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SUBJECT: Last Lead-smelting plant – closed by EPA

All lead for bullets will have to come from overseas! This move will also make the cost 100 LL (100 low lead aviation fuel) UNAFFORDABLE. Approximately 2 gm of lead is added to each gallon of aviation fuel!
There are numerous alarming reasons why the US government and the military have been buying up all the ammo. Here's one of them.
Obama and the EPA just shut down the last lead smelting plant in the US. They raised the EPA regulations by 10 fold and it would have cost the plant $100 million to comply. You can own all the guns you want but if you can't get ammo, you are out of luck.

Remember when Obama promised his minions that he was working on gun control behind the scenes? Welcome to it. Now, all domestic mined lead ore will have to be shipped overseas, refined, and then shipped back to the US. Not only will ammo be even harder to come by the demand and the process of supply will cause the price to skyrocket even more.
And ponder this. there is an excellent chance that Obama will rig the market to where all ammo has to be purchased from a government entity instituting de-facto ammo registration.

So much for the Second Amendment. There has not been a peep about this in the major news outlets. With the US no longer producing lead all supplies will now have to come fromChina, Australia, or Peru, with the overwhelming emphasis on China.

More redistribution of wealth; more economic and liberty crippling of the US on tap.

The idiots at the EPA (evil protection agency) had this to say: The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency said the company "made a business decision" to shut down the smelter instead of installing pollution control technologies needed to reduce sulfur dioxide and lead emissions as required by the Clean Air Act.

The Doe Run Co. announced last year that it had dropped plans to build a new lead processing facility in Herculaneum that would have used a new, cleaner lead production technology. The company cited the $100 million project as too financially risky.

The EPA is playing Mafioso I guess - we didn't make them shut down, they made a business decision. In other words, they couldn't pay the extortion, so the thugs shut them down.

But Marxists will do or die and are doubling down on the destruction of energy in America, our way of life and the Constitution.

The smelting plant has known since 2010 this was coming. They couldn't stop it and no one else rose up to stop it either. The business had been in production for 120 years and now goes the way of our auto industry.
The military's obsession with ammo was related to security and supply. They knew this was coming too, so they bought up all they could get before the plug was pulled. Screw the average American. It's as Chris Muir said, he's not as worried about where the bullets will come from, as much as how the government will deliver them and I'm right there with him on that one.

So, back door gun control is moving forward and while we are all distracted with shiny stuff, our Second Amendment rights are just about gone. Obama is one Marxist dictator who is savvy at political chess. He has flanked the Second Amendment.

Now it's our move -
You can Google this if you don't believe it, or read this article at:

http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/constitution/item/16881-epa-closure-of-last-lead-smelting-plant-to-impact-ammunition-production

Long term what this means: Your investment in ammo may be your best investment. Guns will be plentiful but ammo will be another story.
How does $3.75 a round (that's for one bullet) for a 9mm work for you? Box of 50 would only cost you $187.50
Do we have a great president or what?Pray for Obama Psalm 109

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I don't think it will stop them from being made in the US. What about Tire weight? If the Price of Led goes up, I have some for them to buy.

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It may be an end run but you can blame George Bush for it. It was his EPA that tightened the pollution regulations in 2008. Obama wasn't even elected.

All the major ammunition manufacturers report that they never used Doe Run's primary lead and don't anticipate any shortage of lead. I'm guessing this is all about Doe Run shutting down a 120 year old factory and pointing their finger at someone else to avoid the wrath of the 220 people who just lost their jobs.

Companies like Doe Run will continue to manufacture the lead used in ammunition because most ammunition in the United States is made from recycled lead that comes from secondary smelters.

“[T]he majority of the lead used by ammunition manufacturers comes from secondary smelters that recycle lead from car batteries,” Bob Owens of Bearing Arms wrote.

The Sierra Bullet Company said recently that it’s not worried about the Doe Run closure.

“Sierra uses no primary lead at all and never has, so we use nothing directly from this facility,” the company said in a statement on its website. “[W]e do not see any reason for alarm. We expect our supply to continue and keep feeding our production lines which are still running 24 hours per day to return our inventory levels to where they should be.”

“No impact upon any cast bullet manufacturing operation whatever. We do not use virgin lead, which is what Doe Run provided,” Brad Alpert, operations manager for the Missouri Bullet Company, told TheBlaze in an email. “We use foundry alloy from major foundries derived from scrap sources, purified and cleaned to purity.”

“The jacketed bullets companies (Winchester, Remington, Federal, et al.) use the same sources that we do,” Alpert wrote.

Steve Weliver of Cape Fear Arsenal added in an email to TheBlaze: “We have not begun production at rates that this will impact.”

“At this time we do not anticipate any additional strain on our ability to obtain lead,” Tim Brandt of ATK, the parent company of Federal Premium, CCI, and Speer ammunition, said in reference to the Herculaneum closure in a company FAQ.

Sure doesn't sound like the ammunition makers are worried. Now if they can only remember how to make rimfire rounds. :grr01:

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My wife works at a Wal-Mart and even she can't figure out when they come in. We have been finding them in dribs and Drabs the past two months.

post-21985-0-21066800-1400602233_thumb.j

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So, what date was the EPA established? :89:

1970 :brows:

Who appointed the current EPA administrator?

Well, it wasn't Bush. :tisk-tisk:

Can we get the "race card" put in here someplace now? :nutty:

Edited by Steel Pan
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Shot Down: EPA lead ammunition ban blocked by federal court

“There is quite simply no sound science that shows the use of traditional ammunition has harmed wildlife populations or that it presents a health risk to humans who consume game taken with such ammunition.”

A federal court on Thursday halted an effort by the Environmental Protection Agency to ban all ammunition containing lead, much to the dismay of gun control groups hoping to use environmentalism to “make an end run around the Second Amendment” right of access to ammunition, according to officials from several organizations representing gun owners and manufacturers.

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I have many MANY hundreds of pounds of lead from dredging and weights from the swaps/garage sales misc. YAHOO maybe lead might be the new gold??John :nutty:

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From Wikipedia:

Pollution at the U.S. operations

Doe Run has been cited regularly by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) for infringing emission limits, contaminating roads and generally polluting the immediate vicinity of the smelter.[8] Exceeding of emission limits has resulted in the reduction of the permitted capacity of the Herculaneum smelter.[2] Road contamination has resulted in orders to clean up certain roads and to wash down vehicles before they go onto public roads.[9] The company has also been ordered by the EPA to address issues relating to elevated lead blood levels in the community and lead in community soils adjacent to the smelter. It has also spent US$10.4 million on buying up to 160 residential properties close to the smelter that are contaminated and is to clean up contaminated soils.[10] The company has paid for research developing an electro- chemical replacement, Flubor[11][12] for primary smelting of lead ore.[13]

Pollution at the Peruvian operations

When Doe Run took over La Oroya, it also took over Centromin's PAMA (Programa de Adecuación y Manejo Ambiental or Environmental Remediation and Management Program), an environmental contract requiring environmental remediation measures that were to be completed over the next ten years. This was extended to twelve years, with Peruvian Government permission. Basically this program was to curb emissions of all types, gases, particulates and polluted water and clean up around the smelter and its waste dumps.

Until 1997 the smelter had been run without any concern for the environment with the result that the hills around the smelter had been reduced to a moonscape by sulfur dioxide from the smelters; the already polluted river had been made even more polluted by untreated process water; the soil in the city and surroundings had become contaminated with lead; the people in the city, especially the young, had dangerous levels of lead in their blood and many had bronchial troubles. In fact it was rated as one of the ten most polluted cities in the world by the Blacksmith Institute, a New York-based environmental group".[16]

A gradual improvement of the conditions have not yet been confirmed by any independent Institution. Doe Run has reported reductions in river pollution and lead, arsenic and cadmium emissions. Sulfur dioxide emissions will have been reduced by the recent commissioning of the lead smelter acid plant and should be under control when the acid plant for the new copper smelter starts up in October 2008, according to the company's official statement. Doe Run has been indemnified by Centromin (and guaranteed by the Peruvian Government) against any environmental liability arising out of Centromin's prior operations.[17] In May 2006 Doe Run received an extension to reduce toxic emissions and now has until 2009 to meet its targets. However, emissions are still well above limits set by the World Health Organization and the Peruvian government.

In October 2009 Doe Run still refuses to fulfill licensing requirements and orders forcing Peruvian authorities to grant another 30 months adjournment.[18]

Lead usage

Because of its toxicity, lead has lost many of its traditional markets such as paint, solder, tetraethyl lead (an additive to petrol/gasoline) and piping. On the other hand, it remains in strong demand for lead acid storage batteries which have been the dominant technology for automotive and other starting, lighting and ignition batteries as well as for motive power, telecommunication, network power, uninterruptible power systems and emergency lighting. By the early 2000s, the total demand for lead in all types of lead-acid storage batteries represented 88% of apparent U.S. lead consumption.[19]

Facts, just the facts ma'am.

Edited by GeoJack
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Pray for Obama Psalm 109

Just looked that up.

Hits real hard, and oh so true. :old:

(Romans 1:28, actually all of Romans 1 explains a lot :brows: )

Edited by Steel Pan
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The EPA is going to regulate us back into the horse and buggy age, then continue to regulate horse flatulence ...... There certainly needs to be a balance between mining and the environment, but regulating such an important metal out of existence is totally wrong

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I'm just glad I didn't procreate, would hate to see what the world will be like in just 10 years. Feel sorry for those with grandkids and what they will have to deal with.

Too bad Peru's EPA didn't stop the pollution. Wonder how those parents and grandparents feel about their kids and grand kids poisoned by the lead. I'm sure with more money the problem will go away, that and the peasants die.

Unfortunately mining has left a legacy of pollution, erosion and lands laid to waste etc., so hard for the government to let things ride without making sure it doesn't happen again. I've seen the Mallocoff and other areas stripped by hydraulics, it is an ugly scar on the landscape.

I think most of us have found "miner" mercury when panning, not naturally occurring, but what was used during the gold rush.

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I don't see your point. If Malakoff is such a wasted place why is it a Popular State Park? There is more pullution coming out of Washington DC than any mine left in the US...... I think folks like GeoJack need to set an example for all of us. Stop driving cars, make sure you don't leave any garbage for pick-up, but you can't burn it either. Stop using your phones, after all each component in it has been mined. Might as well tear off the roofing on your house, tear out the cooper plumbing, and for darn sakes quit using your pollution laden computer... There is actually lead in that. What do ya think, can you show us how to avoid mining? Oh yeah, let's use solar, but without mining there would be no materials to make the panels or transport the electricity.......

I hate anti mining hypocrates.

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Just a reminder for all you pea-brained liberals… I know you're gonna find this hard to believe,

… your phone and computer didn't come from the Apple store...

… the kale, arugula, tofu and whatever else you numb nuts eat didn't come from the grocery store...

… the wood that built your house didn't come from the lumber yard...

… the TV you watch Dancing with the Stars with didn't come from Best Buy...

… the tires on your Prius didn't come from the dealership...

… the electricity you use to charge your Prius didn't come from the wall outlet

… and the clothes on your back didn't come from the Gap!

​I know, I know… living in the Obama land of unicorns and fairies shields you from the realities of life, but how about you guys just try using your brains for once… will you? :grr01:

hypocritic.jpg

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The "Native Americans" got their arrow heads from the local arrow head store, "T'tonka Mart".

Along with meats, animal furs, and Tee Pee poles. :brows:

Of course, only 10 arrow heads per customer. :4chsmu1:

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Very funny post ... but a serious issue as well ... November is coming closer and so is opportunity for 'Change' ... First change is to take back the Constitution and Bill of Rights!

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CHANGE-ya right as the courts have legitimized total absolute graft,Super Pacs,tax fraud,corrupt banking practices,stock frauds--ya change 1776 redux-John :evil1:

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Big El, I think you are missing my point. I'm not against mining, I mine myself. I drive a big gas guzzling Chevy Extended Cab Long Bed, wife drives a Dodge Magnum. No Pirus here.

If you look at the history of our gold rush you'll see the different methods of mining were extremely damaging to the environment. This is the world that is left for your children and grand children. You don't want to see that protected? Why do you always swing out so far away from the discussion and instead want to point to me as a poster child for the assumed misdeeds of those who would want a better place for generations to come?

Malacoff is popular BECAUSE it shows what damage to the environment was cause by NO regulation. Malacoff is KNOWN as the one location that STOPPED hydraulics because of the damage done to the state waterways. That is exactly WHY it is a state park. Did you think it was a destination to show the beauty of a barren landscape? Who you take out of town guest to Malacoff or Yosemite?

From Wikipedia (I am sure a liberal website)

Malakoff Diggins State Historic Park is a state park unit preserving the largest hydraulic mining site in California, United States. The mine pit and several Gold Rush-era buildings were listed on the National Register of Historic Places as the Malakoff Diggins-North Bloomfield Historic District.[2] The "canyon" is 7,000 feet (2,100 m) long, as much as 3,000 feet (910 m) wide, and nearly 600 feet (180 m) deep in places. Visitors can see huge cliffs carved by mighty streams of water, results of the mining technique of washing away entire mountains of gravel to wash out the gold. The park is a 26-mile (42 km) drive north-east of Nevada City, California, in the Gold Rush country.[3] The 3,143-acre (1,272 ha) park was established in 1965.[4]

While beautiful in its own way, the Malakoff mine pit on the San Juan Ridge is a testimony to the avarice that was part of the California gold rush, and to one of the nation's first environmental protection measures.

In 1850 there was little gold left in streams. Miners began to discover gold in old riverbeds and on mountainsides high above the streams. In 1851 three miners headed northeast of what is now Nevada City for a less crowded area to prospect. One miner went back to town with a pocket full of gold nuggets for supplies and was followed back by many prospectors. These followers, however, did not find any gold and declared the area "Humbug", thus the stream was so named "Humbug Creek". Around 1852, settlers began to arrive in the area and the town of "Humbug" sprang up. These miners could not decide how to move the dirt to a place where there was water.[5]

By 1853 miners invented a new method of mining called hydraulic mining. Dams were built high in the mountains. The water traveled from the reservoirs through a wooden canal called a flume that was up to 45 miles (72 km) long. The water ran swiftly to the canvas hoses and nozzles called monitors waiting in the old riverbeds. The miners would aim the monitors at the hillsides to wash the gravel into huge sluices. Over time the monitors became bigger and more powerful. Their force was so great they could toss a fifty pound rock like a cannonball or even kill a person. Over 300 Chinese worked on this project and two Chinese settlements existed in North Bloomfield.

By 1857 the town had grown to 500 residents. Locals felt the name "Humbug" was too undignified and renamed the town "Bloomfield", but California already had a town by this name so they renamed the town "North Bloomfield".

In the late 1860s the towns of Marysville and Yuba City were buried under 25 feet (7.6 m) of mud and rock, and Sacramento flooded repeatedly.[6] The farmers in the valleys complained about the tailings that flooded their land and ruined their crops. Thousands of acres of rich farmland and property were destroyed as a result of hydraulic mining.

By 1876 the mine was in full operation with 7 giant water cannons working around the clock. The town had grown to a population of around 2000 with various business and daily stage service. In 1880 electric lights were installed in the mine and the world’s first long-distance telephone line was developed to service the mine, passing through North Bloomfield as it made its way from French Corral to Bowman Lake.[7]

By 1883 San Francisco Bay was estimated to be filling with silt at a rate of one foot per year.[5] Debris, silt, and millions of gallons of water used daily by the mine caused extensive flooding, prompting Sacramento valley farmers to file the lawsuit Woodruff v. North Bloomfield Mining and Gravel Company. On January 7, 1884 Judge Lorenzo Sawyer declared hydraulic mining illegal.[8]

So yeah, let's go back to this. Government be damned. It was the runaway methods of mining that caused the government to react.

See, the extremist can't define a middle ground, just the edges. I've voted Republican, Independent and Democratic throughout my life. I see the majority of the post here from the extreme right and why I have fun engaging you guys. As I have posted before, I enjoy a good debate, if I don't know the FACTS I look them up and offer them into the debate. (see above)

I find it curious that everyone enjoys their time out detecting / prospecting and mention how nice it is to be out but struggle with protecting this same emotion for the following generations. Why do you fill your detecting holes, why not just leave them? Why do you take the lead home in your pouch when you find it instead of just tossing it back in the hole? Do you recycle? Why? Just toss it out back and let nature recycle it for you.

The government sucks no matter who is in office. I have held office on our local fire dept. board because I was upset over how it was being run and keeping the reputation upheld as the center of our community. I felt the need to get involved. I believe I have something to offer the community in my beliefs. The Board I sat on was 4 Republicans, two who are VERY active in the Republican Party, they all voted unanimously for me to chair the board for two years running, the only liberal in the room. Board votes were almost always 5-0 over those two years and we accomplished a great deal.

I don't need to lower myself to name calling, I prefer to debate the facts. Just the facts. Oh, I have been wrong in the past and will probably be wrong again in the future but I attempt to look at the facts before I make up my mind on the situation or bring my beliefs into a discussion.

Do you?

Edited by GeoJack
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Big El, I think you are missing my point. I'm not against mining, I mine myself. I drive a big gas guzzling Chevy Extended Cab Long Bed, wife drives a Dodge Magnum. No Pirus here.

If you look at the history of our gold rush you'll see the different methods of mining were extremely damaging to the environment. This is the world that is left for your children and grand children. You don't want to see that protected? Why do you always swing out so far away from the discussion and instead want to point to me as a poster child for the assumed misdeeds of those who would want a better place for generations to come?

Malacoff is popular BECAUSE it shows what damage to the environment was cause by NO regulation. Malacoff is KNOWN as the one location that STOPPED hydraulics because of the damage done to the state waterways. That is exactly WHY it is a state park. Did you think it was a destination to show the beauty of a barren landscape? Who you take out of town guest to Malacoff or Yosemite?

From Wikipedia (I am sure a liberal website)

Malakoff Diggins State Historic Park is a state park unit preserving the largest hydraulic mining site in California, United States. The mine pit and several Gold Rush-era buildings were listed on the National Register of Historic Places as the Malakoff Diggins-North Bloomfield Historic District.%5B2%5D The "canyon" is 7,000 feet (2,100 m) long, as much as 3,000 feet (910 m) wide, and nearly 600 feet (180 m) deep in places. Visitors can see huge cliffs carved by mighty streams of water, results of the mining technique of washing away entire mountains of gravel to wash out the gold. The park is a 26-mile (42 km) drive north-east of Nevada City, California, in the Gold Rush country.%5B3%5D The 3,143-acre (1,272 ha) park was established in 1965.%5B4%5D

While beautiful in its own way, the Malakoff mine pit on the San Juan Ridge is a testimony to the avarice that was part of the California gold rush, and to one of the nation's first environmental protection measures.

In 1850 there was little gold left in streams. Miners began to discover gold in old riverbeds and on mountainsides high above the streams. In 1851 three miners headed northeast of what is now Nevada City for a less crowded area to prospect. One miner went back to town with a pocket full of gold nuggets for supplies and was followed back by many prospectors. These followers, however, did not find any gold and declared the area "Humbug", thus the stream was so named "Humbug Creek". Around 1852, settlers began to arrive in the area and the town of "Humbug" sprang up. These miners could not decide how to move the dirt to a place where there was water.%5B5%5D

By 1853 miners invented a new method of mining called hydraulic mining. Dams were built high in the mountains. The water traveled from the reservoirs through a wooden canal called a flume that was up to 45 miles (72 km) long. The water ran swiftly to the canvas hoses and nozzles called monitors waiting in the old riverbeds. The miners would aim the monitors at the hillsides to wash the gravel into huge sluices. Over time the monitors became bigger and more powerful. Their force was so great they could toss a fifty pound rock like a cannonball or even kill a person. Over 300 Chinese worked on this project and two Chinese settlements existed in North Bloomfield.

By 1857 the town had grown to 500 residents. Locals felt the name "Humbug" was too undignified and renamed the town "Bloomfield", but California already had a town by this name so they renamed the town "North Bloomfield".

In the late 1860s the towns of Marysville and Yuba City were buried under 25 feet (7.6 m) of mud and rock, and Sacramento flooded repeatedly.%5B6%5D The farmers in the valleys complained about the tailings that flooded their land and ruined their crops. Thousands of acres of rich farmland and property were destroyed as a result of hydraulic mining.

By 1876 the mine was in full operation with 7 giant water cannons working around the clock. The town had grown to a population of around 2000 with various business and daily stage service. In 1880 electric lights were installed in the mine and the world’s first long-distance telephone line was developed to service the mine, passing through North Bloomfield as it made its way from French Corral to Bowman Lake.%5B7%5D

By 1883 San Francisco Bay was estimated to be filling with silt at a rate of one foot per year.%5B5%5D Debris, silt, and millions of gallons of water used daily by the mine caused extensive flooding, prompting Sacramento valley farmers to file the lawsuit Woodruff v. North Bloomfield Mining and Gravel Company. On January 7, 1884 Judge Lorenzo Sawyer declared hydraulic mining illegal.[8]

So yeah, let's go back to this. Government be damned. It was the runaway methods of mining that caused the government to react.

See, the extremist can't define a middle ground, just the edges. I've voted Republican, Independent and Democratic throughout my life. I see the majority of the post here from the extreme right and why I have fun engaging you guys. As I have posted before, I enjoy a good debate, if I don't know the FACTS I look them up and offer them into the debate. (see above)

I find it curious that everyone enjoys their time out detecting / prospecting and mention how nice it is to be out but struggle with protecting this same emotion for the following generations. Why do you fill your detecting holes, why not just leave them? Why do you take the lead home in your pouch when you find it instead of just tossing it back in the hole? Do you recycle? Why? Just toss it out back and let nature recycle it for you.

The government sucks no matter who is in office. I have held office on our local fire dept. board because I was upset over how it was being run and keeping the reputation upheld as the center of our community. I felt the need to get involved. I believe I have something to offer the community in my beliefs. The Board I sat on was 4 Republicans, two who are VERY active in the Republican Party, they all voted unanimously for me to chair the board for two years running, the only liberal in the room. Board votes were almost always 5-0 over those two years and we accomplished a great deal.

I don't need to lower myself to name calling, I prefer to debate the facts. Just the facts. Oh, I have been wrong in the past and will probably be wrong again in the future but I attempt to look at the facts before I make up my mind on the situation or bring my beliefs into a discussion.

Do you?

Situation is, the Liberals are doing everything they can to force Socialism on We the People. By Hook or Crook. Right now we have a Crook in office.

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