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Can a 49cc roto tiller be used to till an area then detect it. I saw a guy in Gold Basin with one and I was just interested if it is legal  to do.

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41 minutes ago, azdigger said:

Can a 49cc roto tiller be used to till an area then detect it. I saw a guy in Gold Basin with one and I was just interested if it is legal  to do.

And then can I use my quad with a scraper blade to pull the material into a pile for my drywasher ?

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.Azdigger,

Unless you plan to dry wash that dirt I wouldn't bother. Focus on detecting in ground shallow enough for your detector to see. Once you find a patch you might consider tilling and dry washing but it's been my experience where I live in SE AZ that nugget patches aren't great for dry washing due to spotty fine gold. As always ymwv. BTW like many on the forum it took years to find my first nugget. I suggest that you maybe contact Mike F. on the forum and he can help shorten the learning curve for you. After finding my first nugget I relized that I really needed to get spooled up on geology. After spending a couple of years studying geology and doing some work underground with some old school miners the whole prospecting thing clicked and now I'm finding gold regularly. Chris Ralph's Fists full of gold is a excellent place to start in learning geology then move on to more technical book thereafter. You asked about seeing an old patch and chances are slim that people will give up that hard won data. Instead go to mindat.org and do a search for gold mines in the area you want to detect. Drive or hike to those mines and examine the host rock and vein structure the gold runs in. Now search open ground in the area looking for similar host and vein material. That technique works great for me.

DP

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I really don't think that'd be legal without a permit.  Something about motorized digging.  You could probably get a permit.  Just pricey.

My question back to you would be how would the tiller work in hard pack dirt with some 6" rocks?  My dad used it in the garden and I don't remember it being too good with the rocks.  I never took up gardening.  Haven't seen a wash around the area that is not packed with rocks like that.  I don't see a lot of boulders, just a lot of sharp cobbles between 2" and 6".

As far as legal, I doubt there'd be someone to ticket you.

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Reason I asked is I saw a man drive his atv up a hill , get off ,take a small rototiller, till an area about 10x10 then detect it, he found a couple of nuggets. Thought it was kind of different.

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Sounds like less than significant disturbance to me. Its also under 10horse power. Just do reclamation when done no worries. 

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2 hours ago, azdigger said:

Reason I asked is I saw a man drive his atv up a hill , get off ,take a small rototiller, till an area about 10x10 then detect it, he found a couple of nuggets. Thought it was kind of different.

Did you go and detect it after he left?

What detector was he using?

 

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So were you were just sitting on the hill with binoculars ... watching him pull out a couple nuggets?  uh..huh.   :89:.    Stalker.  

just joking with you Rick.

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I was drywashing in the wash , and nope did not go detect....had no machine at the time.

This was some time  ago .

I do have my  " spy glasses" with me now :ROFL:

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In a few very productive areas I've returned with a steel toothed rake and removed a few inches of gravel/rock and found a few more nuggets but never mechanized. I carry a 3 tooth hand claw for cracks/crevices for the same purpose. John

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23 hours ago, azdigger said:

Can a 49cc roto tiller be used to till an area then detect it. I saw a guy in Gold Basin with one and I was just interested if it is legal  to do.

I really doubt you can use mechanized equipment to dig, till, plow without some type of permit. I'd say this guy knew that area was a producing patch and that's why he tilled it, legal or not.

Unless you already know of a good productive area, just going around and tilling a spot would be a waste of time.

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Here in Nv,  there are several people that do that. It is still a "Hand tool". A guy i know also runs a pull behind type backhoe/digger and he doesn't need a permit for it because it doesn't travel under its own power. 

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On ‎10‎/‎25‎/‎2017 at 7:30 AM, nugget108 said:

Here in Nv,  there are several people that do that. It is still a "Hand tool". A guy i know also runs a pull behind type backhoe/digger and he doesn't need a permit for it because it doesn't travel under its own power. 

If it is pulled behind a vehicle whether ATV or truck, that sounds like barracks lawyering to me.  If it's a hand tool, I'd be interested in a picture.

I am a firm believer that the law ends where the pavement ends, and anything short of a capital offense will raise no immediate concern from law enforcement.   Repeated use of this equipment in the area would certainly raise interest if reported, but odds are no law enforcement would happen upon you out there.  That sounds like someone's pre-prepared argument in the unlikely event you'd happen upon someone who didn't like what you're doing.

I have only seen any type of government agency out once.  I was 12 miles up a wash in Yavapai county and the Maricopa Search and rescue team was doing an exercise.  Drove right by me.

I would absolutely be delighted and love to have an operation involving motorized equipment, but I would be sure I was properly permitted, and would probably pay someone to help me through the process, at least the first time.  I'm sure I could figure it out myself, but at best it would be days for a small op, and at worst, years.  Days and years are lost production.

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My friend with the pull behind digger stays on his claim 2 months out of the year and the forest circus and BLM give him more problems for camping too long than they do for his digger. I was there for one of the encounters and they told him that since it didnt drive and move under its own power, that he was ok to use it. The bucket is the size of maybe 3 regular shovels, so not too much production there.

As for the rototiller, there are guys that i have seen up in Majuba and Rye patch area that use them. They said they were told it wasnt a big deal. I wasnt there to confirm that though. But the little pull behind digger i was.

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9 hours ago, nugget108 said:

My friend with the pull behind digger stays on his claim 2 months out of the year and the forest circus and BLM give him more problems for camping too long than they do for his digger. I was there for one of the encounters and they told him that since it didnt drive and move under its own power, that he was ok to use it. The bucket is the size of maybe 3 regular shovels, so not too much production there.

As for the rototiller, there are guys that i have seen up in Majuba and Rye patch area that use them. They said they were told it wasnt a big deal. I wasnt there to confirm that though. But the little pull behind digger i was.

I'm happy to be wrong.

I still have trouble picturing what this digger is.  Right now I'm picturing a mini-backhoe, like a grasshopper that someone is cranking pulleys and levers for. Are you talking something like this:

 

14_5+ftp+b+s+towable+backhoe_r.jpg

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2 minutes ago, chrisski said:

I'm happy to be wrong.

I still have trouble picturing what this digger is.  Right now I'm picturing a mini-backhoe, like a grasshopper that someone is cranking pulleys and levers for. Are you talking something like this:

 

14_5+ftp+b+s+towable+backhoe_r.jpg

That is almost exactly what he uses. Just a different brand.

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12 minutes ago, nugget108 said:

That is almost exactly what he uses. Just a different brand.

By the time the GPZ 15000 comes out, everyone is going to need one of these to dig their targets.

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I think I will stop in at the BLM and ask...watch them go "duh" , not sure.

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Still think having a personal digger and pay him/her digger a commission on the finds....Seen nugget hunters in Africa do that. Or a flat fee of 10 bucks a day....:thumbsupanim....imagine just flagging targets as you go along and have 1-2 people digging...and pocketing your gold!! :grr01::th:

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Well I'm shocked it would work without a permit.  I can see digging dirt into a small hopper and that feeding a conveyor to a 151.  The whole operation could be done with a pick up, a quad, and a trailer.  I wonder if that grasshopper could dig up the hardpack gravel by here.  Even if it just loosens it beats a pick.

Opens up a whole lot of possibilities.

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7 hours ago, azdigger said:

I think I will stop in at the BLM and ask...watch them go "duh" , not sure.

I wouldn't do that, you're just inviting them to come up with a reason that you can't do something that you can do anyway without asking!

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Makes sense to me Skip .

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On 10/24/2017 at 7:33 PM, chrisski said:

I really don't think that'd be legal without a permit.  Something about motorized digging.  You could probably get a permit.  Just pricey.

My question back to you would be how would the tiller work in hard pack dirt with some 6" rocks?  My dad used it in the garden and I don't remember it being too good with the rocks.  I never took up gardening.  Haven't seen a wash around the area that is not packed with rocks like that.  I don't see a lot of boulders, just a lot of sharp cobbles between 2" and 6".

As far as legal, I doubt there'd be someone to ticket you.

Those rocks would beat a tiller and you to death but then using chisel shanks on ATV would work great providing that 10hp rule worked

 

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10 HP rule?

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I thought that I had read that a piece of gear could be used but not over 5hp.....that is why I asked my question.

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