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Pacific Legal Foundation Breif Re: CA Suction Dredge Ban


elder-miner

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YAHOO as I've stated dozens of times the Pacific Legal Foundation is our 1 and only hope for our dredging rights.. Called,written and emailed for a looong time and these folks have gotten MY CASH for years for all their good work helping miners---not all wins but always going forward -John

Edited by Hoser John
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An important point emphasized in this PLF legal brief is the distinction between a local government (such as the State of California) determining the usage of federal land and regulating the usage. The argument is that California essentially has determined that in stream placer gold mining on federal lands within the borders of California is limited to recreational activities such as gold panning; that California has failed to regulate suction dredging for placer gold -- instead it has prohibited this type of mining. The reason this argument is presented is because the current weight of federal case authority appears to deny a state the ability to outright ban a usage otherwise permitted under federal law. However, an even more forceful argument is offered in the PLF brief: that a state may not substitute its version of permissible usage in place of a commercially practical usage if such state version has the effect of frustrating a federal usage (in this case the mining Law of 1872).

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All the older and more experienced miners like you John, that have "been there and done that" should have all the respect due to them from the mining community. It is miners like you guys that don't sugar-coat the issues and say it like it is (sometimes a bitter pill, but truth full none-the-less) that will wake up the "couch potatoes" and get them to be involved in protecting and securing our mining rights. I, for one, definitely appreciate the experienced miners posts and comments and have been supporting where I can to the organizations that are fighting for miners rights......here's hoping that others will do the same and we can get back to doing some serious placer mining. :yesss:

Edited by Gold Nuggets
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Back on 2006-7 I put in countless hours and miles into fighting AB1032. At times it felt like I was a lone soldier against a giant army. It was so hard to get any support at all. I even had offered to hand Cary letters to the governators office. I ended up with exactly three letters, one of which was mine. I called for protesters to show up when Arnie was deciding about signing it into law, ended up a protest of just one person (me) standing out in front of the Capitol all day with a big sign...I could not even get dredgers to call the governor's office........ Well, the governor vetoed that one, but when the next one came along, I got out of the fight... Why help dredgers when they are not even willing to help themselves.........no one even wanted to admit that the root of this problem was in a Happy Camp, at least that story is now known as the truth to be the vector for all this.

It's good to know that an organization other than the PLP dumb bells or the New forty whiners had taken this fight on and knows what they are doing. I own 3/4 mile of the S Fork of the American River that I would love to dredge again!

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The points made in the PLF brief are essentially the same as those made by PLP and the New 49ers (the two primary entities that got into the fight and still are in the fight). Personally I am very grateful that PLP and the New 49ers have aggressively fought back against the radical greenies who are behind all the bad legislation and court challenges. Each to their own opinion I suppose, but I don't see any pragmatics in polarizing the attitudes of forum members at this particular time. Dredgers need all the help they can get. This is a time to circle our collective wagons and leave the backbiting (or congratulations) to another time.

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I have know Jerry Hobbs when he owned and ran Azusa Gold shop off of hwy 39 in Azusa. This man has given a lot of time and has fought this hard battle in Sacramento for years. He has fought for miners rights and our right to our public lands. He has sacrificed his own health because of the stresses involved with protecting our right to mine. With the limited amount of resources I support both PLP that Jerry and Pat Keene started up in the 1990's, I figure heck, we need all the help we can get. I do agree that PLF has the know how and right firepower to fight and win this battle. I good friend of mine, which i will not name is an attorney for PLF, and I feel confident they have the right type of people to do the best for our cause.

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Hahahahah wow where is that shovel :Diggin_a_hole: when any organization does 10 X fold harm than good it no longer is a organization representing anyone for anything than themselves. Outright blatent obstructionism is NOT fighting for rights just prolonging pain,suffering and agony for personal gain. You can have all your false gods as I am reality based and have and always will take a organization that DOES NOT cut our throats,namely Pacific Legal Foundation rocks as always. BUT this ALL doesn't mean squat because CDFG threw in the towel and admitted they can't--no longer have the time,cash or expertise to do a comprehensive EIR so the dog Stopher,and his lobbyist cronies,closed 95% of the land 95% of the time and whats open is non producing coastal ranges and gold area when under snow in the middle a winter :2mo5pow: YAAA. So for close to $20,000 f/w permit you can use a 4" for a couple a weeks in a single spot with $2,200++ in water quality control permits and not within 4' of a bank. LL most of my creeks are NOT 4' wide and at least 8' wide to even work at all. THIS IS A WIN LOSE SITUATION...so run what ya brung and let your conscience work out the rest-John

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John, are you the president of team Keene outlaw. Preemption case from Rhinehart should be our salvation, can't wait for a win to see the picture of John dancing a jig on his 8 inch, with a rock on t-shirt and a bottle of tequilla

'

Edited by Oakview2
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Now that Brown declared California is in a drought, the state doesn't have to play by their own rules:

The state's foremost environmental law no longer protects wildlife or the environment from the effects of the state's response to the drought, after an emergency drought declaration was signed by Governor Brown at a press event in San Francisco Friday morning.

Buried in the language of the declaration, unmentioned at the press event which focused on voluntary conservation programs, is a clause exempting the state's responses from having to comply with the California Environmental Quality Act (CEQA), the backbone of the state's environmental protection law.

The declaration claims that compliance with CEQA would get in the way of swift reaction to the effects of the drought emergency.

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Might have to wait a while longer for more of the "dust" to settle before it will

be clear just how far-reaching the drought declaration will be and what it will

take to enforce the declaration. Could get quite interesting......

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Been that a way for me for quite a long time. XP dies in April as being abandoned(no updates to program,patches,customer support or security either and messenger crippled mid december as it all goes down the rabbit hole. Should have gone to windows 7 as 8 and 8.1 monumental flop,remember millenium and vista POOF gone. 8 been declared flop and replacement coming out,don't know name,guess Microsoft should just call it the Big Screwing ya got for believing in them??John

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I wrote a few comments to this thread. Only to find out for some odd reason, I could not cut/paste them into a reply.

Is it me, or has something changed here? I recently upgraded to Windows 8. Is that the problem?

I always paste from Word. When replying to a topic, if you look at the top right hand corner you'll see the letter "W". Click that and it will bring up another box. Paste into that and hit OK. Should be work now.

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