Red_desert Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 (edited) I sent an email to find out, have not heard anything back yet. I found the profile album and it has the avatar plus other photos which definitely are a lady. She just looks like, could be the mother of the girl. I've seen large chunks of quartz collected together the same way before, certain places in Arizona. If there was gold, don't think she is the type that would be interested in prospecting... probably wants to be alone out there with nature. I was at another Native American site, made a couple comments, about 2-3 hour later get a notification her page sent me an invite. I don't think I'd ever seen it before, clicking on the invite is how I got there first time. Edited January 14, 2020 by Red_desert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Au Seeker Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 44 minutes ago, Red_desert said: I sent an email to find out, have not heard anything back yet. I found the profile album and it has the avatar plus other photos which definitely are a lady. She just looks like, could be the mother of the girl. I've seen large chunks of quartz collected together the same way before, certain places in Arizona. If there was gold, don't think she is the type that would be interested in prospecting... probably wants to be alone out there with nature. I was at another Native American site, made a couple comments, about 2-3 hour later get a notification her page sent me an invite. I don't think I'd ever seen it before, clicking on the invite is how I got there first time. I can assure you she is not the girl in your initial image posted, that image was taken from the internet and I have seen it on several sites. Also it's hard to tell for sure but that images could very well be a painting and not a photo, it really blurry when enlarged but looks more like a painting than a photo. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_desert Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 Some of them look quite a bit alike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_desert Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 It's only a fan site because I got the top fan award which got me her name and FB personal page. She lives in Florida, has an education in equine health from Kentucky. This is my award photo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Au Seeker Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 6 hours ago, Red_desert said: It's only a fan site because I got the top fan award which got me her name and FB personal page. She lives in Florida, has an education in equine health from Kentucky. This is my award photo. Congratulations on the award, nice image but not a photo, it's another painting, the artist signed it the lower right corner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Tom Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 Yeah, but Skip, what he got was a photo of a painting. Had he got the painting it would have been a lot better. I would have liked her phone number instead. Old Tom 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Au Seeker Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 53 minutes ago, Old Tom said: Yeah, but Skip, what he got was a photo of a painting. Had he got the painting it would have been a lot better. I would have liked her phone number instead. Old Tom Old Tom I stand corrected and I concur on all the rest!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_desert Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 (edited) Ok, I did some checking out on FB, she is a member of the Cherokee Nation group which they need to join, should have a documented linage. Was from Lexington and the profile is still up but updated was for the horses. Crazy Crow Trading Post operated by the Cherokees in Oklahoma, I used to get catalogs from them in the mail. One of them had a painting on the cover. The cover story read about how a white artist painted a portrait of the Cherokee princess who is a clothing model for Native American fashions, did some modeling in Crazy Crow. I'm not saying that is her, I give up figuring things out. End of discussion. Edited January 16, 2020 by Red_desert 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_desert Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 Correction-she was a Native American princess who modeled native fashions, can't be sure now if she was Cherokee, but modeled for the Cherokee Crazy Crow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_desert Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 (edited) I thought I might still have the Crazy Crow catalog. Sure enough, read the cover story for the painting. It doesn't give her English name, only a tribal name in some Indian language. If you could translate it into English, the name probably would be a combination of an animal plus either something from their religion or representing a personal characteristic. The catalog is several years old, probably more like getting close to 10 years. At the time published, it said she lived in Nashville which is the same geographical area. The artist was a very good friend of her and she modeled frequently for him. This means there could be many paintings of her out there, done over a period of time. Some no doubt younger looking and as she got older, a little older looking. All of them paintings and if you compare paintings with the actual photograph, any recent photos will be at least 10 years older than paintings. If I check to see exactly when the Crazy Crow was published, not going to help things. I would think being in that many paintings is a good enough reason to have a fan site. Girl in video playing flute is not a painting only a screenshot from the video. In FB search results her Florida profile is linked to Apache Native American fan site and also to Cherokee Native American group, which her profile in there on posts shows up as Apache Native American with that avatar. The people in the group making the posts have more or less Cherokee ancestry. A Native American can be part Cherokee and be also part of another tribe. The Lexington profile has the same avatar as the Florida profile and reposted some of same photos on it. Since she got her education in Kentucky, maybe after moving to Florida lost password or got shut out somehow with a change of email account. Edited January 16, 2020 by Red_desert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_desert Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 (edited) Add 1 more thing, just learned she also is admin, at the Cherokee Native American group, I know these people are of the Cherokee tribe. The girl on Crazy Crow cover might not be the same girl, don't know until can take time to search Internet with tribal name. Edited January 17, 2020 by Red_desert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garimpo Posted January 18, 2020 Author Share Posted January 18, 2020 RD what tribal name did you get for her? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_desert Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 (edited) On 1/18/2020 at 12:39 PM, garimpo said: RD what tribal name did you get for her? I don't have a tribal name for her, only the English which doesn't help much in Internet search. I do have the tribal name for the girl on Crazy Crow cover. I'd have to get out catalog again and write it down. Was thinking it gives name of artist also in the cover story. If you want to see the catalog cover, I need to wait for a good sunny day to snap good quality SLR photos close to window. On Crazy Crow cover the girl is wearing period clothing like they sell in Crazy Crow for historical reenactors. Even though everything comes in both Cherokee and Lakota traditions, at the time it was owned and operated by the Cherokee tribe Oklahoma. Both girls have dark hair, were about the same age, probably physical appearance, but period clothing covers up too well and very loose, so you can't really tell by looking if same girl or not. I'll just have to write down tribal name for 1 girl see if both are one-and-the-same. Edited January 19, 2020 by Red_desert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_desert Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 (edited) Ahnawake Clinch, a member of the Cherokee Nation, past princess of the Native American Indian Association. I found the Crazy Crow cover painting on the Internet plus others I'm getting ready to post. Bottom line is her daddy probably was once chief of the Cherokee Nation OK. Edited January 20, 2020 by Red_desert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_desert Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 Meet Cherokee Nation princess Ahnawake Clinch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_desert Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 (edited) I got the artist on FB now, just left him a comment. He made this comment with the Crazy Crow cover art on December 24, 2019. I've only had FB about 2-3 weeks, so this might be about the same time I joined (or maybe a little before.). Painted in 1990. Edited January 21, 2020 by Red_desert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMc Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 Red_desert, I was wondering if you were ever able to identify the tribe of the the Native male and female shown in the court ship ritual painting by James Ayers in your original post? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_desert Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 (edited) 12 hours ago, BMc said: Red_desert, I was wondering if you were ever able to identify the tribe of the the Native male and female shown in the court ship ritual painting by James Ayers in your original post? No idea at all yet, I think there is another dark haired girl in paintings from another tribe. I know nothing about her, but just the other day got my top fan recognition badge/award from that fan page. The Florida profile linked to the Cherokee Native American group as the Admin and also the Apache Native American fan page, probably is just that, the Admin. Ahnawake Clinch since painting was done in 1990, is older now and don't think she has the time or patience to run a fan site page plus watch things at the Cherokee group. The catalog was 2008 which offered limited edition prints, wishing now I'd bought a couple of them since they some day might be worth a lot of money. Edited January 21, 2020 by Red_desert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_desert Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 I'm nearly almost sure now, this is the Admin at Apache Native American posted Jan 5th and also believe same as girl in painting with horse on the award profile (definitely not Ahnawake Clinch). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garimpo Posted January 24, 2020 Author Share Posted January 24, 2020 Gotta hand it to you RD, your doing a great job researching those pics. From what little I've been able to find is the name Ahnawake Clinch is Cherokee. My first wifes grandparents could just barely speak English. They had a church about six miles East of Hartshorne,OK. I went there with her one Sunday and that was a different experience for sure. All of the church service was in the Cherokee language. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_desert Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 There is still plenty yet unknown need to search, First time typing in Bing search the name Ahnawake, it gave 2 suggestions before finished typing. It gave Clinch followed by my mother's maiden name. I need to go back to see if there is an Ahnawake on the final roles with mom's maiden last name. You type the last name in the final roles and get a whole page under Cherokee and Choctaw. The name doesn't come up not even once on all the other tribes. According to my mother it is of Irish Roman Catholic origin going back to 2 signatures on the Declaration of Independence. One of the signatures ending in mom's maiden name was supposed to have been the wealthiest person living here in the new world. If it turns out Ahnawake is even distantly related to me, need to know more about this. I know my mother was named after a great (or great, great) grandmother who came over here from England, married a man from Ireland who had Scottish relatives. The family name on mom's side is also the name of a county of my home state. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_desert Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 I typed Ahnawake plus mom's maiden last name and it brought up the Cherokee Nation Profile pdf document. At the very top in bold is the name Ahnawake plus mom's maiden last name. http://lawschool.unm.edu/tlj/common/docs/volumes/vol-3-carroll-ahnawake-cherokee-nation-tribal-profile.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_desert Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 (edited) Saved a pdf copy, 19 pages in all, tells about Cherokee Nation history, laws, etc. Cherokee Nation Tribal Profile Ahnawake Carroll1 INTRODUCTION The Cherokee Nation is one of the largest Indian tribes in the United States.2 The traditional territory of the Cherokee Nation originally encompassed the entire southeastern portion of the United States.3 Due to forced removal in 1838– 39,4 however, the Cherokee people were displaced to Indian Territory in what is now the state of Oklahoma.5 Located in northeastern Oklahoma, the Cherokee tribe currently has over 150,000 members.6 In addition, approximately 13,000 people in northeastern Oklahoma currently speak a dialect of the Cherokee language.7 The tribal land base consists of 124,000 acres spanning fourteen counties.8 Although the land base does not have the status of a reservation, the Cherokee Nation is “considered a jurisdictional service area.” 9 The current tribal government is organized into a “tripartite democratic structure” consisting of legislative, executive, and judicial branches.10 The focus of this profile is to provide an overview of the internal laws of the Cherokee Nation, with specific emphasis upon tribal use of traditional law, law of governance, enacted law, case law, and legal issues concerning the tribe at the international level. Edited January 25, 2020 by Red_desert 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_desert Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 (edited) A little more research turned up Ahnawake Carroll is the author of this pdf, also found another pdf same author on the Cherokee Nation. The author either was or is a law student at University of New Mexico. Found another link where Ahnawake Carroll now resides in Oklahoma, not sure if both the same person. Don, you can do a free final roles search here, at Oklahoma Historical Society. All needed is the last name, will get you the number. https://www.okhistory.org/research/dawes As for Indian princess, they don't have them anymore, only a Native American pageant, Cherokee never called them that, other tribes it was the daughter of a chief. http://www.naiatn.org/about/miss-naia/ Edited January 26, 2020 by Red_desert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garimpo Posted January 27, 2020 Author Share Posted January 27, 2020 RAIN, RAIN, RAIN, had to dig out an old pic so I won't forget what gold looks like...... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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