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Whats up with that "Claim"?


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I’ve been hard at it researching claim status on some land I really want to check out. I’ve found gold in the surrounding areas of the “Claims” and have never checked the status on these because I thought the ground was all claimed up. Reason being is a fellow nugget shooter sent me a picture from one of his mining claim programs showing the whole area gridded out with claims bumper to bumper everywhere across three sections of this particular mountain range in the Bradshaw’s.

So last night I decided to check the actual claim filings with the Yavapai County Assessors and then ran those through LR2000. Low and behold much of the area is actually open!

Here is what I found and why guys shouldn’t be dependent on these programs. I have a feeling many of us are passing up great ground we thought was claimed up.

Some of the claims shown on this program were actually temporary flings that had not even been sent into the BLM. I found dozens of Lode claims that were filed with the county assessor by the same person or company that did not have a BLM stamp on them, when I search the name of the claim on LR2000 nothing comes up. I was only able to find three of them filed with the BLM, two were in the same name as the assessor filing and one had gone through a transfer of ownership from the original filing. So, Whats up with that!? I’m guessing people are just doing all these filings with the assessor to get temp status so they can sell the claims if they get a buyer and then do the actual BLM filing?

The main thing I found out was that the claims shown on the program were nowhere near the same size or shape as the actual filing which opened up a ton of ground compared to what the program showed. One of the claims had been refilled a couple years ago and was 50% smaller! Others had been closed all together for a couple to many years.

Another great thing about digging through the assessor filings for a certain section was I found closed placer mining claims from the early 90’s and 80’s. Most of these were in more remote areas where the jeep trails had been washed out and people couldn’t just drive right up to the claim anymore. Most likely there is gold there and would be great areas to prospect.

So one night of in depth research scored me miles of new washes in known gold country to explore that me and probably many others thought to claimed up. Some of the ground had never even been claimed! Ever!

Don’t be lazy researchers guys…It pays not to be.

Good luck out there!

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Nice work there, it pays to do your homework i guess. Thanks for sharing , i used to live in Cottonwood six years ago when i first started digging. I think your on the right track and wish i was back down there too!

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BLM Lr2000 is highly inaccurate. Last year both the FS/BLM claimed that my claims were not there, so no notifications were sent that they were stealing my mineral rights through "segregation". Claims staked in 1992,annual labors done, taxes paid and zippo. Your local county recorders, where all claims begin and end, is always your best bet for accuracy has been my experience in 50+ years of mining. John

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I have family and friends in the lovely Verde Valley, it would be great to meet you next time i am down south. Happy hunting!

Chris aka hermit

Let me know Chris.

BLM Lr2000 is highly inaccurate. Last year both the FS/BLM claimed that my claims were not there, so no notifications were sent that they were stealing my mineral rights through "segregation". Claims staked in 1992,annual labors done, taxes paid and zippo. Your local county recorders, where all claims begin and end, is always your best bet for accuracy has been my experience in 50+ years of mining. John

John, would you trust an assessor filing with no BLM AMC# or BLM stamp? As far as I know that is not the way to file. Shouldn't it go to the BLM first then to the Assessor for recording. The claims in question for me were filed 2-3 years ago, there is no intent to hold or affidavit of labor filed with the assessor for these claims after the Mining Location Notice was filed. To me that is someone trying to grab up land to try and sell the mineral rights, they also leave the stakes out in the field as if it is claimed, the stakes have no name or identification. I think its B.S. personally.

I'm gonna call the BLM today and see if they can find theses claims by name.

I will agree that LR2000 can be tricky, sometimes if you have to many results they all will not show up. If I try to search active,closed,pending and void at the same time I don't get the same results as searching each one individually.

But then its funny, sometimes when I call the BLM to get answers the guy is usually kind of grumpy and ask's if I used LR2000, when I say I just want to be sure he gets huffy and says thats all that they use. Poor BLM office guys have to work sometimes... :cry2:

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What was the name of the other much more accurate dbase they shut down or

de-funded three or so years back..? I'm embarassed I no longer remember its name..

SA

EDIT: Geo Communicator maybe..?

Edited by Swampstomper Al
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Is it really a claim if they are to lazy to go out and mark it? :)
Tom

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Good on ya dirty! That's a good start on your research. Just about everywhere we research we find open land. When we first released the Rich Hill FootPrint there were 11 claims made right on the Hill in the first month. That's after all the experts told us "it's all claimed up".

We expect another 800 - 1500 acres will be opening up within a couple of miles radius of Stanton again this year. It's really rare to see any area that doesn't have some open ground.

As far as that BLM stamp... It doesn't make a bit of difference legally whether the Locator records at the county or files with the BLM first. For FootPrints we won't even map a claim unless both the County Recording and the BLM filing have been made. Both are required by law but the Locators have 90 days to do that in Arizona.

Claims are made on the ground. The County Recording and BLM filing are evidence of a claim but they are not proof of a valid claim in itself. If there is a dispute over occupied or claimed ground only the courts can settle that dispute. The County and the BLM won't be there to help you out.

Keep doing your research, you will find some great spots to prospect in some surprising places. Just do your due diligence before you put boots on the ground.

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Is it really a claim if they are to lazy to go out and mark it? :)

Tom

We all know the answer to that, but I know what you mean..

But that also isn't what AD said.. He said: "...there is no intent to hold or affidavit of labor filed with the assessor for these claims after the Mining Location Notice was filed. To me that is someone trying to grab up land to try and sell the mineral rights, they also leave the stakes out in the field as if it is claimed, the stakes have no name or identification..."

And I believe clay just answered that in his above post..

Swamp

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What was the name of the other much more accurate dbase they shut down or

de-funded three or so years back..? I'm embarassed I no longer remember its name..

SA

EDIT: Geo Communicator maybe..?

The geocommunicator is a map. It still exists today. It is not a database.

Before the mining claims were removed from the geocommunicator map they relied entirely on the LR2000, which is a database. Same database as today. The map was never any more accurate than the LR2000.

The BLM only locates claims to the nearest quarter section. Maps based on the BLM database are only accurate to the quarter section and that is only true if they entered the data correctly and the claim was only located in one quarter section.

A claim located on a section corner will show up in 4 different quarter sections and in 4 different sections. A 20 acre claim in that situation would be located to a full 640 acres by the BLM method.

That's why a smart guy like alwaysdirty can find open ground where the BLM based maps show none. It's still out there but you have to do the research. :brows:

Edited by clay
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About marking a claim--I've found most 40 acre corners already have claim makers on the corner. Sometimes they even have four markers for the four corners of each claim for the quadrant.

Do you add another claim marker if they are already there?

I do, with the few I've stakes. It gets old though carting four claim markers around and walking to each corner and digging a whole to put a marker in.

Also as far as not marking it, that would be hard to prove. Many claim markers disappear or get moved. Doesn't have to be a person. I imagine game or cows knock them over and around. It would take a month of prospecting time to go to each corner of a my claim or one I help with once a year to verify the corners are there. We all know its impossible to maintain 200 claims in a Section / Township, but that will never get challenged. Most of these guys at least put one set of papers out on a claim, and many times someone will borrow those papers and forget to return them.

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BLM rules, and Calif. State also, specify County Recorders office first-then file ORIGNIAL WITH FILLINS ONLY IN BLUE INK,with the BLM for your recordation number. same same with anal labor, blm.gov will agree with all the regs. in 1 place. Son accidently sent in a copy of anal labor in black and sure enough back it came 2 years ago for said reason.-John

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BLM rules, and Calif. State also, specify County Recorders office first-then file ORIGNIAL WITH FILLINS ONLY IN BLUE INK,with the BLM for your recordation number. same same with anal labor, blm.gov will agree with all the regs. in 1 place. Son accidently sent in a copy of anal labor in black and sure enough back it came 2 years ago for said reason.-John

I ain't messing with no anal labor...

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BLM (a federal governmental entity) to the extent they stay within the four corners of the law is the primary arbiter of how, when and where mining claims are filed (when they act outside of their authority the federal judicial system, of course, has the last say). The states (through their County Recorder and Assessor Offices), however, have the power to record legal notices, deeds, transfers of title, chain of title and property taxes, etc. You don't want to screw up with either one. In a snit over claim boundaries on the ground or similar disputes between individuals BLM generally will defer to a final judgment issued by state court (a quiet title determination, a mineral trespass judgment, injunctive relief -- those sorts of "way too expensive for the typical small scale miner" remedies that come into play when individuals can't work things out between themselves.

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I wonder how many small miners in AZ go to court over their claims? I agree legal action for me would be "way too expensive for the typical small scale miner."

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Good post, AlwaysDirty. I really need to get off my butt and explore the County Assessor's Office, if anything just so I can be better familiar with the claim filing process. It is intimidating but I believe necessary to move on to more lucrative ground. Thanks for the kick in the butt! :thumbsupanim

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Hey Andyy,

If your researching Yavapai county everything you need is on the assessors website. If your anywhere else I have no idea what is available online. First you should get familiar with mapping, figure out the Section number, Township and Range of an area you want to hunt. Go down to the assessors if you cant do it online and ask them for the "Notice of Mining Location" for the claims in that Section,Township,Range you have chosen. The location notices will have the claim drawn on a section map so you can get them all together, then call the BLM or use LR2000 to check the status of the claims to then create your own map of valid claims in that section and be amazed at what land is open! I personally have never gone to the assessors to do that so I am not sure how it works at the actual office, maybe someone else will chime in on the correct procedure for that visit.

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You won't find any location notices at the assessors office. Claims are recorded at the County Recorder's office. Minor detail until you end up on the wrong side of town talking to some assessors who are looking at you like you're crazy. :arrowheadsmiley:

(Washington State is the exception to that rule)

You can get the BLM LR2000 information and a link to the online County Recorder's records by using the Land Matters Mining Claims Maps.

Just select the State you want from the list on the right.

  • When the map window opens select "County Recorders" from the layers list to the right of the map.
  • Draw a zoombox to get to the area you are interested in.
  • Click on the tool then click on the map in your area of interest.

The window that pops up will have:

  • The list of BLM ACTIVE status claims in that Section.
  • A link to the serial register page for each claim.
  • A link to the County Recorder records.

The BLM claims layer is updated twice a month and the Serial Register report on the claims is real time.

The County records can be located by Township Range and Section or by the book and page number that sometimes is found in the Claims Layer information line.

Most Counties in Arizona have online access to download Location Recordings. Other States not so much. Just follow the links in the Map's information window to find out about the County your area of interest is in.

If you haven't obtained the claims location maps before you put boots on the ground you haven't met your legal obligation to perform your own due diligence before entering or prospecting the land.

We try to make it as simple as possible at mylandmatters.org. The rest is up to you. :D

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