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ArcticDave

ArcticDave's Legal Eagle XL

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Will it be sensitive to the wet weather when it is finished? 

 

Check out Pentacryl Wood Stabilizer. This stuff is just glorified polyethelene glycol I think. But it works dandy. It puts the wood in stasis. It might save a bunch of headaches if the plane ever got in a soggy situation. It is made for drying green wood without checking but it works on dry wood too. It is about $60 a gallon on the internet.

If one of those ribs tweaked after you get the skin on it would wrinkle a bit, no? It seems like some sort of wood stabilizer would be good. Pentacryl completely evaporates so I don't think it adds weight. Minwax has a "Wood Hardener" that is basically thin polystyrene. It really seals wood up tight but it might add a little weight...not much. Either would keep it from moving much at all if the plane sat in a hot, humid environment for a season.

 

 

 

Edited by Bedrock Bob

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1 hour ago, Bedrock Bob said:

Will it be sensitive to the wet weather when it is finished? 

It shouldn't be. I wouldn't want to leave it out in the rain for months, but the wood will be sealed after it is built. I can't seal it until all the glue ups are done. The covering is waterproof too, so that will add to the protection. I would rather it be nice and dry when I seal it. I bet this humidity has increased the overall weight of the wood by a substantial amount. 

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And allow the air to get to all sides.

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Yep, get it nice and dry and then seal it. Every ounce of weight matters. I'm currently pulling all the staples out of the ribs, to save 8 oz. Probably at least 10 hours of work to save half a pound.  :00000067:

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5 minutes ago, ArcticDave said:

Yep, get it nice and dry and then seal it. Every ounce of weight matters. I'm currently pulling all the staples out of the ribs, to save 8 oz. Probably at least 10 hours of work to save half a pound.  :00000067:

Heck when you get this plane finished you can lose a lot more weight than 8 ounces simply by stopping drinking beer! :inocent:

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23 minutes ago, Au Seeker said:

Heck when you get this plane finished you can lose a lot more weight than 8 ounces simply by stopping drinking beer! :inocent:

I'm not sure I want to fly that bad Skip...:2drink: :25r30wi:

I'm just trying my best to make this bird as light as it can be. A little bit here, a little bit there, adds up.

A good trip to the bathroom before a flight would cut some weight too. :200:

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10 minutes ago, ArcticDave said:

I'm not sure I want to fly that bad Skip...:2drink: :25r30wi:

I'm just trying my best to make this bird as light as it can be. A little bit here, a little bit there, adds up.

A good trip to the bathroom before a flight would cut some weight too. :200:

You could always cut a bunch of weight by getting rid of the half VW and put some pedals on it. :idunno: :89:

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2 hours ago, Au Seeker said:

Heck when you get this plane finished you can lose a lot more weight than 8 ounces simply by stopping drinking beer! :inocent:

Unfortunately they would  be weighing the Plan and Not Dave.  LOL   FAA couldn't give a hoot about Dave's Pants Size. 

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Fill the wings with helium. :) AzNuggetBob

Edited by AzNuggetBob
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Dave I think it would help in a smaller ultralight aircraft such as yours. considering your not carrying a lot of fuel or storing it in the wings like many airplanes.
It would also make the plane an ultimate high wing as far as stability. I have to wonder about performance?  I think it could be done with an impermeable lightweight bladder or bladders in the wings.
It would be funny to have to ty down your plane or have your plane float up off the floor of the hanger. now that's a plane that wants to fly. :thumbsupanim just depends on the size of the wing.
AzNuggetbob

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2 hours ago, AzNuggetBob said:

Fill the wings with helium. :) AzNuggetBob

Interesting idea.  I just calculated it out for a large and blocky rectangular and untapered "wing" measuring 32'x6'x12".  At 0.069 lbs. of lift (or float) per cubic foot of helium, a volume of 192 cubic feet filled with helium gas would essentially make the aircraft 13.248 pounds lighter than without the gas.  I'm almost certain that Dave's wings will have much smaller volume than 192 cubic feet.  The lift would lessen with altitude as the air became less dense, and would vary with changes in atmospheric pressure, and would also vary considerably with changes in humidity, as increasing water vapor increases the weight of the air in which the helium is floating.  It might be wise to carry a few six packs as ballast.

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I'm surprised the added lift is that much Saul!

Still a heck of a lot cheaper to go on a diet.

Homefire, no worries about FAA weighing anything out here.

 

This is Frank Knapp's Lil Cub.

The helium fill port was a joke he painted on the side. :laught16:

 

stol-007.jpg

Edited by ArcticDave
added stuff
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2 hours ago, AzNuggetBob said:

 just depends on the size of the wing.
AzNuggetbob

  I was kidding Dave. :D AzNuggetBob

Edited by AzNuggetBob
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I know Bob :)

 

Well my plywood dash cracked on me this morning while attempting to put a bend in it. It had been soaking in a tub of water for almost 24 hours too! :grr01:

I'm thinking of carving out the shape I want in pink foam next. Lay up 2-3 layers of fiberglass on it, and remove the foam leaving a fiberglass shell for the instrument pod.

 

20180821_061554.jpg

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Do a "drop" with resin impregnated fabric. Let your resin impregnated material hang between the frames to get the curve. Just clamp it around the edges and work it with your hands. Use nylon cordura fabric impregnated with epoxy resin. After it is cured put a layer of polyester and another coat of resin. Trim it. Then do a fancy resin finish over it. You can do amazing patterns and colors. And even carbon fiber pattern to a tee. You can make it look like stone, put veins in it, do landscapes or photos....  just about any look you want. 

I have been working with Alumilite resin for a few months now. Google it and check out their products. I did a set of door panels for an old hot rod with heavy nylon fabric and the slow resin. I am going to make a top for my Land Cruiser next. My only worries would be cracking after a lot of vibration but it would be easy to fix. It is basically a poor man's carbon fiber.

Fabric and epoxy is way better than wood. It might be a bit heavier but only  by a six pack a week. :)

Edited by Bedrock Bob
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There is a diagonal there so I can't droop it for the curve. I'll have to carve a form for it.

I like the fabric/epoxy idea! That would be ideal. I can form compound curves that I couldn't do with the plywood. It would be a thinner layup too vs a traditional glass job. :thumbsupanim

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Wow, that alumilite site has cool stuff!

It's probably a good thing I have never won the lottery. I would have a shop full of crap...and I would never leave! :arrowheadsmiley:

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31 minutes ago, ArcticDave said:

Wow, that alumilite site has cool stuff!

It's probably a good thing I have never won the lottery. I would have a shop full of crap...and I would never leave! :arrowheadsmiley:

There is a huge business making forms and designs for prosthetic limbs with this stuff. You can take a pre-cast "thigh" and "calf" and do a scene under a 1/4" of resin. All it takes is some basic skills and a bucket of this stuff. It pays big bucks.

Knife scales too! You can stabilize almost anything from hemp rope to coffee beans and cast them in this stuff and then carve them. You can make it look just like ivory, bone, turquoise, labradorite or anything else you want. You can make a corn cob into the prettiest set of durable knife scales you have ever seen. Or pine cones. Or acacia beans..even stones! 

This stuff is the future my friend! A skilled craftsman can make all kinds of things that used to be really complex or require expensive technology. 

I am setting up a vacuum stabilizer to impregnate materials with heat activated resin. It works dandy on burls, spalted wood and other mediums. It makes solid, carveable plastic out of almost anything. And it completely eliminates weak spots in the grain, knots, etc. It still looks like beautiful figured wood but acts like a solid piece of homogenous resin material. And you can fill any voids with colored resin to get about any effect you want.

I will have the process up and running by the New Year and will be making all sorts of cool stuff.

Edited by Bedrock Bob
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On 8/21/2018 at 6:26 AM, ArcticDave said:

I know Bob :)

 

Well my plywood dash cracked on me this morning while attempting to put a bend in it. It had been soaking in a tub of water for almost 24 hours too! :grr01:

I'm thinking of carving out the shape I want in pink foam next. Lay up 2-3 layers of fiberglass on it, and remove the foam leaving a fiberglass shell for the instrument pod.

 

20180821_061554.jpg

Dave you may want to get a small thin sheet of G-10 or carbon fiber for your dash. I use it all the time in rocket builds.
Very sturdy and light weight. you can cut to shape with a jig saw and drill the holes for your gauges with a hole saw blade in a drill.
AzNuggetBob

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12 hours ago, AzNuggetBob said:

Dave you may want to get a small thin sheet of G-10 or carbon fiber for your dash. I use it all the time in rocket builds.
Very sturdy and light weight. you can cut to shape with a jig saw and drill the holes for your gauges with a hole saw blade in a drill.
AzNuggetBob

I will look at the g10. I'd never heard of it before. I crunched some numbers on the cost of doing a hand layup over a foam mold...and it is more than I want/can afford to spend right now.

It may be simpler to just use a sheet of aluminum that is just thick enough to withstand the wind buffeting. I know someone that may have a scrap piece big enough.

Still looking and thinking for now, but I need to nail it down, so I can weld on the attachment tabs. That's the only thing keeping me from prepping and painting the fuselage right now.

 

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LOL, That Beer Can Crinkle Look has Character.  Easy to Refinish too !

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ya carbon fiber is all the rage these days too from crotch rockets and cars to rockets that really fly.I was using it to make custom detector arm shafts too.
I did carbon fiber cloth lay ups but it takes a lot of specialty tools like vacuum pumps to really keep it light weight or you'll end up with a flying resin log. :D
AzNuggetBob

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1 hour ago, homefire said:

LOL, That Beer Can Crinkle Look has Character.  Easy to Refinish too !

Great (or is that cheap?) minds think alike! I have some 3/4"x 1/4" lathes I cut while ripping the wing wood. I've got the idea to use them as a frame to hang some thin aluminum on. If it works, I will be happy camper. I'll build it as a complete module so it is easy to detach in case something behind the panel needs replacing. 

 

37 minutes ago, AzNuggetBob said:

ya carbon fiber is all the rage these days too from crotch rockets and cars to rockets that really fly.I was using it to make custom detector arm shafts too.
I did carbon fiber cloth lay ups but it takes a lot of specialty tools like vacuum pumps to really keep it light weight or you'll end up with a flying resin log. :D
AzNuggetBob

Besides the cost, that was my main concern Bob. Resin is heavy and being inexperienced with cf layup, I can easily see myself making something far heavier than it needs to be.

I do own a commercial vacuum pump that I bought several years ago for air conditioning work.

I've heard cf can be tricky because you can't see it wet out like glass cloth and you can end up with voids if you don't vacuum it real well.  

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Maybe I miss understood you, but just so nobody gets the wrong idea. You dont vacuum it directly. you bag it and then vacuum the bag. The suction with the bag over it squeezes all the excess epoxy and bubbles out and helps press it into what ever mold your using. you have to have an exit for the excess epoxy. AzNuggetBob

Edited by AzNuggetBob
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7 hours ago, AzNuggetBob said:

Maybe I miss understood you, but just so nobody gets the wrong idea. You dont vacuum it directly. you bag it and then vacuum the bag. The suction with the bag over it squeezes all the excess epoxy and bubbles out and helps press it into what ever mold your using. you have to have an exit for the excess epoxy. AzNuggetBob

 I have seen it done once. A boat shop I visited, was fabricating a panel for a commercial fishing boat. Pretty cool process with amazing results...if you do it right. The panel came out of the bag very smooth and very little sanding was needed before they applied a surface coat. 

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