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Trying to figure out the best way to recover two main sizes of gold

My claim is covered with ore containing mostly iron pyrite.

There is gold in there, but very fine and i mean very fine.

Need a microscope to see them.

The second size from the dry washer are just big enough (barely) to see with naked eye.

As much black sand as there is, I do believe that it may also contain micon gold.

For the dry wash cons, I will use a shaker table. (RP4)

Like mentioned about about black sand, i do believe i will need to take the heavy tailings and leach it also.

The ore that is loaded with the pyrite I want to roast before running through crusher.

Don't have enough wood out there and no where at home to do this.

Was thinking about using one of those big propane burners and put the ore in a kettle.

But unsure if it would get hot enough to roast.

Just don't know. There is gold, but how to get it out is the question.

This claim i have is about a mile from another working claim.

That claim from what i have been told has the same type of ore with pyrite.

They are running twice through crusher and then screen at 400 mesh.

This is then leached out. Don't know what type of leach.

For myself I was going with acid/peroxide leach.

The was another one i found, emailed them and have not heard back from them.

I am thinking theirs was not all that great and they folded. It was called CLS Leach.

Any help would be appreciated.

Edited by NicorAdv
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I don't know for sure but I have a feeling cost are going greater than the return...?

Or, maybe you are just doing it for fun? Then it's ok.

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I don't know for sure but I have a feeling cost are going greater than the return...?

Or, maybe you are just doing it for fun? Then it's ok.

Yes, your right..... But i gota try....

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hello Nicor,

I have a few suggestions.

First: Have the ore properly/completely assayed. You'll want to know if it is partially arsenopyrite. Arsenic is nasty stuff, you do NOT want to breath those fumes. It isn't worth your life.

Second: You should fine crush before roasting.

Third: I've never known drywashers to be any good at fine gold recovery. For what you are recovering, you're probably losing that much again and then some.

Forth: Classify down as far as you can what ever you would normally run through your drywasher, and instead run that over your shaker table instead. Do a 5 gallon bucket that way and one through your drywasher, and compare your results.

Fifth: Leaching is also dangerous. Fumes can be deadly. If you have your assays done properly, they will let you know which type of process will result in the highest yield. One type of leach is always going to work better than another because of the different elements that are in your particular ore make up.

Sixth: Your hard rock assay will also let you know if it could be an economically feasible deposit, and worth any more of your time. Time is valuable, you don't want to waste yours on something that could never make you a profit.

Seventh: If your assays are good, selling to a large company with the money to develop might be an option.

I'm sure I've left out some stuff, but that's all I have for now.

Good luck.

Regards,

MetalliKile

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a time tested and simple way to get gold out of black sand is to smelt it. Simple, fast and reliable.......

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Hello Nicor,

I have a few suggestions.

First: Have the ore properly/completely assayed. You'll want to know if it is partially arsenopyrite. Arsenic is nasty stuff, you do NOT want to breath those fumes. It isn't worth your life.

Second: You should fine crush before roasting.

Third: I've never known drywashers to be any good at fine gold recovery. For what you are recovering, you're probably losing that much again and then some.

Forth: Classify down as far as you can what ever you would normally run through your drywasher, and instead run that over your shaker table instead. Do a 5 gallon bucket that way and one through your drywasher, and compare your results.

Fifth: Leaching is also dangerous. Fumes can be deadly. If you have your assays done properly, they will let you know which type of process will result in the highest yield. One type of leach is always going to work better than another because of the different elements that are in your particular ore make up.

Sixth: Your hard rock assay will also let you know if it could be an economically feasible deposit, and worth any more of your time. Time is valuable, you don't want to waste yours on something that could never make you a profit.

Seventh: If your assays are good, selling to a large company with the money to develop might be an option.

I'm sure I've left out some stuff, but that's all I have for now.

Good luck.

Regards,

MetalliKile

a time tested and simple way to get gold out of black sand is to smelt it. Simple, fast and reliable.......

Just back from claim.

Don't know why i put dry wash, except that is what i would like to use it. Too rugged to get the drywash down to where i want it.

The cons i have at this time came from both crevice vacumning and shoveling from selected areas on two of the dry creek beds.

I have two full buckets classed to #8. Did not crush any rocks this trip.

Ran 1/2 bucket through Gold Cube lots of black sand, too freaking much to suit me.

No visable gold, but then trip before you needed a loupe to see it, then some smaller specs appeared at 800x.

Actually not looking good.

Seems to much black sand to smelt without seperating it some more some how. At loss as to how.

I was thinking of running it through a 100 mesh and then leaching that with Hydrocloric and H2O2.

How fine of micron AU can a shaker table be used on?

Well maybe just found that answer, Keene's RC46T Rock crusher and ST1 Shaker table being used together.

Still doesn't really answer the question of how small. 20 microns?

The assayer that a person helping me called, stated they needed one ton of material, I an't got no way to take that much up there in one load.

Guess I'll have to call and see if I could bring it in multi trips over something like a 2 to 3 day period.

They want 1 ton, charge 500.00 if not some qty of AU, else the take some pecentage of the gold.

Not going back till Dec, maybe earlier, doubt it.

At this time I am just about at a loss, but not ready to give up yet.

Edited by NicorAdv
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If that Assayer wanted a ton of material in order to do an assay, for real...,

find another Assayer.

My two cents. And yes, I know, no one solicited my two cents.

But a ton of material... come on now.

Edited by AuTSaurus
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I'll search the web for assayers in Phoenix area today and call tomorrow.

2 cents worth is fine.. Got me to thinking about that assay.

I want to run more than just one assay.

Don't believe that 40ac is the same all over.

edit:

Found one in Austin, Tx.. According to web site they are in a number of states.

Sent email to them.

M & K Recovery Group

Anyone know or had dealings with them?

Edited by NicorAdv
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Here's a link to assayers in AZ. I would mail the sample instead of driving there.

http://repository.azgs.az.gov/sites/default/files/dlio/files/nid1613/circ091assayers.pdf

I think the price the assayer quoted you is to process ore, not assay it. I have a vein of black ore I'm hoping is silver. If the assay comes back positive, I would need pounds, not ounces per ton, to make it worth my while. A ton of material is 40 buckets five gallon size, and I would be doing this by hand, The vein is just not that big. It looks like the vein would be gone in a ton or two. The expense doesn't really come in lost time but in shipping the ore and processing fees. No special reason for me to think it has silver except there is some silver in the AZ that comes from a black ore.

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I'll tell you my experience with an assay....

I have a lode claim that the 4" wide quartz vein runs pretty much 1.8 to 2 oz/ton I have verified this by taking several 45-50 pound samples and weighing them, crushing them and processing the resulting material.

I decided to send in a sample for an assay. I took a fair amount and crushed it. I then split it until I had roughly a 2 pound sample to send in. The assayer then split it to do the assay.

ZERO gold in the assay!

I called the assayer and asked him why there was no gold in the assay when I knew the ore had gold. He said the results were not unusual. The small sample that was required for the assay just had no gold in it.

He said the best way to do it was take a ton of ore, crush it and recover the gold by the best gravity method I had available. Then I would know.

He said it sounded like that it was something I could do myself and it would be expensive for him to do it.

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I'll tell you my experience with an assay....

I have a lode claim that the 4" wide quartz vein runs pretty much 1.8 to 2 oz/ton I have verified this by taking several 45-50 pound samples and weighing them, crushing them and processing the resulting material.

I decided to send in a sample for an assay. I took a fair amount and crushed it. I then split it until I had roughly a 2 pound sample to send in. The assayer then split it to do the assay.

ZERO gold in the assay!

I called the assayer and asked him why there was no gold in the assay when I knew the ore had gold. He said the results were not unusual. The small sample that was required for the assay just had no gold in it.

He said the best way to do it was take a ton of ore, crush it and recover the gold by the best gravity method I had available. Then I would know.

He said it sounded like that it was something I could do myself and it would be expensive for him to do it.

I can understand that results, same as what i thinking will happen to me on an assay.

I have just about made up my mind to mount a trommel on the Gold Cube and cut path through the cacti to get my pickup to the backside of the 40.

The dry bed on the backside drains a lot more of the hill side.

Just lug all of it down to the bottom and toss material in it for a 1/2 a day and see what i have.

Lot of claims that the Gold Cube will catch this flour to micron size gold.

There is 37 or so buckets to a cubic yard. That's a lot of shovel fulls.

My setup now just takes way too long.

What i am wondering about on loading the Gold cube for 1/2 day, is will the trays get overloaded with black sand and not catch any gold after an hour or so.

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For me the gold cube did not work as a primary recovery system with a recirculator.

I had a gold cube I ran through a recirculating system. The most buckets I ever ran in a day was 20 buckets and that took me sun up to sun down. If your trommel classifies to 1/8 inch, maybe that will speed the process up. Every five buckets I ran I'd muck out five gallons of mud and replace with a five gallon bucket of water. That was a lot of work.

I did not get the gold as tiny as you said. I know when I saw the gold cube demonstrated, it did catch very fine gold, but that was being run in water that had all that silt already taken out of it, and not chocolate milk consistency water. Does not take any time at all for the water to get muddy.

With the muddy water, The gold cube would catch stuff that went through my smallest screen, 100 mesh, but I think you're talking abut smaller than that. The -100 mesh gold I caught was still visible and you did not need a loop to catch it.

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The trommel was built for the Gold Cube, just recent new item for it I think. Don't remember seeing it when i bought Gold Cube.

Holes are 3/16, bigger than what i would really like. Unsure because there is lumps of clay that i have to break up when class at #8 before running it.

http://www.goldcube.net/#/gold-cube-trommel/4587586068

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Don't mean to be negative, but I sent a few months trying to make the Gold Cube my primary recovery device with no success.

That trommel I don't think will move that much material. I remember taking about five minutes per bucket pre-classed to 1/8" when I was using the gold cube. It could take me an hour to fill a bucket, but there was at least 3 buckets bigger than 1/8" that got discarded. So that got me about four buckets per hour. My point being, with the trommel , most of that material will be going into the tailing pile, so it will seem like you're running more buckets, but the amount of -8 mesh material being put through the Cube per hour may be a 50% to 100% increase, but unless you've got a good streak, then it'd be marginal returns.

Also, when you do a ton of material, if you do a ton of -8 mesh material, which is around 40 buckets, you'd need to dig around 160 buckets to get that much. The most I ran through the gold cube was 20 buckets -8 mesh, which was probably 80 buckets dug.

A pay streak with large equipment can be a gram per ton or less, and to make the gold cube worthwhile, you may need 10 grams per ton or more. If you had a paystreak at 10 grams per ton, going after it with large equipment would yield an unbelievable amount.

Unfortunately, a reverse helix trommel made to move a lot of marerial with a gas motor or electrical generator, plus tubs could run you ten times that cost of that trommel.

I have faith in the system I have, but I have yet to find a paystreak more than $6 per ton.

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Don't mean to be negative, but I sent a few months trying to make the Gold Cube my primary recovery device with no success.

That trommel I don't think will move that much material. I remember taking about five minutes per bucket pre-classed to 1/8" when I was using the gold cube. It could take me an hour to fill a bucket, but there was at least 3 buckets bigger than 1/8" that got discarded. So that got me about four buckets per hour. My point being, with the trommel , most of that material will be going into the tailing pile, so it will seem like you're running more buckets, but the amount of -8 mesh material being put through the Cube per hour may be a 50% to 100% increase, but unless you've got a good streak, then it'd be marginal returns.

Also, when you do a ton of material, if you do a ton of -8 mesh material, which is around 40 buckets, you'd need to dig around 160 buckets to get that much. The most I ran through the gold cube was 20 buckets -8 mesh, which was probably 80 buckets dug.

A pay streak with large equipment can be a gram per ton or less, and to make the gold cube worthwhile, you may need 10 grams per ton or more. If you had a paystreak at 10 grams per ton, going after it with large equipment would yield an unbelievable amount.

Unfortunately, a reverse helix trommel made to move a lot of marerial with a gas motor or electrical generator, plus tubs could run you ten times that cost of that trommel.

I have faith in the system I have, but I have yet to find a paystreak more than $6 per ton.

negitive? Wish y'all would quit apologizing for posting your thoughts... Constructive criticism is always welcome....

What i have to do is find away to tell me if there is any gold in the first place, well there is....

But how really to get it out...

It is in the washes and in some of the types of rock that is there.

That was the orginal intent of this topic...

What is slowing me down from running any substanial amount of material is finding a way do it.

Right now i am having to class the buckets to 1/8 and then either haul that to the motel or take home and run through the cube.

That is some steep washes to climb back up with either the buckets or if i lug the Cube and all related item down with it...

Was wanting to get some up where i could run all day at the bottom of the wash. Can't be lugging bucket after bucket up to the pickup.

Looking at it on Google earth from the top of the hill to the lowerest part of the wash is about 100 feet.

I would say that the lowest I can reach right now leaves about 50 drop to the bottom, but this about 100 yards from where i want to use the cube.

I guess i could cut a path through the cacti on the north end to make a loop back to where it would only be about a 25 foot drop to the bottom of the wash.

Horizontal distance would be maybe 100 feet....

I am still thinking about the trommel.

There are large rocks which are easy enough to pick out.

What i had rather do is use the trommel, pick out rocks that i think are too big and just toss that shovel full into the trommel.

Depending the effiency of the trommel.... I think it would be less time thane to classify it to #8 and the run that.

I class to 1/2 and then to 1/8... Stacked screens.

If I can find anything that points to paying, I would get that backhoe from habor freight. it small enough to get down in there. small bucket on it, but....

I have 3 buckets here and just waiting trying to decide how best to run them.

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"Seems to much black sand to smelt without seperating it some more some how. At loss as to how."

On a VERY SMALL SCALE this is how I go about separating magnetite sands for "rule of thumb" sampling. You have some principles to keep in mind:

1. The constant force of gravity;

2. The constant force of magnetism;

3. Temporary kinetic forces formed by collisions; and

4. The "tipping point" where magnetic force exerts a greater pull than gravitational force.

Gravity is a long distance constant force that attracts both black sand and gold. Magnetism is a very short range constant force that only attracts the black sand. Kinetic forces in our example are the temporary forces that are momentarily transferred from the movement of one object or substance that collides or comes in contact with another object or substance. At a certain distance the strength of a magnetic force will overcome gravitational force -- BUT ONLY ON MATERIALS THAT ARE MAGNETIC. Thus, by carefully manipulating a magnet a substantial portion of the black sands can be removed from the cons while not significantly reducing the gold content. The trick lies in swiftly stirring the water while keeping the closest part of the magnet far enough away from the cons so as not to trap gold particles in between the black sands that will be pulled toward the magnet.

Thus, for example, start by spreading about an eighth of an inch of your cons evenly across a wide bottom plastic pan and cover with a few inches of water. Then take, e.g., a Keene or other brand of spring tensioned button magnet and begin swirling the magnet at least two or three inches above the bottom of the pan until the water has substantially increased in velocity. Gradually move the magnet closer and closer to the bottom Cease this downward direction as soon as you discover where the tipping point exists. The gold, being heavier than the black sand, will tend to remain deeper than most of the black sand while the black sand particles that are swept up in the current will make their way to the magnet without forming a "clot". Gradually the black sands will create a thickening blanket on the surface of the magnet. Even if some gold particles get caught in the current and flow of black sands making their way toward the magnet, there are no forces other than gravity and the collisions of other particles and water molecules that influence their travel. Therefore, the odds are great that a good portion of the few gold specks that may get caught up in the current will make their way back down to the bottom of the pan before becoming trapped in the black sand blanket. This is so because, while in suspension and getting impacted only temporarily by other particles and the eddies of liquid water, gravity (unlike the kinetic impact forces) exerts a constant downward force on the gold particles (which are totally unaffected by the upward pull of the magnetic force). Frequent dumping of the black sand accumulations finally will result in most of the Fe3 O4 (magnetite) being removed from the sample cons. Keep in mind that like panning, this is just a low tech method that only will be as successful as the skill employed by the operator. If you try it let us know how many minuscule gold specks your magnifier reveals after you've thinned out the magnetite. NOTE: hematite is a completely different story from magnetite. If your black sands are hematite (often a little more brownish in color than magnetite which is jet black), then the above referenced technique will not work because hematite has only very weak magnetic properties.

I hope this helps.

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I hope this helps.

Understood. Thanks..

Which gives me an idea for a non distructive mod of Gold Cube.

How good it will work? just have to try it and find out.

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Dude just simplify everything.. Taking buckets home, messing with water, carrying buckets, screening, gold cube!! Your trying to catch micro micro gold. In my experience it takes gobs of that small stuff to add up. Like I said simplicity use a drywasher it has a screen on it for a reason.

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that is what I was thinking, then run those cons through the cube.

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I have run almost all through the cube and nothing. Really find it hard to believe that there is not more of the flour/micron gold that i found before.

I have one bucket that i have not run. It came from a place that had about a 14 inch drop in 3 inches horz, into a basin (caleche bottom) that was itself 6 inches deep and about 2 feet long before rising again. The feed to this basin is so-so steep for maybe 20 feet. Few cracks in the caleche base of that slope.

I am not going to run it through the cube, even though it has caught a few specks of flour and one piece that was maybe 1/32 or so.

Going to run it through a gold dust concentrating table (water flow only), just a tablespoon at a time. Even it it takes me three day or so.

Saved tailings from cube and will rerun it on table also.

edit;

just remembered the micron sized gold was not run through the cube.

It was from some crushed rock and a sample of it put under a microscope at 800x.

The scope did not have the ability to measure it.

The gold from the cube was from the size of a grain of salt to about 1/32...

Edited by NicorAdv
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I feel your pain. I've done everything correctly sampling before, and based off samples dug a whole four feet wide, twenty feet long, and three feet deep to get a "pay streak" that turned out to be about $1 per yard dirt. The sample shows what's in the dirt that you run, and I happened to dig a sample that was much richer than the average of the rest of the dirt.‚Äč

It seems you're missing some smaller gold from the cube. A grain of salt is still fairly big compared to the fly poop sized stuff my gold cube recover. Depending on how much of that fly poop sized stuff is in there, it may not add up to much. It can take 100,000 grains or more of fly poop sized stuff to add up to an ounce. Although the gold you recovered from the cube is lacking the tiny stuff, it may not add up to much if think about the hundred thousand you need to get an ounce. I've spent hours on a second run to get pennies worth of gold. I really don't want to do that again. If the small stuff is worth it, may need to be chemical recovery, but that's way beyond me.

I also have tried to pan in water that was muddy before, not silty but thick like chocolate milk and found that some of the smaller gold was suspended in the mud and did not sink to the bottom. So if I didn't Muck the recirculator, I was losing some gold. Clean water gets the best recovery, but it's hard for me to take more than 50 gallons with my set up.

It sounds like you may be digging in a little waterfall. If it looks like a slide, more than likely it flushes the gold out of the whole. If it's straight down and recessed, it could trap stuff.

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If the small stuff is worth it, may need to be chemical recovery, but that's way beyond me.

I also have tried to pan in water that was muddy before, not silty but thick like chocolate milk and found that some of the smaller gold was suspended in the mud and did not sink to the bottom. So if I didn't Muck the recirculator, I was losing some gold. Clean water gets the best recovery, but it's hard for me to take more than 50 gallons with my set up.

It sounds like you may be digging in a little waterfall. If it looks like a slide, more than likely it flushes the gold out of the whole. If it's straight down and recessed, it could trap stuff.

I am very tempted to leach it, maybe not this run, but next.

There is much fine clay in this that it turns to chocolate milk.

I calculated how long it would take for a speck of gold the size of 100 mesh to sink to the bottom based on water median and the gold being the same as the drag coef of a brick. The calc show that it would sink at a rate of something less than 3 inches per second.

So i am shaking it up to suspend the clay and then counting to 30 (secs) before i pour off some of the top.

No idea if that is really doing any good or not.

But having said that, I tend to think that most of the gold is maybe 20 microns in size.

As stated in a previous post the claim just to east of me is crushing rock down to 400 mesh and then leaching.

I am just going to run what i have again when that table comes. Should be Tues/Wed of next week.

Not going to spend any more money on this till i know what i really have.

The 40 acrea claim I have is rugged. Can't just carry required equip to the far side for any single operation type.

Spent a little time looking for some sign of a vein.

Did not cover much of the area. Like i said it is a tad steep for me to be walking up and down.

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