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Is the .17 HMR the new .22 LR?


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Just try and find .22 ammo. :th:

When I can find it sales are limited to 2-50rd. boxes.

The .17 HMR is very plentiful. I buy 4 at a pop.

I have shot .22's for many years but a couple of years ago

I picked up a Marlin .17 HMR. It too is a rim fire cartrage but

I think it out performs the .22 by leaps and bounds.

The ammo is priced higher, but at least I can get them.

( $11.99 for 50 rds.of Hornady's V-max 17 grain at Cabellas)

The .17 HMR is faster and holds line of trajectory longer than the .22.

A real "Yote" and White Tail killer out to 300 yds. :brows:

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The .17 muzzle velocity, 2550 fps.

At 100 yrds., 1901 fps,

At 200 yrds,, 1378 fps.

What's not to like? :idunno:

I've seen 500 round bricks of .22's for $99.99

through Cheeper Than Dirt. That's $5.00 for a

50 round box.

I'm not burnin' up any more .22's, I'm hangin' on

to what I still have. The .17 will take care of anything

the .22's can, and more. That's why I've changed over

to the .17 for casual shooting. I shoot for acuracy,

not just to throw a lot of lead around. :nutty:

I took the Marlin, bolt action by the way, and put a scope

on top of the "Bull Barrel".

A very sweet shootin' little "Hot Rod". :brows:

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You would try for a White Tail with that? Head Shot would be the only thing I could think of. I've heard they come unglued going through brush and even twigs.

It has the Velocity for sure but not the Bullet Weight. I don't have one and don't think I want one.

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True Homy, twigs will deflect 'em, but that is true of almost any caliber.

They are hollow points and perform as such in a critter. Won't be bustin'

through any ribs though.

Ain't nuthin' wrong with a head shot. Kinda like shootin' a football at

100 to 250 yrds. I'd just asoon not take a shot over 100, but if'n I's hungry,... :brows:

Out here they can't be used for deer hunting, legally, but I have a cuz in Tenn.

that takes White Tails with 'em. :4chsmu1:

I've "heard" that you can take down a "Muley" if ya git 'em right behind the jaw

in the upper neck. :inocent:

I realize they're not for everybody, but I sure do like mine. :yesss:

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.22 will take down a Elk no problems with a Ear Shot. Any place I hunted it was .30 Cal exception being .243. .270.......

Survival who gives a chit what the law says if your hungry.

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That .17 will be tough to keep clean and easy to get dirty. Those tiny bores are really difficult.

I like the round but it is not the .22 rim. It does not run in a handgun like the .22 and it is much more likely to deflect on even small grass. And wind is a LOT more difficult to dope with the .17. You can be FEET to one side at 100 yards and a 10 mph wind.

It would be unethical to hunt any big game with it. Sure you can kill an animal given the perfect shot but that is not the measure of a hunting rifle.

Darn fine plinkers and squirrel guns. In open country they would make good truck rifles. In woods or brush Id much rather have the .22 long rifle or even the .22 mag. They are more consistent shooters in real life situations.

I like the little round in a Marlin rifle. Lots of guys are shooting them. I think a little Ruger 10-22 chambered for them would be fun.

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I have the cleaning equip, so that's not an issue.

If you keep a gun clean, it's easier to clean. :old:

I agree about not using it for large game, but it'll

sure take out ground squirrles. :brows:

I do believe in matching the gun to the game. :D

The longer any round is in the air, the greater the chance for wind drift. :4chsmu1:

I don't shoot at grass blades. That would be anti-vegan. :arrowheadsmiley:

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I've shot many a rabbits that thought they was hiding behind that little Hummel of grass. I've shot coyotes through a bit of mesquite branches and the .22 did the job and from what I hear the .17 may or may not have.

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The 17 is just a 22 mag necked down. Not any harder to keep clean that a 22.

deflection for a 10 mph wind at 100 yards is 3.3 inches.

With a little practice, we were hitting empty 20 gauge at 150 yards.... Anything you want to know, go here:

http://www.varmintal.com/17hmr.htm

Edited by LipCa
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The little barrels are very sensitive to pressure spikes due to leading. The smaller diameter barrels are exponentially more sensitive to fouling. Yes, much moreso than a .22 due to the smaller bore.

Just as a .22 cal is more sensitive to fouling than a .30. That is just the way it is. A .002 coating of fouling is hardly noticeable in the way a .30 shoots, will raise pressure considerably in the .17. It is fast enough to be hard on lead projectiles and small enough to be pressure freaky. You will find accuracy starts being affected by fouling long before the .22. And pressure is relative.

Cleaning is darn tough with that tiny gear on that special rod. And tiny rods bend in those tight bores. The patches are rediculously small and easy to stick in the bore. And you need a bore guide or you will constantly be scraping your rod across the leades.

That is what I was talking about when I mentioned cleaning and bore dia.

Anyone that has shot one much will come to find what I am saying is true. The tiny bore gets dirty fast and is more difficult to clean than a .22.

Some .22 rifle barrels won't lead up in 500 rounds with good ammo that is not insane velocity. Even the little 36 grain .22 lr will lead a lot more than a standard velocity round. And some barrels lead up more than others just like faster ammo may lead more. A harder alloy bullet helps too.

But when you push them past a certain velocity it does not take too many shots to start leaving lead in there. A .22 mag is fast enough to be a lot worse than a lr and a .17 is just that much more speed and an even tinier hole. That makes it lead faster and the leading make more difference.

The Marlin "micro groove" rifling is "groovy" for high speed plated lead. It might be a better barrel than some others. I shot a Remington rifle and had problems with leading at about 150-200 shots. Patterns would get higher and wilder and shots would sound crisper. I would brush it out and get the flakes out of the barrel and things would settle down again.

I like the .223 for a mouse gun. A S&W AR-15 With a 1-4x Leopold scope. It is not that much more expensive to shoot and you can reload for it. I like it as an all around truck gun but it has deflection issues in brush and twigs. I can blow 500 rounds through it and it still shoots under an inch at 100 Yards. It makes a little more noise than a .17. I haven't shot my .22 rifle since I got it. I shoot a lot of rimfire pistol. That is where the .22lr really shines.

Edited by Bedrock Bob
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My Son has a .17,and I have shot it quite a bit. It is a dandy little rifle for its size.

My 9 year old grandson can drive nails with it at 100 to 150 yards.

I use a 22-250 for coyotes ,for the stuff bigger than me,my old model 64 Winchester

30-30 does just fine. My 9mm works good enough to put the fear of God in a snake.

It must be OK,because since I started to pack it,I haven't seen any snakes. :idunno:

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Just got 3 boxes of 50 -22s at walmart last friday for $7.50, box of 550 at the Sportsman for $24 so showing up again. Buying 1,000s as can disappear just as fast as reappearance here in kalif-John

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Cleaning rods?

Ya don't need a guide. :arrowheadsmiley: Well, I don't. If you are not in a hurry you won't bend the rod. I cut my own patches

and I have NEVER had one lodge in the barrel. Take your time and do it right

and you shouldn't have any issues. NEVER use an aluminum rod for any gun. Brass is the only way to go.

Must use some smarts when using cleaning equip. Sit back, put on a good movie,

and take your time. If I'm going to shoot enough rounds to foul the barrel, I bring along

my kit and brush the barrel after 100 rounds. I take very good care of my guns.

I don't burn up ammo just for the heck of it, no need to burn up a couple of hundred rounds.

If you can't get "dialed in" after 10 or so rounds, go home and try again another day.

I find that 50 keeps my eye in shape. :brows:

A gun is just a tool, choose the right one for the task at hand. :old:

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Just do it the old way. Fishing weight on a peace of string and a patch tied to the other end. Steel Wool if needed.

That was the standard cleaning kit in the military.

Edited by homefire
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It would be a bad idea for the same reasons but a whole lot less critical in a shotgun barrel.

A shotgun bore does not need to be cleaned really. You just need to make sure it does not rust. Even if it does you are not going to be able to tell.

A rifle bore is a completely different animal. The little ones are especially important and have their unique challenges whether we are willing to discuss them or not.

It is a wise idea to use a bore guide and a solid carbon fiber rod or a one piece coated rod with the .17. I like the carbon fiber cause it does not bend. You are going to drag any rod you use across the leades unless you use a bore guide. And you are going to be running the rod across the lands if you push a patch from the breach. Any rod you use will work better if you PULL the patch through the breach....and the size of your patch won't be as critical.

I bet you can't clean it six times without sticking a patch, bending a rod, bending a brush or some other failure. Even one degree off or the slightest bend in a rod means you are dragging the rod down the machine work.

I like the little round and I'm not knocking it. Cleaning is an issue and so is fouling even if it seems to be one of those unspeakable topics. For the record we can pretend that the .17 will not foul any faster than a .22 rimfire and that there are no issues with cleaning them at all. We certainly don't have to discuss it if you don't want to.

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You can let burnt powder and rust build up in your shotguns if ya want,

but that is just plain neglect. If you aren't going to take care of a gun

ya might as well just throw it away. :nutty:

"I bet you can't clean it six times without sticking a patch, bending a rod, bending a brush or some other failure."

Really? Ya, O.K., :rolleyes: , now I have to go back and stick a schmidt load of patches and bend some rods and brushes

just to meet your scenario. :cry2: I had a rod "bow" once, figured out the solution right away. :brows:

FYI, a brass cleaning rod will NOT damage the inside of a barrel.

Aluminum rods can leave scrapings on the lans, and steel rods will

scratch the inside of a barrel and damage the sharp edges of the lans. :old:

Far as I'm concerned, the "cleaning issue" in this thread is over.

I'll clean 'em my way, you go ahead and clean 'em, or not, your way.

I intended this to be a thread about the .17 HMR and it's ability to replace

the .22 as far as very nice alternative. :D

If you want to continue "off topic" and discuss gun cleaning, or the lack there of, I'd rather that

you start a new thread. But, you do as ya want. :4chsmu1:

But first, go back to school. :25r30wi:

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I'm comparing the .17 to the .22 Steel Pan. Exactly "on topic". I am sorry if my input has been a burden to you.

The .17 will never replace the .22lr because it is not as versatile and also because there are so many rifles out there chambered for .22. People are still looking for the "replacement" for the 30-06 and it has not happened in over 100 years. And since the .22 lr is such a fine pistol cartridge as well as a rifle cartridge it will enjoy much more popularity than the .17 ever will.

You can buy .17 and not .22 because the .22 is in more demand. It is a neat "niche" caliber that makes a fantastic rifle round for plinking and small varmints inside 150 yards. It is faster and capable of a little better accurate range than a .22. It is more influenced by wind than a .22 as well as deflection. It is what it is.

...but in my opinion, whether you value it or not, is that the .17 will never replace the .22 lr nor will it ever gain anywhere near the popularity of the .22.

And of course you are free to think whatever you like about me, the .22, the .17 and anything else.

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I read an article that stated according to the science/formula of calculating the killing power of a bullet, the .17HMR wasn't an effective as the .22 WMR, the .22 WMR. at 150 yards had the same killing power of the .17HMR at 100 yards, that being said it did state that...

"Used with proper ammunition, the .17 HMR has an advantage in velocity, trajectory, and accuracy. The .22 WMR has an advantage in energy, bullet frontal area, sectional density, and consequently killing power."

"Killing power

Assuming a proper hit in the animal's vitals, killing power is determined by a complex of factors including (but not entirely limited to) the width and depth of the wound channel. This, in turn, is influenced by bullet energy, frontal area, sectional density, and expansion characteristics. In other words, it is a complicated matter that is still not entirely understood.

There have been many systems devised to compare the killing power of rifle cartridges, most of them by people with a pre-existing bias of one sort or another. The best and least biased of such systems of which I am aware is the Optimum Game Weight (OGW) formula devised by Edward A. Matunas and published in the Lyman 47th Reloading Handbook. Matunas tried to account for a variety of factors, not just caliber or kinetic energy or momentum, the major failing of most killing power formulas.

Like all such systems, OGW is not perfect. I find that it seems to be most reliable when dealing with mainstream centerfire rifle cartridges on the order of the .243 Winchester, .270 Winchester, .30-06, and .338 Win. Mag. Since we are dealing with much less powerful small bore cartridges in this comparison, I suggest that we view the following OGW information as a comparative tool, not as an absolute guide. That, in any case, is usually the best approach when dealing with killing power formulas.

The OGW figure estimates the optimum live weight of the animal for which the cartridge is best suited at any given range. Note that the OGW weight is not the biggest animal the cartridge will kill, merely the optimum size animal for that range. Also note that individual bullet performance is not a factor in calculating optimum game weight; it is assumed that the hunter will choose an appropriate bullet for the job at hand. And it is also assumed that the bullet will hit the heart/lung area of the animal; brain or spine shots would obviously result in much higher OGW numbers, but they are not considered. Here are our two best long range loads for OGW comparison:

  • .17 HMR, 17 grain = 7 pounds at muzzle, 5 pounds at 50 yards, 3 pounds at 100 yards, 2 pounds at 150 yards, 1 pound at 200 yards.
  • .22 WMR, 40 grain = 17 pounds at muzzle, 9 lbs. at 50 yards, 5 pounds at 100 yards, 3 pounds at 150 yards, 2 pounds at 200 yards.

"

Here's the link to the article.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/compared_17HMR_22WMR.htm

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