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Ever seen such ugly Treasures.....

Someone mentioned in another post he had never seen a penny

that was unrecognizable, here's a few plus the Quarter in the middle

and the Dime that is maybe half it's original size....

After going back through my finds, I found 8, yes eight, 1965 Dimes

but not a single '64 or older in all 40-50 Dimes..... amazingly frustrating!

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found a lot of those zinkers in my area that look like yours or worse.

they just don't make them to last like they did with the older copper

cents. some soils are harder on them than others I guess.

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I would interested to know if all the pennies that have the "bubble" effect are dated after 1982 ("zincolns", zinc with a an outer coating), I did see one 1970 penny (all pre-1982 pennies are copper) in your second photo that didn't have the bubble effect.

Zinc corrodes easily and does bubble in an acidic environment, copper not as easily in the same environment.

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That park is newer so older silver coins are next to non existant. Hit the historical society and you'll find what you need to find the older parks. Even some of the older parks were remanicured--bulldozer skimmed off lawns and such as deep as a foot and new seeding or sod took it's place. Lotza luck-John

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NO, I said I have never seen a completely worn-out penny...those are mostly corroded zinc/copper pennies...wheaties and indian heads you will still be able to identifiy...zinc pennies will rot just from exposure in the wet night...

fred

Edited by fredmason
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That park was established in 1903 and has been in continuous use since, bumped into a couple of MD'ers in the park the other day and the one gentleman had pulled a lot of silver out over the years, and in fact the other gentleman showed me a Merc he dug the same day I talked to them, it's in there though getting a little sparse.... they were both using White's Pulse machines as well, which I found interesting, as one gentleman left his 3030 sitting in the truck preferring the pulse......

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Rae...no vlf will beat a Pi for depth. If they were using the TDI and Reg Sniff's methods they could likely contain their detecting to silver and copper...keep looking you will find silver, v-nickels and indian heads sooner or later...

fred

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Well, well, well It just so happens that one of the gentlemen I was speaking with was none other than Mr. Reg Sniff himself..... he has been scouring that park for 25 yrs and is a wealth of information on detectors..... Small world!

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Reg is the finest sort of person, unmatched in the mysteries of metal detectors and one hell of a talker...He was a great help to me and I will always be grateful!

fred

Edited by fredmason
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Well, well, well It just so happens that one of the gentlemen I was speaking with was none other than Mr. Reg Sniff himself..... he has been scouring that park for 25 yrs and is a wealth of information on detectors..... Small world!

Let me guess… he was shooting with a TDI Pro… am I right? From all the chatter on the different detecting forums… seems the TDI Pro is catching on with the coin shooters and relic hunters as the detector to have, just because of the many different ways it can discriminate out a lot of the trash you normally find in a park. Plus they don't suffer from the EMI interference you normally find in the big cities because you can adjust the frequency. I've learned a lot from Reg about how detectors work. He definitely knows his stuff. :thumbsupanim

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I guess I am a very lucky fellow to have him here in my home town...... though it might explain why the nectar is so scarce....

And yes it was a TDI though an older model and it might have been modified... I had a little trouble keeping up with him in

that regard, and the other guy had purchased his from Reg, a newer TDI with 2 more controls etc.... I knew I should have

been paying better attention! : )

He was more than helpful and was way ahead of me on our local history too, we did exchange info and an agreement to

get together sometime, I will be following up for sure and hopefully get an opportunity to learn a thing or two from him.

Feels like I might have walked into an opportunity of a lifetime going to have to make the best of it.

Thanks guys...

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Well at least ya found out whatzup even if it's not pretty. Pounded to death is not good. Like I said prior,go to the historical society and find another not so well known and hammered-John

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Rae...Reg will quickly move into tech-talk that will baffle and dazzle most of us...I doubt he has ever used a detector more than once without modding it...he has contributed to the development of a variety of detectors.

Virgin sites are always more productive but they can be rare as hens teeth...keep searching there are still good finds to be made right where you are now...

say Hi to Reg for me, please.

fred

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He was struggling a bit physically, with his cane and detector, and hasn't been getting out much, but was intending to get out more and get limbered back up.

I will pass on your salutations to him when next I see him....

And I got out in front of him for the moment as I'm doing a couple of private homes that he hasn't been to before, as far as I know, lol... Will post my finds as I get them completed, already up 6 wheats so I know the potential is there and that is only the first half of the backyard, saving the front for last.....

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi Fred and Ron,

Well, since my ears were burning I thought I might jump in here and correct a couple of things.

Ron, the guy I was hunting with (Jim) was using a factory TDI SL and i was using one of the SL type Super Pulse units that basically is a SL with two controls gone. Those two controls are the delay and the conductivity switch. This unit was originally built to be sold in Africa but the people over there are lacking knowledge of detectors so they try to purchase exactly the same as what is being used by someone they know.

Ron, I have been out to the same park several times and haven't seen you out. Now, I spend a lot of time trying to get my brother (another Ron) up to speed on detectors. All the years my dad and I would go to AZ nugget hunting, my brother had no interest. Now, that our dad is gone and my brother is getting about as bad as me health wise, he decides to take up gold hunting. He went down to AZ last winter and found a few pickers with a new GB2 so now he is hooked.

I had to laugh, the other day my brother was at the park trying out his new White's TRX pinpointer and making the same mistakes while expecting different results. For those of you not knowing, the TRX is a VLF based upon the MXT design. It has the ability to ground balance this device which is quite unique for a pinpointer. I find it has exceptional depth, which is one feature I really like. Oh yeah, it is quite sensitive to really small gold.

Fred, how in the heck are you doing? Hope all is going well.

BTW, Fred you are right, I talk too much but can't help it. I enjoy modding detectors and talking about what I have done to them. Now, I am having a difficult time leaving the Supe Pulse alone. I am getting used to hearing all tones and not being able to shut one off.

Somene asked how bad is the ground here. Well, for a VLF it s really bad. Years ago George Payne designed his Mark 1 such that he could evaluate the mineralization of the soil using a simple technique. He had meter reading values for low, medium, high and extremely mineralized ground. Our ground at this park was easily extremely mineralized. This park sits above the Arkansas river and at the upper end of the Arkansas is ground extremely mineralized with magnetite. So, over eons of time, a lot of that black sand was transported down the valley. Years ago, I checked different areas up to 90 miles away down stream and found that within a mile or two of this river, the black sand type mineralization was extremely high.

In such areas, a detector will not get super depth since the disc feature will begin to fail on coins deeper than 6+ inches. Those deeper coins will begin to read like iron junk. The dryer the ground, the worse it gets. Back in my VLf nugget hunting days, I figured out how to sort of make the detector cheat and gained a couple of inches in depth. It also made my old Lobo disc feature much more accurate on gold such that it would seldom error on it.

I left that old Lobo with Tony Pancake for years and he found hundreds of small nuggets with it. I got it back from him some time back, but he missed it so much i sold it to him at a quite reasonable price.

Reg

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Reg, nice to see you getting out more, and back online...

I have only been back to the park once since I last saw you there, that's interesting about our mineralization I had no idea.

Sounds like I might need to rethink my next detector....

I've had a couple homes to do, and have been researching the original town site down by the confluence, as well as Ft. Reynolds

out in Avondale always looking for those old virgin sites, maybe where you haven't beat me to the punch, if that's possible!

Would love to meet up with you one day just to pick your brain, on the history around here and the metal detectors, but sounds like

a gold machine set up to work in the high mineralization areas would be very beneficial here along the Arkansas...

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A gold machine isn't necessarily the best option. For example, my brother tried using his GB 2 and that didn't work that well.

Now, he is trying a newer GB which is a lower frequency and it works ok.

The MXT might work a little better, though.

As for your Tesoro line, I have used a lot of the older models and only one of the newer ones. They work fine but work better with a few mods. Like most detectors today, they added circuitry to compensate for what I call operator stupidity and that compensation does have its down side.

Early VLF motion detectors had a direct relationship between the ground balance and the discrimination mode. The problem with everything being direct with no offset is in places where there are magnetite hotrocks, one could get a strange moaning signal when in the disc mode. People often thought there was something wrong with their detectors and sent them back to the factory to be "fixed". The real fix was to educate the operator and require him to make adjustments to compensate for the hotrock problem.

Well, it didn't take manufacturers long to realize getting the people to understand wasn't going to happen so the simple solution was to adjust the detector internally to make this compensation built in. As such, an offset was installed that would shift the disc GB portion a few degrees so that when ground balanced in the all metal mode, the GB was really offset enough in the disc mode that hotrocks no longer gave a negative signal. Other manufacturers simply went to an internal preset GB for the disc mode that did the same thing.

Your detector has no operator adjustable ground balance control, so it is a preset type. A quick way to tell on your Tesoro is to switch to that all metal (AM) mode and bob the coil. The audio should increase as the coil is lowered if properly set to minimize problems with hotrocks. In most places there is no need for this offset, but the exceptions cause enough problems with manufacturers they simply set them all basically the same.

One thing Tesoro owners often do is "super tune" their disc mode. To do this you simply switch to the disc mode and turn the threshold to max. Now, on a Bandido or another Tesoro with a ground balance, you turn the GB to where the threshold goes quiet in the AM mode. Flip to disc and bob the coil and continue to turn the GB counter clockwise (more negative) until you get a strange moan when the coil is lowered. Then back the GB cw until the groan is gone.

There is a third mod that can be done but it requires cutting and hacking the pc board. This mod adds a respectable amount of depth by sort of cheating. By cheating I mean, on a typical discriminator, there are two signals one is the all metal and the other the actual disc signal. Both signals generally have to be present with a good signal to produce an audio output. In a typical disc setup, this disc signal is biased off all the time and requires a "good" response through the filters. I change this and bias this disc portion on slightly. Thus any signal in the disc metal channel produces a good response.

Why do I do this? Simple, iron signals are way stronger than non ferrous signals, so any ferrous junk easily produces a relatively strong negative disc signal, thus shutting off this disc channel by easily overcoming the offset I added. So, in simple terms, iron junk is still easily rejected but deeper questionable good signals come through as good objects. This simple mod added between an inch and two inches to the depth in the disc mode.

I don't recommend anyone trying this last mod without extensive experience with pc board mods. It is all too easy to mess up a good board and make it difficult to undo.

BTW, as mentioned by Fred, you can see I can't leave well enough alone.

Reg

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A gold machine isn't necessarily the best option. For example, my brother tried using his GB 2 and that didn't work that well.

Now, he is trying a newer GB which is a lower frequency and it works ok.

The MXT might work a little better, though.

As for your Tesoro line, I have used a lot of the older models and only one of the newer ones. They work fine but work better with a few mods. Like most detectors today, they added circuitry to compensate for what I call operator stupidity and that compensation does have its down side.

Early VLF motion detectors had a direct relationship between the ground balance and the discrimination mode. The problem with everything being direct with no offset is in places where there are magnetite hotrocks, one could get a strange moaning signal when in the disc mode. People often thought there was something wrong with their detectors and sent them back to the factory to be "fixed". The real fix was to educate the operator and require him to make adjustments to compensate for the hotrock problem.

Well, it didn't take manufacturers long to realize getting the people to understand wasn't going to happen so the simple solution was to adjust the detector internally to make this compensation built in. As such, an offset was installed that would shift the disc GB portion a few degrees so that when ground balanced in the all metal mode, the GB was really offset enough in the disc mode that hotrocks no longer gave a negative signal. Other manufacturers simply went to an internal preset GB for the disc mode that did the same thing.

Your detector has no operator adjustable ground balance control, so it is a preset type. A quick way to tell on your Tesoro is to switch to that all metal (AM) mode and bob the coil. The audio should increase as the coil is lowered if properly set to minimize problems with hotrocks. In most places there is no need for this offset, but the exceptions cause enough problems with manufacturers they simply set them all basically the same.

One thing Tesoro owners often do is "super tune" their disc mode. To do this you simply switch to the disc mode and turn the threshold to max. Now, on a Bandido or another Tesoro with a ground balance, you turn the GB to where the threshold goes quiet in the AM mode. Flip to disc and bob the coil and continue to turn the GB counter clockwise (more negative) until you get a strange moan when the coil is lowered. Then back the GB cw until the groan is gone.

There is a third mod that can be done but it requires cutting and hacking the pc board. This mod adds a respectable amount of depth by sort of cheating. By cheating I mean, on a typical discriminator, there are two signals one is the all metal and the other the actual disc signal. Both signals generally have to be present with a good signal to produce an audio output. In a typical disc setup, this disc signal is biased off all the time and requires a "good" response through the filters. I change this and bias this disc portion on slightly. Thus any signal in the disc metal channel produces a good response.

Why do I do this? Simple, iron signals are way stronger than non ferrous signals, so any ferrous junk easily produces a relatively strong negative disc signal, thus shutting off this disc channel by easily overcoming the offset I added. So, in simple terms, iron junk is still easily rejected but deeper questionable good signals come through as good objects. This simple mod added between an inch and two inches to the depth in the disc mode.

I don't recommend anyone trying this last mod without extensive experience with pc board mods. It is all too easy to mess up a good board and make it difficult to undo.

BTW, as mentioned by Fred, you can see I can't leave well enough alone.

Reg

Great post Reg. Had to come over here to find your writings. looking forward to more. AzNuggetBob

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Reg

Thanks for the response....

I do have an electronics background and like to tinker myself...

Someone mentioned you can tweak the pot on my Silver to adjust the auto GB some

and of course I did this.... spent an hour or so messing with it and got another inch or

so in my test garden... got the dimes to come in much better and quarters at a full 8"

which it wouldn't do previously... my Buddie's Xcal wasn't picking them up at all except

in AM which kind of surprised me for a $1500 machine.

So if I take my Silver to the park to make the adjustments where you had said the mineralization

is so high might it improve it's performance slightly?

I also have a new Tesoro Sand Shark, might you be able to build in some Discrimination

it seems very stable and is deeper than my Silver but would force me to dig an awful lot

of junk to find any good stuff, I realize it would void the warranty but I have had it for sale

for a couple months and it appears I won't get over $400 for it, so I'm basically

giving the dang thing away, it has all of an hour of use on it.

Going to look you up in the phone book, so you can expect a call from me, if I knew you were going

out and giving some training to your brother I would be thrilled to listen in.

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Hi Reg, I was out near Winnimucca and over in the Sierra for a few days...I am well, thanks.

I hope you know that anything and everything say about you is with respect and admiration...you are the best of the best!

fred

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Hey Fred,

Been bout you, hangin rock an framing for a month, it has not gotten much lighter over the last few decades, not tryin to hijack this thread, heard only good about Reg..... Keep on beepin boys and girls.....

Jeff

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi fred,

I know you well enough to know you are always a gentleman who always shows respect for fellow hunters. So, don't be bashful, I don't get upset any more.

On a different note, since I have maybe 40 different detectors (most of them older models) I need to take Ron under wing and let him try a few of the newer ones I still have left to see what he likes. Unfortunately, I have been selling off some, so I don't have some of the more expensive ones any more. As an example, I recently traded my F75 Camo LTD for another TDI. I still have a few left like the MXT for him to try or maybe a newer Fisher Gold Bug. They are used for coin hunting also.

BTW, I find the Fisher GB is fantastic in trashy areas. I have a couple of the SE models with the software just before they made the PRO. So, they are supposed to be basically the same depth wise. On the other hand, I don't think much of the Fisher F2. It doesn't work that well in this bad ground.

Reg

Edited by Reg
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I certainly enjoy the mentoring and hope I can do your wisdom justice by learning

a few things to pass along.....

But as is normally the case you have probably forgotten more than I will ever be

able to learn....

I have always had the curiosity to want to know how things work and feel learning something

new never gets old, though as I get older it's too easy to forget today, what I learned

yesterday if I don't pound it in deeply enough, so if you find yourself repeating things

to me it's just an effort for me to remember.....

Thanks Reg and Fred

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