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ArcticDave

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9 hours ago, ArcticDave said:

 I have seen it done once. A boat shop I visited, was fabricating a panel for a commercial fishing boat. Pretty cool process with amazing results...if you do it right. The panel came out of the bag very smooth and very little sanding was needed before they applied a surface coat. 

Your right on Dave, that's the way I do it too. when I first started out I had my fair share of failures.
fortunately the parts I was making were small and so were the losses when things didn't always go according to plan.typical epoxy resins don't wait for anyone.but on a large scale critical project like yours it wouldn't exactly be the way I'd like to start out in carbon fiber fabrication.but if you just need tubing or sheet its much easier to just buy it.
I should also say its hard on drill bits and saw blades too,unless you have good quality carbide or diamond tools. it even has
has a drill bit squeeeeal that will make your skin crawl if you don't drill it wet with cutting fluid or oil. not to mention I think the dust is rated right up there
asbestos as far as breathing it.
I've seen racing engine blocks made from it.so its uses as far as structural strength are pretty much endless. its biggest downfall is fire but Ive heard their
working on new flame resistant high temp polymers with a kevlar blend in the cloth but I don't imagine they are going to be inexpensive.
I use kevlar cord and cloth in my rockets for the same hi-temp.flame resistant reasons. so it may also be of some use to you in your airplane.
AzNuggetBob

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Never gave that any thoughts but I didn't think  Carbon would  burn . 

 

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Coal is carbon. Anthracite Coal is more than 87% carbon. Gasoline is about 86% carbon. Carbon likes oxygen quickly.

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Newer carbon fiber is pre cooked in a micro wave oven to cut down on the flammability. basically they are preburning off the largest portion (about 50% by volume)of the part of the carbon that causes it to burn.
but the problem just like the older carbon fiber is the resin binder. you could say it acts like a wick to get the ball rolling as far as burning. the most common binders most people use for carbon fiber cloth are simple polymer epoxy resins and are very flammable. so if the carbon fiber was not precooked (the newer stuff is precooked longer)you would have a torch when lit.

AzNuggetBob

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Btw you dont want to use carbon fiber in conjunction with older VLF metal detectors as it will dumb them down (as a filter)to a certain extent.

Not trying to hijack your thread Dave, this type info just pops into my head by association.

AzNuggetBob

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4 hours ago, AzNuggetBob said:

Btw you dont want to use carbon fiber in conjunction with older VLF metal detectors as it will dumb them down (as a filter)to a certain extent.

Not trying to hijack your thread Dave, this type info just pops into my head by association.

AzNuggetBob

Hijack away Bob :)

What about this stuff? CF/aramid weave. Looks like neat stuff if you don't want to paint it afterwards. More expensive than straight CF though.

https://compositeenvisions.com/composite-reinforcement-fabrics-2/carbon-fiber-aramid-hybrids-100/

 

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That stuff sounds interesting, eaa? 

If you want to putz with some CF and not go too broke the Chines have some.  https://www.banggood.com/3K-200gsm-6090180270cm-Twill-Weaving-Carbon-Fiber-Cloth-Fabric-p-1107386.html?rmmds=search&ID=41529&cur_warehouse=CN

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Posted (edited)

A fellow can spend a ton of money down that rabbit hole. It is equally fascinating how much you can make with the stuff. There are guys building high speed cf aircraft in their garages! You do need some special tooling, but in the overall scheme of such things, a fellow could build a variety of composite products with minimal equipment. 

I found something at home depot today. Komatex. Dirt cheap! Like $8.50 for a 2'×3' sheet cheap!! Matte black (anti glare) It's a pvc closed cell foam board with hard pvc sides about 1/8" thick. It is very rigid, but it does let me form the arch I need easily. I clamped the sheet in an arched shape and it was very rigid. I left it clamped in the direct sun for a while to see if it would sag or soften too much. It did soften a little, but retained it's strengh, requiring a healthy effort to deform when pushed on.

Edited by ArcticDave
crappy grammer

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Posted (edited)

Had to look that one up.   Interesting.   How light is the stuff ?   Sounds a bit like coroplast sheets..  You can do crazy stuff with that too.  Seen a pull behind Bicycle Trailer you could sleep in made with it that only weighed like 3olbs. minus the wheels and axial.

 

Emmm UV issues.  http://www.kommerlingusa.com/komatex/technical.cfml

Edited by homefire
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6 hours ago, homefire said:

Had to look that one up.   Interesting.   How light is the stuff ?   Sounds a bit like coroplast sheets..  You can do crazy stuff with that too.  Seen a pull behind Bicycle Trailer you could sleep in made with it that only weighed like 3olbs. minus the wheels and axial.

 

Emmm UV issues.  http://www.kommerlingusa.com/komatex/technical.cfml

It's relatively light, maybe not as light as CF, but it will do.

I read that too about uv. Most of that stuff is used in sign making, so it sits in direct sun all day. The little plane never will. If it is not flying then it will be covered. The manufacturer claims it is paintable, so I can always paint it to match the rest of the plane. A good paint layer solve that issue. :)

 

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Posted (edited)

I dont know Dave, Komatex (not familiar with it.)doesn't sound like something Id want use in in my airplane if it softened in the sun at all.

 Almost anything is paint able or color coatable if you use the proper primer,prep or coating. also there are many UV blockers that can be added to most paints and even powder coatings.

AzNuggetBob

Edited by AzNuggetBob
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Posted (edited)

PVC is workable at about 200 degrees. A hot air gun will do a  great job for small areas. If you want to form a large piece I suggest putting it in an oven at about 200 and use the heat gun to shape the areas that are not quite pliable enough yet. 

PVC is thermoplastic. It will get softer in the hot sun and fail in a catastrophe. IMHO I would definitely use something else.

Edited by Bedrock Bob
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I'm still fiddling with it. I may not use it in the end, but the way I'm mounting it, will be the same as using aluminum sheet. I can at least utilize it as a pattern board if it seems weak. The piece has no structural function beyond diverting air flow, but I wouldn't want it to fly off while airborn either :yikes:

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I think I have the dash cover figured out finally! The screws are temporary and will be replaced with aluminum rivets on final assembly. The smooth top surface will mate easily with the windshield and will provide shade over the instruments...not to mention deflecting some of the propeller blast.

Like you guys I was concerned about the integrity of the foam board,  but after fastening it down, I am impressed at its strength. There is no possible way this little craft will fly fast enough to deform that panel. I believe it will function adequately provided I paint it.

20180905_074210.jpg

20180905_074232.jpg

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WoW ! Dave that looks pretty Slick.  Loose those little puckers up on the front leading Edge be Skippy with it.  That looks cool !

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After letting it sit all day in the sun, I'm much less satisfied with it. While it never goes soft enough to present a structural issue...it does develop a little wave from the compound bend. I want the fit and finish to be top notch, and a wrinkled dash panel ain't gonna cut it. :arrowheadsmiley:

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3 hours ago, homefire said:

That's what I was thinking too. I know a fellow named Tom that may have a scrap piece large enough :inocent:

At least I can use this plastic as a pattern and the mounting tabs are already welded on to fit it. :)

 

 

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Yep.  Aluminum  would be my choice if it was my toy..  T-6 would even give the front end a bit more Strength.   You may want to put a layer of something like Rubber at the mount points.  It may Sing some with the Engine vibrations, eaa?  Looks like it would direct the Waves right at your Head !  LOL 

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ArcticDave, I hope you don't mind, but when I saw this I immediately thought of you.

 

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That Aircraft has my vote for being the  best prop air craft ever created by this country. 

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Wow! Wouldn't that be something to brag about?

"What did you do today? "

"Oh not much...just flew the Mustang on a short flight to get a hamburger. It only cost me $1500.00 in fuel." :droolin:

It would be awesome to ride in one and listen to that big Merlin sing!

I agree Homey, the Mustang was a great craft for it's day. I'm partial to the F4 Corsair, but only because I got to climb all over one that my Dad was helping restore. He still has a picture hanging on the wall of himself next to that plane.

The P40 Warhawk was another one I got to see up close. I love those piston powered fighters...way frickin cool :thumbsupanim

 

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The P51 is my alltime favorite prop fighter, I had many good times getting dizzy flying my string controlled P51 when I was a kid, and I had many plastic models I put together and painted.

My other favorite fighter was the Sabre Jet, it was just so modern and wicked looking after nothing but prop fighters!!

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I loved flying my RC corsair, was a lot of fun , also enjoyed a T28 too.

Aw heck, I just love to fly any of my RC planes.....got a few.

have not had the chance to b around many of the full sized planes of any kind.

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6 minutes ago, azdigger said:

I loved flying my RC corsair, was a lot of fun , also enjoyed a T28 too.

Aw heck, I just love to fly any of my RC planes.....got a few.

have not had the chance to b around many of the full sized planes of any kind.

Check out a local air show Rick. If Kingman doesn't have one, I'm sure Vegas does. The bigger shows will have so many different aircraft it will blow your mind. Usually there is some old WW2 stuff on hand to drool over! :)

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