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I am going to buy a big rifle to hunt oryx and elk. My .270 is just not enough for Oryx at 300 yards. I'm trading in the Bushmaster varmint rifle (the coyote washing gun).

I have settled on the 30-06 cartridge rather than .300 WinMag or 7mm RemMag.

The stalks can be long distance on your knees or belly and the shots are long. I like the Savage 110 Police Rifle with the 20" match bull barrel. I want a high quality shooter in chrome moly steel with a durable synthetic stock.

I have always liked these rifles. I had a 22-250 in this model and it shot one hole at 200 yards. A friend has a .308 that will hit a 12" steel plate at 750 yards just about every time.

Any of you guys shoot long range sniper type guns? Do you have a tack driver set up to shoot steel plates at 1000 yards? What do you shoot? Why do you shoot it?

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Exactly!

Anyone who has qualified in the military, shot an M1 Garand, or even looked down the barrel at a 12" plate at 1000 yards will immediately see the fundamental problems involved.

In case anyone is interested in how the military actually qualified, the range and the scores here is a link to a discussion board that references it. They simply did not shoot a 12" Bull at 100 yards. The farthest distance was 500 yards in prone position. The 1000 yard target was 36" and was not used in qualification. No man who claims to be able to hit a 12" Bull with over 90% accuracy at a 1000 yards is believable. Just more fantasy BS.

http://www.leatherneck.com/forums/showthread.php?1730-Question-Qualifying-Scores-M1-Rifle-1951

All military qualifications are written down.It is pretty easy to debunk these wild exaggerations.

Does anyone here have any experience shooting accurate long range weapons? Whaddya like? Why?

Edited by Bedrock Bob
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My dad shot competitive M-1 shooting for the Air Force in the 60's or so. Targets were 6 x 9 feet or so. They looked like a Postage stamp out there.

30-06 is one of the best rounds ever made by man for a real rifle. 1/2 inch plate is no match for it. He got kicked off a few silhouette meets for punching holes in there Iron Pigs, Goat and Rams. Tisk Tisk. Only thing that is better that I know of is the 50 Cal BMG. Guess what? It's just a exact scaled up 30-06!

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I agree Homie. The 300 WinMag and 7MM RemMag are just glorified 30-06 that use a bunch more powder burn out a barrel fast and only get 180 fps more speed. The stuff is expensive and an '06 will run neck and neck with either of them.

I see no need for another caliber. I have dies, brass, bullets and you can use any powder on earth in the 06. You can shoot a super wide range of bullets too. They have tried and tried to come up with something better. You can use a lot more resources and make a lot bigger BANG but you can't do a lot better than 30-06.

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My son shot his oryx with a 1902 Springfield. Those old barrels had four grooves and looked kinda "square" at the muzzle. They used those old barrels for three wars.

When I got it you could not put two shots within a foot of each other. I cleaned all the copper out and polished the bore. We installed some good mounts bedded to that rough machine work and a decent scope. With good ammo off the bench it shot 6" groups at 350 yards. Not to shabby for a 110 year old rifle.

He hit the oryx square in the shoulder with a 180 gr. Nosler at 150 yards. It broke one shoulder, crossed the chest cavity and STOPPED inside the shoulder on the opposite side. The impact threw that big animal to the ground. He still got up and went 20 yards before falling over for good. I could not imagine a large range bull stopping a 30-06 like that.

Anyhoo, the old Springfield was awesome! And it was so freaking awesome I'm selling my plinking gun and I'm gonna get me one with a short match barrel to play with. We have several hunts ahead of us and a heavy hitter will be fun to use out there in that endless grass.

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BB, 30.06 is considered "light" for big game hunting in Alaska by some, but I have shot and killed(thats the important part right?) 12 moose...all with my old model 700 in 30.06. I use 150gr Noslers for the most part. I have never tried real long range shooting, to be honest the longest shot I've taken was about 400 yards on a caribou. Got em too! I've talked with old timers who used it with plenty of success on grizzly as well.

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I agree Dave. And the Rem 700 in 30-06 set the standard for rifles worldwide. You don't need much more horsepower than that if you can place your shot.

I have hunted with a Husqvarna mountain gun in 243 all my life. I have had great success out to 400 yards on everything up to deer. I hunt elk with bow and muzzle loader. But oryx are a whole different ball game. We saw fellers with all sorts of big artillery out there. Lapua magnums and .50 cal rigs. All sorts of Weatherby safari guns. Ruger number ones in 45 with strange cases as big as your thumb....

I came away from the whole deal knowing that a pair of knee pads and a 30-06 is just what you need to get it done. Up in Alaska I could just imagine....like Africa.

I shoot a Rem 700 VS in 243. It is my "go to" rifle if I am not shooting the 50 cal smokestick. Remington is a classic and I like that. And the target grade guns will drive tacks way out there. If I can't find that particular Savage rifle a Remington is what Ill probably wind up with. It is tough to find the match grade guns in a long action nowdays. That is what I have my sights set on.

I have all the goodies for it and a fine scope off the Bushmaster. High dollar rings and bases, the whole kit and caboodle. Brass, bullets, powder and primers all on the shelf. I can't wait to find me a rifle and start tossing them out there.

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BB you shouldn't be so hasty to label someone's experience as "fantasy BS" .....what I posted was not the qualifying for the recruits in boot camp.

What I posted above in post #2 was my experience on the rifle team I spent three years on. Our qualifying was much different than the boot camp people. So was our firing positions and our distances. Fifty four years have passed and I can't remember all the finer points on the scoring.

Homey was more or less correct about the size of the targets, that was the target frames and not the bulls eye in the center. At 1,000 yards with the M1 the front site had to be on the target frame supports and the bulls eye sitting on top of the center post of the site. Most important was knowing how many clicks on the elevation of the rear site.

FYI this is my own experience and not copied or coming from Snopes.

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Gotcha Don. 92% on a 12" bull at a thousand yards with open sights. That is quite a feat Don! I am impressed!

I bet you were standing offhand in a windstorm while ants bit at your ankles too!

Someday when I grow up I hope to be that good a shot.

Right now, with 40 years of solid shooting experience and a top notch rifle I can reliably make 500 yard shots on a 12" bull from a sitting position. Prone I can do better but I don't practice that way. It is not practical for hunting.

From the bench I can shoot a 1000 yard man sized sillouhette almost every time. With my best rifle in no wind and everything perfect. The target is 18" wide and 24" high with a little spot for a head. There is no way I could assume any natural riflemans position and hit a 12" bull at that range. I do not posess a rifle with the accuracy to hold that pattern 92% of the time. Still my rifle shoots much better than me.

I make up for my poor marksmanship with the other skills required as a hunter. I employ these skills until my marksmanship is adequate for the task.

In the field a pair of knee pads and gloves are the difference between a trophy at 400 yards and a trophy at 1000. There is no way I would shoot an animal that far out anyway. I think Ill hunt em in a little closer and pass on any shot over about 400 yards. And I will carry that "wimpy" shooting stick to shoot off of and dial in the exact parallax adjustment on that "wimpy" scope. Just to make sure I get a clean shot.

Offhand shooting at a 12" bull at 100 yards is a mighty challenge. 92% at 100 yards slow fire is just below super human. Prone at 300 is good shooting. From a concrete bench with a good rifle a thousand yards is a big challenge. Even if you have the elevation doped and there is no wind.

Edited by Bedrock Bob
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Don,

I am 18 again whenever I smell a woman's hair.

I shoot a lot better now that I am older. I can hunt a lot better to although it hurts more now. Its when I get to thinking I'm 18 again that I begin to bullschit myself about what a badass I used to be. Something about all that good smellin hair and flesh. It is my weakness.

Others get a whiff of bore solvent and they can shoot like hickock45. They tell tall tales about shooting beer bottles at a half mile with a pellet gun.

I think we smell ourselves stupid about things we would like to think we did sometimes. Its not really a sin or a fault but for some reason we can't always get real with it. Some fellows use this preconditioned behavior to take cheap shots at us.

Sometimes when I smell a girl and I am busy being 18 again some young rooster comes around and reminds me I'm old. Bustin up my fantasy and disrespecting all those notches on my pistol. Pisses me off it does.

Has that ever happened to you Don?

Edited by Bedrock Bob
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When I finally got around to buying my own rifle for deer I settled on a browning a bolt in 30-06. Synthetic stock, matte finish no sights put a nice leupold scope on it and a sling.

I'm not a long distance shooter and very seldom shoot anything over 200 yards. So far it has knocked down all the deer and elk I hunted.

150 grain nosler for deer and 180 for elk.

I have my dads pre 64 winchester in 308 which could use a newer nicer scope but I don't want to change the set up he had.

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When I was 11 my dad bought me a Rem model 700 ,243. Had three inches cut of the stock, and four of the Barrel. That thing sounded Like a Howitzer going off. Kicked me around like a Mule for sure. With 4x9 I could hit a 1" Rock at 150 yards easy! He was in the Tucson Varmint hunters Club and I was his test. If you could hit the same target I could he would take you on a Hunt. He had people lined up. We would go out and Dad would Say, Jim Shoot the rock. I did. The person would try to shoot it and make or brake. We seen all kinds of Firearms out there. Most Old Mousers some Kick Azz and some just worn out . Some off the wall guns and some kicked Azz and some not. Back then it was all in fun. Boy did I learn what works or not.. Did you know A good Mouser is Almost as good as a Model 70 Winchester if set up right? The Mouser can't do that the model 70 can. My dad had one barreled for .375 HH and that one was a Kicker. With half loads it would put me Rolled over on my back at ll. Full Loads would nock me back and then some. God, I loved shooting that thing.

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Do that today Homey and the entire group would be arrested as home grown terrorist....

Yea, Militia For Sure.!!!! That is why O is taking guns away from folks that know how to use them.

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I remember when you could walk into the Hardware Store and they had a Barrel full of the old Springfields barrel down in the bucket. $30.00 they was! Big Money! Dad snatched up more then a few and Sporterized the old puppies. Chopped of some wood here and there, Added some Peep Sites and UUUULA! You had a Deer rifle. All he was concerned about was if they had some Riffling sharp and clear down the Bore. Wish I had one.

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Chris,

Could you expound on the 300 short mag round?

I have been told it is the cats meow. There are a bunch of slick rifles chambered for the WSM but very few in 30-06. I figure the expense of dies and new brass is really the only benefit I would have for staying with 30-06.

Does it wear out brass? Barrels? I know it is an inherently consistent round and guys love the accuracy. How does it compare to the 30-06 in terms of energy at distance?

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I think it a good compromise a fast, flat .30 caliber that holds up well in a cross wind.

I don't shoot enough to justify reloading IMO so I can't comment on the brass or barrels.

I do keep it clean and use a product meant to remove the copper called Wipe Out.

A good friend is a professional game culler and lifelong shooter he recommend the WSM as a 'all around" suitable for all North American dangers game.

I use factory loads, Fusion made by Federal and like the .165's ballistics another good compromise between the .150 and .180.

About a 10" drop @ 300 yards with 5" drift in a 10 mph wind, it retains about 2250 foot pounds of energy and is still skipping along at over 2500 fps. At least that what the charts tell me.

What I do know is I can hit a paper plate at 400 yards repeatedly with shooting sticks from a variety of positions.

When I'm in deep cover up close I like the old Savage lever action .300 in .180 grain, iron sights.

"B L A M" and its the chicken quivers :)

FWIW I did shoot a BAR .06 for many years and loved that gun.

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Thanks Chris!

I like the Tikka T3 lite. It is comparable in price to the Savage 110fp or the Remington 700 SPS TAC. They would all shoot button holes but the Tikka would be much easier to stalk with.They make a bull barrel varminter Id love to have but it is not available in the US.

Those Finnish guns are sweet actions. I shot the Sweedish Husqvarna all my life. The Saakos were the only thing in their class.

You can get those guns in 30-06. It is tough to find a Savage or Remington police gun in this chambering. Ill be looking a lot closer at the Tikka T3.

The Savage shoots sweet but they are just strange guns. They feel awkward and don't seem to come together right. I'm not knocking them. But they are different.

The Remington is perfect and it has a hogue overmolded stock. Grippy stuff. I think the triggers are better than Savage too. They still make them and you can get one if you are willing to wait.

The Tikka does not have the heavy barrel but it will shoot with the others easily. I don't like the stock as well as the Remington. But the action is beyond compare.

To me it is a toss up soo far. But bby the first of the year I will have a new rifle.

Edited by Bedrock Bob
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Well until a few years ago I only hunted with Savage Model 99E .300 Savage 180's. I have 2. One is a take down model manufactured back in the 1930's with the old buck horn iron sights ... that was my grand father's and then my father's and then mine. When I was 14 my dad gave me the 99E with gold trigger and 4x scope ... commemorative model that he got straight from Savage ... Dad worked for the Atlantic Lumber Co ... they sold all the walnut to Savage for the stocks. As I said I used the 99E up until a few years back when I started using a borrowed Remington 760 pump rifle ... not the carbine. Then I got a Rem7600 rifle as part of an inheritance from an old friend and fishing partner. I took the old scope off it and put Williams peep rear and Williams red fiber optic front ... that is the gun I go to now and will continue to go to for most of my hunting. Most of my shots are under 150 yards and many have been well under 100 yards. Remington 30-06 165 grain PSP rounds will drill 1.5 " for me from a rest with the peep ... I do have to do it before the third cup of coffee though or I end up with 5" groups ... which on a eastern whitetail is still a kill one shot to the boiler room. Next thing I am going to do is take the Aimpoint red dot off the Savage 99E and put it on the older Remington 760 also in 30-06.

I have to agree with you Bob ... Geez am I really saying that? ... the 30-06 is a hard round to beat ... dependable and adequate for a clean kill on anything the USA has to offer. JMHO of course! Did I really say I agreed with Bedrock Bob! :yesss::old: Who'd a 'thunk' that was possible!?

Mike F

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