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Rich Hill access issues


TWHaz

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FYI

As far as I can tell all Truck/Jeep access to RR "Catclaw" and Weaver "Forgetmenot" and other claims in that valley are blocked off at the Patented land. This includes Weaver Creek road to the Cemetery. Only a Quad trail from the Southwest by the Dynamite shack offers access. Is this Normal? If so i will just hike in.

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It's illegal to block a road which provides access to public lands, whether patented or not, as long as that road appears on the U.S. Geological survey maps, but I can't remember the date the maps have to be. But that roads qualifies I am pretty sure.

What are the rights of the public to cross private lands to access public land? The public may cross private lands to access public lands when a public road or right-of-way (easement) for public access exists across the private lands. In all other circumstances, the public must first obtain permission from the landowner to cross private lands. The landowner is not obligated to grant such permission.

We had access to Gold Basin via an old road that was owned by a gravel company. They got the bright idea to put a locked gate up.

I went to them and explained the law and told them that if the Bureau of Land Management found out the least they would do is cut the lock and tear down the gates. The worst would be to fine them.

The gates were gone the next week.

Doc

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That's Mark and the Red Mountain crew.

The road was dedicated as public by the town of Weaver in 1898 or so to provide access to the post office and the cemetery. In Arizona the 10 year public use doesn't make it a public way like it does in most states. It is a public road under Federal law. After the town of Weaver dedicated the road (it was the main street of town) it became a public road by State law too.

The patent there wasn't issued until 1924 and the road is marked out on the patent surveys. Mark had another survey done last year so he could sell 5 acres to Red Mountain for their processing plant that is dumping their tailings onto the BLM managed land. That new survey shows the road too. The owner knows the status of the road is public but doesn't seem to care.

The County has it listed as an unmaintained County road. As the old timers know it was maintained by the County up until 1998 or so.

If Mark or Red Mountain want to fence people off their property they have that right. By law they would have to run their fence along the road and leave the road open. They don't have any right to put a gate on a public road.

There was a blowup earlier this summer when some of the private property owners were kept out of their land. That was worked out but that didn't solve anything for all the other folks who have a right to travel the public roads.

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super glue in the tumblers will make them tired of replacing the lock :)

That road should not be locked off.
Tom H.

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That's Mark and the Red Mountain crew.

The road was dedicated as public by the town of Weaver in 1898 or so to provide access to the post office and the cemetery. In Arizona the 10 year public use doesn't make it a public way like it does in most states. It is a public road under Federal law. After the town of Weaver dedicated the road (it was the main street of town) it became a public road by State law too.

The patent there wasn't issued until 1924 and the road is marked out on the patent surveys. Mark had another survey done last year so he could sell 5 acres to Red Mountain for their processing plant that is dumping their tailings onto the BLM managed land. That new survey shows the road too. The owner knows the status of the road is public but doesn't seem to care.

The County has it listed as an unmaintained County road. As the old timers know it was maintained by the County up until 1998 or so.

If Mark or Red Mountain want to fence people off their property they have that right. By law they would have to run their fence along the road and leave the road open. They don't have any right to put a gate on a public road.

There was a blowup earlier this summer when some of the private property owners were kept out of their land. That was worked out but that didn't solve anything for all the other folks who have a right to travel the public roads.

I was told by a person that they allow the landowners through ( How thoughtful ) but anybody with a membership to a claim is met at gun point...Mind you this is hearsay. My temper is to short to go check out the gun point part.

Has anyone contacted the Sheriffs office ?

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I just use my master key for entrance...aka HUGE bolt cutters and add my lock to the chain. Just another way to eliminate a problem-John :yesss:

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I just use my master key for entrance...aka HUGE bolt cutters and add my lock to the chain. Just another way to eliminate a problem-John :yesss:

I cut more then a few locks off BLM Gates. Some Ranchers here have the Idea there Grazing Lease allows full Control of the Land.

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I too have had trouble with soon before they put a lock on the gate. I had one guy telling my I was going to jail for going beyond the gate. He had a gun on him bigger than be was. Lucky for him he didn't pull it out and point it at me. He backed off when I told him I'd when to see his boss. I didn't know Ben had moved to Colorado until talking to the guy at Ben's house.

Chuck Anders.

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Is Gary still the caretaker of Ben's property?

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Uncle Ron

I don't remember his name but he was not a big guy. I was not on Ben's land and I was on a public land and road when he starts telling me where I was going. Here I was thinking I left my wife at home but he was short like my X-wife. Had I been on pvt. land I could understand but that was not the case.

Chuck Anders

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Gary is still up by Ben's house Ron. Dan is below at the Octave.

Ben hasn't been around in quite a while. Adam does stop by a few times a year.

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Has anyone been back to the claims through the dynamite shack road? Heard it's rough but you can get through on an ATV.

I did not go up there (to Hot). Next trip, I will hike it and post it's condition. It looks rough from the main road. I will contact the County and see what recourse we have.If anyone has contact info of the patented land owners please post it. I would contact them to work out a solution. They may have had vandalism. I have had issues with Ranchers blaming everyone for the sins of a few. With this economy it has been an issue with our construction equipment.

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TWHaz

You can get there by going on the shack rd. but not easy. It's down in a hole and you need to get up on top. This is the only way you can get to Road Runner and Weaver claims. You will see how they pushed up dirt so you can't go over to Weaver rd.. Just watch it coming out being your're standing on your head when going back down to the shack rd. If you got someone to go with you take them.

Chuck Anders

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The access through the dynamite shack road is on private patented land. The access to Stanton on Stanton road is on private patented land. The access up Mina Road (Stagecoach) to Yarnell is on private patented land. The access to Morales Ranch Road and Angels Ranch Road are on private patented land.

If you couldn't drive on public County roads across private land you couldn't mine anywhere near Rich Hill.

That gate has nothing to do with Ben or the Octave/Beehive property. It's not on their land.

The gate on Weaver road is about miners screwing miners. Red Mountain is mining their claims with a trackhoe and bulldozer and running 20 yard trucks to their processing plant on the other side of that gate on Weaver public road. They don't want anyone up there (BLM) because they don't have a permit.

Use the back way if you wish - until someone puts a gate up. I know of two jeeps that have broken steering gear from trying. Maybe you will have better luck or you have an ATV.

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I don't mind a good hike. I can see the road from the dynamite shack on Google Earth.

Would like to visit the Weaver and Roadrunner claims back there this fall.

By the way a few months ago before the double gates were up I did see the guy with the rifle out there. After driving through the single gate he popped up from the mine on the right and started walking down the hill towards the road. Had an AR-15 rifle and was wearing military camo.

I was there pretty early in the morning and it looked like he'd spent the night out there guarding the place. I just drove right past him.

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Would someone help out an easterner please..


When this thread first started, because the word 'valley' was used I thought for sure y'all were talking about claims southward down Weaver Creek Rd from Angel Corner or Angel Crossing (is that what it's called..?) However, now I'm not at all sure where this situation is taking place..


It's been four years since we were last out there but if I remember correctly: When heading east from Stanton, Octave Rd becomes Weaver Creek Rd at the west side of the kinda horseshoe curve before crossing Weaver Creek and is the main part of Weaver Creek Rd through the crossroads, eventually cutting south.. The other main parts of the crossroad have a small stretch of road heading S off of which Powerline Rd and Angel's Ranch Rd (and another trail) split and the N side of that crossing then becomes Weaver Creek Rd as well..


Again heading east from Stanton, just past the nearly vertical wall-o-rock blocks and just before that swooping curve, off to the left there's a block building, which must be the old TNT shed mentioned.. At the completion of that 180, off to the left is a house where blond hair Gary and his Dad live.. There's also a gated entrance road to a mining operation up on the hill, to which the gate may or may not be closed.. Directly across from those drives is a way into both a Weaver and RR claim..


Is this the location to which y'all are referring..? If not, where is it in relationship to the 'map' I've drawn..? If it is the location, I'm left majorly puzzled about a couple of things.. One of them is, even though I don't know who Mark is (although I have to assume he's either Gary's father or the fellow up on the hill due to their claims) I fully understand why he did a new survey, since the previous one must have been majorly off kilter and there's been some serious realignment..


I say this because a while ago I'd done a Google Earth flyover of that specific location and was completely blown away by what appeared to be some major heavy equipment goings on.. Four years ago the area where some bigtime digging had recently taken place against the eastern side of Weaver Creek was under Weaver Claim, as well as land out of the river bed continuing eastward.. Gary's dad's claim picked up to the 'north' about halfway between the old diggings and Weaver Creek Rd..


Bill, when you went to Stanton to do some filming with Kevin H. I'd asked you to take a peek around the corner to see what was going on.. You said ok, even though both of us knew you were going to be busier than all getout and that little side trip might easily be overridden.. So when I didn't hear anything back I never pressed the matter, not that it would have changed anything, and assuming this is where y'all are referring to begin with.. It just may have kicked up another red flag sooner is all..


Anyhow, I have made some assumptions here -- so help me out if you would folks.. For one thing, if this is the location is the gate actually across Weaver Creek Rd or did they fence and gate the entrance onto the claims..?


Thanks,


Swamp

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Roadrunners changed their maps to say only access to those claims is by atv through the trail by the shack. I'm not sure who locked the gate or why but rrpc has said not to go accross the private property to access their claims.

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TWHaz

You can get there by going on the shack rd. but not easy. It's down in a hole and you need to get up on top. This is the only way you can get to Road Runner and Weaver claims. You will see how they pushed up dirt so you can't go over to Weaver rd.. Just watch it coming out being your're standing on your head when going back down to the shack rd. If you got someone to go with you take them.

Chuck Anders

Thanks Chuck

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Swamp The area (valley) is where the Cemetery is. You cannot drive to the Cemetery anymore, or the Claims in that area.

I worked on many open pit mines in Arizona and Nevada. Once they get started, they do not care about claims or claim owners. They are looking at the bottom line. Insurance is bad enough without someone suing them for injury while crossing private active mining property. Then there is the curious that will walk up on heavy equipment while it is working.

I do not hold a grudge against them. I am just trying to get to those claims as safe as possible. Maybe the users of the Claims in there will get together and clear a decent path.

Until then I will hike it or catch a ride when I can. I have a Jeep, but will not tear it up for my hobby. I am in this for the fun and adventure. not the $$$. Although I would not mind finding a nice one or hitting the Lottery.

Thanks for all the input. Good luck to all.

P.S. if you see a green jeep parked at the dynamite shack area, I will be up in there somewhere. Say howdy if you see me detecting.

Tim Hibbs

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