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GeoJack

Detecting and Tresspassing

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I guess I am confused about shooting people. I thought the idea was to avoid having to shoot someone. It seems that you guys dwell on circumstances that you believe you can shoot someone legally or take a "bluff shot" into someone's equipment.

If you come down to earth for just this once in 2014 it would benefit you all to brush up on your right to defend yourselves as well as your basic responsibilities as a gun owner.

The only thing more stupid and greedy than trespassing to highgrade a nugget would be dreaming about shooting at someone for highgrading a nugget. It makes no sense whatsoever.

Edited by Bedrock Bob

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In the past five years access to public land has greatly improved. There are several areas with access today that were landlocked before. As a matter of fact there is a special office and staff dedicated to purchasing and trading land specifically for access to these areas.

It is not a private owners responsibility to allow access across his property. It is not a matter of "agenda 21" either. It is all about land ownership and always has been. We have more legal access points to tracts of landlocked public land than we evef have had despite the misinformation.

Every time the BLM trades a piece of land for an access point some fellows try to make a "liberal conspiracy" out of it. But if they encounter an area they must ask permission to access they scream about agenda 21.

There are hundreds of landlocked parcels of BLM land here. I have never had any trouble accessing any of them. If yyou can't figure out how to get there on an easement all you need to do is call BLM and they will tell you who you need to contact for access across private land. The same office that does the land deals for new access routes also handles access routes across private land.

This is something that has been ongoing for decades. The idea that there is some sort of conspiracy to keep us off public land is hogwash. There is a big effort in the opposite direction as more and more private access rotes are closed.

Kalifornia is different. Way different.

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Kalifornia is different. Way different.

Only inasmuch as the amount of people and private land is greater and the amount of public land much less. That makes access issues much more difficult and apparent. And when areas are designated as preserves and such it further complicates things.

For the purposes of recreational prospecting there are limited opportunities it is a fact. But for hikers, campers, hunters and fishermen things are peachy. Some activities on Public Land are certainly being limited. But that is really not an access issue nor is it in line with the discussion on tresspassing so I won't go there in this post.

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BB is absolutely correct-if your a bird watcher,back packer, nature trail hiker, etc. If your a miner, fire wood user, OHV rider, miner, logger, utility company, water company. or want to do anything else productive on public land you have been had.

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Nothing wrong with multiple use. People enjoy a whole lot of activities out there.

No one has ever limite my access to good gold except corporations with big mining plans that never materialize for one reason or the other. There is a lot more gold ground off limits for the prospector due to big mining companies than the BLM ever closed. They seem to be the largest obstacle around here.

I figure if they have been holding that ground for fifty years and can't figure out how to mine it at a profit when gold is $1200 bucks an ounce they need to let the people have it back. Someone else might be able to make a go of it or maybe the average Joe can spend some time mining recreationally.

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The problem we have around Mariposa, on BLM, is cattle ranchers, pay BLM for grazing rights, the ranchers, try to keep everyone off the land, they can't legally, because they only have grazing rights, not mineral rights, and its still BLM. but they act like they own the land. Grubstake

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Tell them you will promise not to eat any grass while you are prospecting.

Some guys will blow a lot of hot air about "their ranch" but they all know the scoop. You don't have to play their game as long as the land is public. I have had very few problems with ranchers. There is an azz hole in every bunch though. The problem is that it is all bluff. Just smile and let them blow a fuse. Just like any other azz hole in any public place.

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In California if private property has been used by others for five years, the property owner can lose their right to keep people out. It's called a prescriptive easement. The article linked below has great information about this.

http://www.troutmansanders.com/files/upload/Prescriptive%20Easements%20in%20California.pdf

So, if the "private roads" the OP mentions have been around for more than five years, it's likely there's nothing anyone can legally do to stop people from using it at will.

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Again guys (and gals), I was just beating my chest about the fire arms, I only have a couple of guns and it has been 5 or more years since I fired any of them except the BB gun which I use to frighten off woodpeckers from the house. My wife use to work with wildlife rehab and won't let me harm a fly. I even catch and release spiders in the house.

I contacted BLM regarding a BLM parcel that neighboring property owners have fenced, put in a road with a mailbox at the gate. No reply.

Well, as d_day posted, maybe I am completely wrong in my assessment of people accessing the BLM parcel. My apologies for not being more informed and it just gave me the right to go through some gates that have kept me from accessing some other areas. I'll print that out and hand it to some property owners nearby.

Thanks

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GeoJack and all

Be very careful ,and do some research,before attempting to use some roads.

If there is other access to federal land,a land owner can legally close a road that

in on his land,and privately maintained. A private driveway can not be used by the

public ,as an access route.

I have never been denied access or hassled by anyone including ranchers,or mining

companies. Access is an absolute key item in my business. Personally I don't have

much respect for anyone,that has to plot and scheme to steal from a land,or claim

owner. If a guy is so pathetic that he has to stoop to such level,he needs a new hobby.

A public easement is OK ,as in an open sub-division, community road,but a private

drive,or road solely on private land,privately maintained is a big No No. Also the feds

have actually gave back right of way rights to land owners,in areas where there is

other access.

If a guy has to look over his shoulder,he shouldn't be there period. Some land owners

do over extend their rights,and try to bluff the public. This is where you need to know,

the laws,and make darn sure that you are right,before approaching them, or contesting

their claim.

Over the years I have gained access to timber sales through private land ,where the

Forest Service and others have failed. Attitude and respect goes a long way when

dealing with land owners. I have actually got paid by the land owner to build a road and

get exclusive use a lot of times.

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By all means don't take the law into your own hands (self defense is fine ) This is not the 1800's where the nearest hangin tree solved all problems. Sure could solve a lot of problems at times though :4chsmu1:

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HAhahaha =as perscribed by law---you may match any force utilized against you in resistance to removal-in other words violence begets violence and please REREAD as NEVER advocate blowing folks away,unless legally warranted for personal protection. Had guns pulled on me--on my claims-dozens a times--end result is/was nobodies biz but my own--hahaha-John

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HAhahaha =as perscribed by law---you may match any force utilized against you in resistance to removal-in other words violence begets violence and please REREAD as NEVER advocate blowing folks away,unless legally warranted for personal protection. Had guns pulled on me--on my claims-dozens a times--end result is/was nobodies biz but my own--hahaha-John

What in the L are you doing to have people pull guns on you ? I know nobodies business. :tisk-tisk:

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I think anyone with real life experience would agree that if a fellow has a gun pulled on him "dozens a times" he is doing something very wrong. This happnss rarely to people who act normally and have basic social skills. And JHO seems to be misinterpreting the right to defend ones self in a big way. Not only has it been misintrerpreted but then applied to public land. The whole concept is flaky.

Of course we know that we have no right to remove anyone from public land for any reason. We also know that we are breaking the law if we try. And anyone that has ever had a claim knows that people just don't whip out a gun when you approach them.

Normal folks don't see a need for violence or force. Not to "protect their claim" and not to "jump a claim". If a fellow is seeing a pattern where people repeatedly feel the need to draw their gun on him while standing on public land he is conducting himself very poorly.

I have run many dozens of guys off my claims over the years. They are close to the border in a remote area that is famous for violence. The people that live here are prone to violence and are often ex cons and guys that are a little on the shady side. The law is impotent and could care less about two jackasses shooting each other over a stupid gold claim. Still I have never heard of anyone drawing a gun on a claim owner or a claim owner drawing a gun on a hygrader.

If you ever find yourself looking down the barrel of a gun on public land more than once it might pay to rethink your strategies. It is not everyone else that ihas a screw loose. It is you.

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Look at any old map of CA and you will see roads that one would assume were public thoroughfares yet they are now closed because they are on private land. This was discussed a few years ago in depth on this forum. When the BLM came into existence, it took over management from several agencies and much of the land was indeed surrounded by private land with no deeded access. Liability issues and public trashing prompted the landowners to put up gates.

Then, of course, the forest service decided to put up their own gates, for whatever reason, to limit access.

Today, the BLM is being pressured by environmental agencies to limit access to millions of acres in 11 or 12 western states because the sage grouse has been deemed to be endangered,

The times they are a changing.

Edited by Dakota Slim

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You had the Ponderosa Rd. which I believe ran through most of California and was a fire road with public access.The state abandoned the road and then the signs and fences went up.In the motherlode gold country of California most people whose property backs up to or borders BLM ground think they own it.In my county(Calaveras) a good 80 percent of BLM ground is landlocked.

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Dave,

The same situation exists in places here. In Pecos canyon the road runs along the canyon with a narrow strip of private land on either side. The National Forest just a few yards beyond the road is vast. Millions of acres. The mountains are huge and impassable. The riges are 12,000 feet high. There are only a half dozen roads for access and they are ALL controlled by a locked gate going across 100 yards of private land.

The gates have a big wad of locks on them. You have to figure out how to get a key. Bigshots get them for doing favors, buddies share them, Chevron has exclusive access for prospecting. Hunters who draw a hunt often have to pay someone for a key....to get off the road and cross onto NFS.

The land situation has been that way forever. Only in the last 15 years or so has it been an issue. But it is an issue now. You must really fight to get in there. And it isn't fair that it is only easily accessable to corporations and a select few people. Indeed they are using it as their private game preserve.

The situation in Pecos Canyon is similar to many spots in the west. There are some difficult issues to deal with. For a recreational prospector it makes things much more difficult to find a little gold.

...on the flip side there are advantages to having to fight to get in an area. A lot of trouble means fewer people. Once I gain access to a spot I just LOVE those locked gates behind me. And someone is going to have to really treat me good for a copy of that key too. That is just the way the game is played nowdays whether it is fair or not.

Edited by Bedrock Bob

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Bedrock Bob,

Thanks for being the voice of reason. I think all the talk about pulling guns and shooting at each other makes us all sound crazy and just gives a bad name to prospectors. That will just be another reason for them to take away more of our rights. Nothing wrong with carrying when your out. But people, please be real. This isn't the wild west anymore!

By the way Bob, totally off topic here. How did it feel to finally kill The Governor? :yesss:

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it's not that far from the "wild west"......

Here in northern CA we have to "Pack" just to go out in the hills to prospect.

The dope growers actually patrol with AK 47s!

You never know when you are going to walk into a grow site. I've done it and have had rifles in my face. 10 feet away!

Kind of scary when you find yourself in the middle of a grow ....

Feels like you are trespassing on public land..

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Bedrock Bob,

Thanks for being the voice of reason. I think all the talk about pulling guns and shooting at each other makes us all sound crazy and just gives a bad name to prospectors. That will just be another reason for them to take away more of our rights. Nothing wrong with carrying when your out. But people, please be real. This isn't the wild west anymore!

By the way Bob, totally off topic here. How did it feel to finally kill The Governor? :yesss:

I waited 18 months to see that SOB get what he deserved. After three episodes I told my son if they didn't kill him I was going to Georgia and do it myself.

Everyone had a crack at that rascal but just didn't get it done. If we allow evil to exist because we are too weak or afraid to kill it we make it stronger. That is a constant. Zombies are nothing except dangerous animals. Our enemy is evil and that is the domain of man.

So how many have you killed? Why? Will that matter anymore or will it matter more than ever?

Edited by Bedrock Bob

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Its completely different. We have to abide by the law. The Cartels don't give a crap about there growers and if they die or go to jail for the rest of their lives.

Carrying just makes us feel more comfortable. I do it as well. I am glad you didn't pull out your gun or you would be fertilizer right now. A single pistol isn't much against four AK's in the woods. It is terrible that we feel like we are trespassing in our own land and I wish more was being done about it. Now we know how the Native Americans felt.

By all means if you gotta defend yourself against a threat then do it. I just don't think talking about pulling guns on trespassers is the way to go about handling that situation. :m2c:

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I waited 18 months to see that SOB get what he deserved. After three episodes I told my son if they didn't kill him I was going to Georgia and do it myself.

Everyone had a crack at that rascal but just didn't get it done. If we allow evil to exist because we are too weak or afraid to kill it we make it stronger. That is a constant. Zombies are nothing except dangerous animals. Our enemy is evil and that is the domain of man.

So how many have you killed? Why? Will that matter anymore or will it matter more than ever?

Amen brother!

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You know there is a 'trump' card being played in many areas that keeps you from shooting someone on your claim. A trespasser just has to tell you they are hunting for meteorites and all 'bets are off' as they say. (Some who use this will keep the gold they find without permission because they feel 'entitled' to anything on public land, claimed or not.)

If you posted this topic in the meteorite forum you would be getting different responses. Basically to a meteorite hunter 'public land is public.'

Don't shoot at or kill a meteorite hunter! (Prove he is a claim jumper and doesn't know how to spell the word meteorite.)

Don't let your dog bite a meteorite hunter!

You could catch a guy with a pocket full of gold from your claim (discovered after you kill him) and if he utters to you that he is hunting for meteorites and it is public land then you have a BIG problem. His defense attorney or the attorney for his estate is going to make your use of deadly force very, very costly.

Post a sign ... All meteorites and gold has been found. :thumbsupanim

Mitchel

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I fail to see the difference between a pot farmer with a gun and a claim owner with a gun. Or a rancher for that matter. The last thing any of them want is a problem. They are onlly protecting their interests. All of them suffer a loss if someone gets frisky with a firearm

You never know what is going to happen the next minute.That is why I'm always armed. But by strapping on the gun you are setting a whole different world in motion. Anyone who does not have a very clear and very real goal for carrying the weaponn is a liability to themselves and everyone around them.

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