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homefire

Another thing they can ban . Killer Bullets!

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I think my 12 guage would have a better pattern :old:

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That RIP G2R Ammo round is currently only available in 9MM Lugar and is currently out of stock. It sells for about $42 per box of 20 rounds. Certainly not target ammo but a very effective personal defense round.

Mike

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You can home load a lot better then that. Start with Flichet.

The LeO hates this stuff. It makes Kevlar look like butter. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flechette

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You would sure ruin a lot of good meat with one of those things.

It seems they defeat the principle of weight retention. They come apart and therefore slow down faster. They only weigh 90 grs to begin with.

Bullets that do not retain their weight do less damage. I will be shooting.projectiles that expand but retain their weight. It seems that a good 125 gr. 9mm bullet with a thick jacket, hard lead and a hollow cavity would be much deadlier than 90 grs of copper designed to fragment and veer from the wound channel.

I bet those gimmick bullets are all less deadly than a standard full metal jacket bullet. And an FMJ is a piss poor bullet for anything but plinking.

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I cherish my lil'ol' .357 mag fulla teflon impregnatted biforcated shredders as nuttn' gets up after a hit by one a them devils. My bud Bob loads some wild and crazy rounds for sure but always marked as I use'm for home/camp defense only. Reloading is the only way to go with current insane prices-John

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The point is, unless you are a combat shooter most people, even highly trained police cannot shoot worth a crap when in a genuine shoutout. I saw this in person during combat when a newbie got in his first firefight. I would say the military trained him very well but when someone is shooting at you with the goal being your death, aim takes a very steep dump until you can learn to channel adrenaline. These new projectiles are looking to help with that poor aim. You can get lucky with spray and pray, but experience along with training is what counts. Not many of us are combat shooters so these projectiles should be considered as great help.

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"You would sure ruin a lot of good meat with one of those things."

Yup, they sure will. :brows:

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I wonder how much of that stray crap headed at right angles to the bullet's path will cause collateral damage. I wonder how many of these things will go to center mass and how many will detonate on a target, wall, arm shot, or mid range obstacles.

No one is going to combat with these. Self defense may be comparable to combat from the perspective of a trigger monkey but the similarities end there.

I wouldn't use these for self defense because the guy I have to shoot might be holding my wife by the arm or shooting up a crowd. Stray schrapnel is what I DON'T WANT for self defense inside my home.

So while we can visualize ourselves in combat situations full of imagined testosterone, the overwhelming odds are that we will need to defend ourselves at home or in a public situation. In a place surrounded by those we want to protect.

Any projectile that is only 90 grains and comes apart is less lethal than one that does not. Sure many small radiating wound channels may make an impossible mess but it will not kill or BRING DOWN a target any faster.

Good bullets stay together. Self defense is not combat. Projectiles that have many chaotic and unpredictable trajectories are very dangerous.

A flattened shotgun pellet is the main cause of injuries when bird hunting. They go in an arc and can hit you even if you are standig far out of the line of fire. They can turn more than 90 degrees and fly in a mean hook. Imagine shooting a bullet that had the good chance of fragmenting and flying out in all directions.

It may make a killing shot out of a bad shot. It may also hit someone it is not intended to hit. They are light and carry little energy compared to the real deal. They sound more like a potential for injury when jackasses shoot them on the range at something and don't realize flat pieces of copper tumble and fly like little boomerangs.

The three flat slugs on a wire are dumb. The wire breaks 80% of the time and one goes wild. The other two are loke an Argentine bolo flopping around super inaccurate. You may as well throw the gun at them.

In my opinion it is a gimmick to appeal to guys who imagine shooting people and feel so much "deadlier" carrying some sort of BS ammo.

I bet any true ballistic test will prove that bullets designed in the classic way are much more lethal. I will anso bet that a standard bullet will be safer and more useful in any real combat or self defense situation. I know that this will start a whole bunch of chest thumping and hyperventilating but that is my opinion on these (and all other) gimmick ammunition. Give me a high quality hollow point or wad cutter (depending on caliber and speed) and I am safe and happy.

Could you imagine being in a convinience store with two or three people at point blank and having this shitt in your gun? If you use the weapon you stand the chance of hitting a lot more than just tha bad guy. You want a bullet that will hold together, get real fat and release all of its energy on the target taking him right off his feet. If it does pass thru you want everything to hold together well. And a killing shot is not nearly as important in self defense as the first shot. Or the most shots. Statistically the effectiveness of a weapon for self defence does not have to kill or even be fired to be effective.

I think it is a flaky concept that runs contrary to what I have been taught about projectiles as well as self defense.

Now Steve can call me names and say I don't know what I am talking about but offer no clue as to why my logic is wrong.

Carry on!

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Well, then you wouldn't like a 12 ga loaded with dimes. :25r30wi:

The additional cost is only from $.10 to $1.00. :brows:

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Well, then you wouldn't like a 12 ga loaded with dimes. :25r30wi:

The additional cost is only from $.10 to $1.00. :brows:

A perfect example!

A shotgun loaded with dimes would be much less lethal and create so much more collateral damage. That is why no one that knows what they are doing would use them.

For injuring a bunch of people in a crowd they would be great. For blowing away a couple of guys from under a card table they are groovy. But for any combat or self defense situation they would suck big time.

Wow! We finally agree on something PS!

Imagine having to use a shotgun loaded with dimes for self defense. What possible situation would it be good for? No velocity, no pattern, no penetration and no range. You would be better off with a hammer.

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This is why GOD gave man the Means to make SHot GUns! LOL

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Door opener, better than a knob or key. :brows:

For every task there is a tool. :old:

You don't want to be on the other side of the door. :4chsmu1:

Well, maybe you would since there isn't much danger. :nutty:

I can name a lot of things you won't agree with me on. :rasberry::25r30wi:

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It is a matter of physics and not one of agreement. If you believe a load of dimes gives you some advantage over a load of buckshot then groovy. And if you want to shoot open a door with a load of dimes then I can't say I am surprised.

Your ignorance is showing plainly though....you might want to zip that up so everyone can't peek at it.

Just sayin.

(insert string of emoticons here because verbal expressions are too difficult)

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If you believe a load of dimes gives you some advantage over a load of buckshot then groovy.

Door opener ,...Bob, ....door opener. Stay on the subject. :tisk-tisk:

Try my "door opener" vs buckshot and get back to me.

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Yeah, the next time I need to blow up a door I will try dimes. It is probably better for blowing up doors. Gotta have some of those on hand....

I hope if I am ever in a situation I am shooting light little bullets that go to pieces quick and scatter everywhere. I apologize to this forum, and particularly Steel Pan for suggesting otherwise.

And if you are standing in line with a six pack one day when the idiot. in front of you pulls out his gun you really want the guy behind the counter to be shooting an ounce of dimes. It just makes good defense sense.

Keep in mind I am a liberal and that makes me stupid. What I say is always lies and any opinion I have is irrelevant. So any knowledge that I may share with this group is suspect. It is probably more BS and I have no real world experience with firearms anyway.

We should write our congressmen and demand that all new police recruits who do not have actual combat experience use these types of bullets in their handguns and dimes in their riot guns. After all, if they got nervous and missed their target....well...you know.

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Funny how the socialist here seems to be pulling the know it all crap again. He acts like he has a ton of combat shooter experience. Maybe shooting it out with a bluebird counts. In my tested and proven combat experience I have seen well trained military soldiers blow it during their first firefight. It takes experience and training to be able to channel the excess adrenaline into the reality of what is happening. As I stated previously, not many people including well trained cops can shoot straight in a combat situation. (Any shoot out is a combat situation). So I think this is a very good defensive bullet that could occupy the first and even second round in a handgun. In home defense a scattergun is great, but out and about not many carry one.

I tried to order some for my 45, but wouldn't ya know it, they can't sell them in this screwed up State of CA. Friggin libtard socialist commies have ruined a once great state.

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I think...........That all bullets should be made out of gold. Think of the penetrating power. And you guys wouldn't be blasting so many people because of the expense.

I think I have enough for about two 50gr bullets ( sure wouldn't want to be wasting these if a 2X4 would work just as well :4chsmu1:

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I agree completely Steve. Fragmenting bullets are clearly the best for all the reasons you have mentioned.

And you are right. Combat in the jungle is just like combat in a grade school and there is no difference between fighting in a military situation and defending yourself in your home.

Since I have no combat experience I could not possibly have any input that may be of value.

A golf ball cannon and bullets designed to come apart. What a glorious defender of everything that is America!

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Combat experience on the streets with LA gangs counts too.Just send a white boy to Watts,Pacoima or Wilmas districts about midnight and watch them bullets fly. Gold thieves also give ya practice and by god them lovely mindless toothless wonder crackheads are always ready and willing to give ya a go with some practice too.........John

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And that makes light bullets that come to pieces and caarry no shock even better.Because imaginary battles with mean ol gangbangers has taught you ballistics and physics.

If only I had experience like that! You tough guys make me feel so overwhelmed with your combat experience!

:)

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I completely support the second amendment and the reasons for it being in the constitution


however it is always eye-opening to read the opinions of all you guys who are armed to the teeth


because you are afraid of being assaulted or attacked


by someone else who is armed to the teeth.



When the underlying theme of a thread is basically about enhancing the ability to be able to kill someone else


I am sure you will understand why I find it


amazing,


especially in light of the fact that most of the victims of gun violence


are young people.


------------------------------------------------


"Who Is Most Affected by Gun Violence?


People between the ages of 15 and 24 are most likely to be targeted by gun violence as opposed to other forms of violence. From 1976 to 2005, 77 percent of homicide victims ages 15-17 died from gun-related injuries. This age group was most at risk for gun violence during this time period.


Teens and young adults are more likely than persons of other ages to be murdered with a gun. Most violent gun crime, especially homicide, occurs in cities and urban communities. [1]


Intimate partner violence can be fatal when a gun is involved — from 1990 to 2005, two-thirds of spouse and ex-spouse homicide victims were killed by guns. The overall number of firearm homicides among intimates has fallen considerably during the past 30 years, however."



-----------------------------------------------------


Let the - you are wimp, - you have no combat experience so you couldn't possibly know anything,


- you are a leftist socialistic communist not-a-real-American - accusations begin.


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I think the attitude of a man can be accurately gauged by the style of his bullets. The more afraid he is the more his bullets fragment.

Those who insist the shoot down doors must be very afraid of what is on the other side.

Those that fear a weak, sick crackhhead or an inner city thug are in the wrong environment for their personality. Anyone who would take a gun with fragmenting projectiles or a shotgun loaded with dimes is not interested in self defense.

These people are the only reason to justify gun laws. Honest armed citizens are nothing to fear. Jackasses that obsess with killing to the point they forget the basics of ballistics (or never learned them in the first place) are not only a physical liability but a liability to our freedoms as well.

More people will be injured with that little schrapnel on the range than bad guys in the city. People that know guns and ballistics will reject this gimmick but will be associated with the macho men that just can't resist.

The bullets give them a feeling of being "more lethal". While this is a fantasy we fail to acknowledge that the fantasy is exactly why they carry them. It makes them feel tougher, badder and more deadly. Couple this with some tough talk about "combat experience" and mention young minoriry men and they get the replacement testosterone that their bodies are not producing anymore.

The video said it all. Fully auto pistols, cool graphics and claims of devastating power. The bullets fill a psycological and personal need. You can see plainly by the hits in the silicone blocks that they are bullschit. But bullschit is what these guys are feeding on.

AFRAID you will miss the BAD GUY? Get yourself a gimmick to put in or on your gun and you will feel better about it.

AFRAID OF WHAT'S BEHIND THE DOOR? Keep a shotgun loaded with DIMES to BLOW DOWN THE DOOR.

(incidently dimes won't shoot down a standard 12 gauge barrel)

It is an excersise in psychology but it has nothing to do with ballistics nor self defense.

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Those that fear a weak, sick crackhhead or an inner city thug are in the wrong environment for their personality.

Gee... wasn't it you who was bragging to the board about how mean and tough you were when you had to pull your carry piece at least 3 times to scare off some bad guys. Hmmm... wonder what environment your "personality" was in that put you in those situations. :nutty:

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