. Mine owner told the State and County to take a hike for years while they mined good gold. The eventual outcome after 7 years of mining a 1-3 ounce per ton deposit, millions in fines and threats of arrest? Mine owners paid $45,000 to reimburse the agencies for their investigation costs and all charges were dropped. Their other mine got an award of $107,000,000 (107 million dollars) in damages from the State. Sounds like a win to me.

If your stretch of the creek is paying the usual 1-3 grams per day you are probably better off stealth panning and digging with your hands as many California "miners" would like you to believe are the regulations. If you are on to some real gold you might consider just doing some mining and pay the vig when the man comes by with his hand out. That's how business is done and always has been done. Money talks. 1-3 grams a day walks.

This isn't about the law. There is no law to prevent you using a hose to redirect water within a stream. The real issue is your tolerance and resolve regarding your ability to mine. If you have difficulty spending 5 or 10 minutes talking to some guy in a uniform or you are afraid of what passersby might say to you it might be better to stick to your hands and pans. If you are willing to go toe to toe with the guy in the uniform while smiling and being knowledgeable about your activity you might make a new friend and and get comfortable with the fact you are mining gold from a stream bed.

Edited by clay
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 Thanks for for all the wisdom fella"s.

Yep AUseeker , built a more aggressive sluice that can be worked for long periods of time between cleanings. It needs a much steeper drop than the creek can offer so I am just trying to innovate that while the smoke clears at the claims.

I hear your words middlefork, sage advice for sure. I prospect in the Siskiyou and Marble mountains mostly and looking to claim in Plumas NF area if I can find one. Way I figure politics are stacked against me anywhere in CA., so I try to work around it the best I can. I dont perambulate with the local forest Law so I remain unsure of the areas enforceable political intent.

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I have no problems talking to the forest law I just haven't had occasion to as of yet due to my remote nature. I do talk to game wardens quite often because my offshore fishing habit.

I dont need to make millions, I am fine with any amount of gold a day. I use a long tom style sluice of my own design. Digging and sluicing and detecting is what I do and I am quit comfortable and good at it.

I have no idea what stealth panning is and I use my hands to manipulate the tools that dig and such.

Don't care what people think but I value the opinions of fellow prospectors when it comes to prospecting.

 

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The California water mining restrictions are State laws. The Forest law enforcement have nothing to do with the State enforcement of their regulations.

Fish and Wildlife are the enforcement authority for dredging. If the game warden guys aren't giving you a hard time about your in stream mining you are good to go.

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6 hours ago, clay said:

Fish and Wildlife are the enforcement authority for dredging. If the game warden guys aren't giving you a hard time about your in stream mining you are good to go.

That's pretty much the bottom line.  BUT,  the "minerals managers" of the U.S. Forest Service in any one of the national forests (different districts) can be a real PITA if he doesn't like you...

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  • 2 weeks later...

Lucid: Trying to employ a four inch hose to increase flow rate in a creek seems to me to involve a lot of work that could be avoided by employing a simple alternative.  Obviously, instead of using a length of 4" hose the local pressure in a stream can be increased by building up wingdams.  That, in turn, should enable you to adjust the slope angle of your sluice accordingly.  You may, however, have some pretty special or even unique local surface features that you are trying to overcome.  In the absence of knowing more details, the following are some  general principles and some general observations to consider:.

Changes in overall volume of water results in increased velocity throughout the stream bed.  For example, after it rains or after flood gates at an upstream dam are opened, then velocity increases accordingly everywhere downstream.  This is so because increased volume results in increased pressure and increased water pressure results in increased velocity.  But in the absence of rain or dam releases if the stream has a low flow issue, borrowing water from an upstream point and dumping it downstream may deplete the upstream volume of water to the point that insufficient upstream water will remain to enable continued flow through the 4" hose.

Do you have some special or peculiar circumstances that counsel against wingdams?  BTW, as long as your wingdams are constructed in a way that allows for the passage of aquatic life the FS even in California usually sees no problem.

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I had a claim in the Klamath Mountains for 25 years...The last  four or 5 years I set up a gravity dredge by hauling in a bunch of 2.5" PVC and running it up the creek about 400 ft. ... I had a drop of about 60+ ft. which gave me around 30 pounds of head ... I used a suction nozzle and my Gold King dredge sluicebox and about 50 feet of fire hose .... It sucked as well or better than my 2.5" dredge...I didn't to it to hide...I did it so I could enjoy the silence while not having to mess with a motor or gas, etc. ....I did just as well or better than using a motorized dredge and it was much more pleasurable...It's a technique that is easier than the motorized dredge ... If your situation has the drop I recommend going through the hassle of setting up the pvc line... Cheers, Unc

 

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Saw ticket for sluicebox for stream degeradation and introduction of a foreign material. Some FW are just insane here in French Gulch a few months back-now under fire/burning. Ask a dumb question first is my only take as some enforcement can't read. John

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6 hours ago, Hoser John said:

Saw ticket for sluicebox for stream degeradation and introduction of a foreign material. Some FW are just insane here in French Gulch a few months back-now under fire/burning. Ask a dumb question first is my only take as some enforcement can't read. John

Actually,   "introduction of foreign material" is against the law....even for panning IF the F&W guys want to press the issue....like I said in an earlier post, if they want to stop you from doing something, there's already a law or regulation written somewhere, that they can use to stop you....

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On 8/23/2018 at 1:11 PM, Dakota Slim said:

The founding fathers are surely rolling in their graves over things like this. 

Yes they are....because WE allow it....if we were as united and as loud as the abortion crowd, maybe the politicians would even pay us to remove the mercury left over from the gold rush days... instead of letting it break down and enter the food chain....

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Between getting my son ready for college and dropping him off and with the heavy smoke I was only able to get a day of work at the claim since my last post.

My sluice is 7ft long in total so its hard to get a good angle just sitting it in the flow the traditional way you would with a shorter sluice box. I found a natural fall with a decent drop that I utilized so I did not tinker with the hose idea yet.

Found a nice layer of older clay and flood material about 1 ft down and recovered some small pieces.

I processed roughly 35 buckets of the flood material.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

20180826_132551.jpg

20180826_133913.jpg

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I really like the two little quartz/gold pieces.  Found those in the lower mat cleanup.

Smokes going to be clearing soon!

Seems like my prospecting is going to primarily be a fall/winter/early spring activity  if the summers keep burning me out.

Been itching to hit some seasonal creeks anyway.

 

 

 

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Very Nice Gold lucidfind!

BMc

Uncle Ron:

"I had a claim in the Klamath Mountains for 25 years...The last  four or 5 years I set up a gravity dredge by hauling in a bunch of 2.5" PVC and running it up the creek about 400 ft. ... I had a drop of about 60+ ft. which gave me around 30 pounds of head ... I used a suction nozzle and my Gold King dredge sluice box and about 50 feet of fire hose .... It sucked as well or better than my 2.5" dredge...I didn't to it to hide...I did it so I could enjoy the silence while not having to mess with a motor or gas, etc. ....I did just as well or better than using a motorized dredge and it was much more pleasurable...It's a technique that is easier than the motorized dredge ... If your situation has the drop I recommend going through the hassle of setting up the PVC line... Cheers, Unc"

Hey Unc, I saw a few of those gravity feed set ups while I was prospecting up that way a few years back. I don't think the ones I saw were intended for that type of gold though . . . just sayin'  :shhhhh:

 

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