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Push, Push and Push some more. No Guns on Public lands.


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Is there a problem with the rule?

I don't see one.

Another bunch of hype. They post signs at all the trashy problem spots. No dumping. No off road travel. No camping. Now you are going to see a "No Shooting" sign too. The way people junk up the "shooting spots" it might make them spread out a bit. And there IS conflict with other users in a lot of places.

BLM is the only land that you can do just about anything, anywhere, anytime. In many spots it has become a problem. They have the full authority to manage these spots if they need to.

If they close shooting in a high impact area then they should designate a good spot in that area to shoot. They should manage the problem rather than simply restrict an area. I will bet a big nugget that they will do just that. High impact areas should have a spot to shoot safely and marked as such where the bird watchers don't "freak out".

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There are a few places here on the Divide that have become public shooting areas. One such place is on one of my claims. The answer is easy. Get a group together and go clean them up. I do this all the time. . When I got a few volunteers to help clean the claim shooting range, it was amazing to see how long that area stayed clean. Same goes for the other unofficial shooting ranges here. We certainly don't need any additional laws or regulations... There are way way to many already. Next they will say noise from ORV's is scaring the petunias out of Sierra Club bug watchers, on and on it will go till they finally decree that humans expel to much CO2 in the forests.

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Ok, Township Yooohooo is up set by people shooting just out of town and the old betties and Yuppies hit the deck every time they hear a gun shot.

A high power rifle round can reach out Oh, say 5 miles.

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/learning/hunter_education/homestudy/firearms/bullets.phtml

So knowing folks will do there traditional drive a few miles out of town to do there thing, they decide to do a 20 mile buffer zone around the town. Just in Case! How many Hunting Areas have you just lost? As the Township Yooohooo gets larger the Ring Expands. All it will take is a complaint or two in any location to shut down miles and miles of Ground.

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Addressing the problems of our growing cities surrounded by "free and open" land is a huge task. There are big problems. Local governments are dealing with a huge cost due to the conflict.

We can simply say that any policy under this administration is an attempt at disarming the American patriot. Or we can see it as an attempt to address the real issues of a population explosion in the vast western USA.

How you address a problem is the task for our government agencies.

How would you fellers address it? If we put aside our fears of being disarmed for a moment and try to solve the larger issue at hand you will see there is some sense to the rule. We all know that firearms can not be prohibited on public land as it is specifically designated for that purpose. And we can all read the words of the rule and see that it gives very limited authority for closure and only after a process to try and correct it.

Everything is not a conspiracy by Obama to get your guns. If you want to spin everything every department does as part of a larger conspiracy that is groovy too. But at some point someone needs to address some real problems and stop playing politics....Which is really what the Obama fear thing is all about.

Edited by Bedrock Bob
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I think that a lot of the problem also lies with the city boys getting out to play with their toys and I have seen the shooting get pretty wild, with alcohol along so as to have empty containers for targets and left laying there when they were done.. I was prospecting down in Salome last year when wife and I heard bullets come whistling by ( Not a good feeling ) Shooters were clueless that we were out there.

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I will say this,...

all the local boys take care of our "recreational" areas.

It's the "weekend warrior" of the large cities that show no respect.

...and to top it all off, WE have to live by "their" rules. Ya know, the

way "they" control us with their votes. "They" have already screwed

up Nevada, after destroying Calif. :nutty:

It's a different world out here in the Sierra Nevada Range. :old:

So far, I can still spit on the ground without some screwball

cryin' to his mamma. :rolleyes:

The only reason that there are trash cans in our campgrounds,

is because "Flat landers" won't take their crap home. :grr01:

Don't trust anybody who lives at under 3,000 ft. elev. :brows:

Edited by Steel Pan
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BB, you truly live in another world........ The federally owned land out here is far from being overrun by encroachment from the urban areas and the only population growth in serious numbers is from the huge illegal population here with more and more coming all the time from the very obvious porous border, then they start making babies, this is actually giving the urban areas some serious growth issues. anytime the government intrudes into our free space or use of that space it only has invited more and more intrusion of our freedom. and stifling regulations are being added at a faster pace then ever in the history of the country. The FS has arbitrarily closed thousands of miles of roads in western forests..... BB they are not on our side and the sooner you come to the real truth, maybe the sooner you will help do something about it. Cleaning up shooting ranges on BLM or FS land is but a small part of fighting back.

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You seem to not realize the problems we face with expansion in these desert cities out west Steve. Cleanup by the users is a great idea and will certainly eliminate the need for closure in some areas. In others there needs to be management. I don't see a whole lot to gripe about here. I do see an effort to politicize a departmental decision.

It is just the way I feel about it Steve. I know you may disagree and that is your business. I hope that some day you can figure out how to deal with my opinions.

It only makes sense to close an area to a particular activity if it limits other users, is a safety hazard, or if it is destructive. Some places definitely fit this description. Whatever the problem they should be able to address it. We expect them to manage this land well. The rule is simply not a threat to shooters or hunters. In my humble opinion it is about time they started to manage public land rather than monitor the dissapearance of it.

...there is one more of my opinions that may be difficult for you to deal with. I am hoping it will not cause too much anxiety. It is just one man's opinion.

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Can you provide info on the expressed problems of expanding populations of western Desert cities. The only large problem I know of is the Marines trying to take away a very large part of the desert near Twentynine Palms that has been used by the OHV crowd for many years and will kill one of the premier off road races in the country. That is the case of expanding the government, certainly not expansion of urban population.

Yes BB, it certainly is your opinion , but problem is when you preach your opinion you fill it with facts that are just not correct.

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Again you seem to be unaware of the problems and are asking me to fill in the blanks for you

Every major western city that is surrpunded by public land has an area of ruination around it. Trash, a network of trails and erosion, dead animals, medical waste and other stuff. There are spots where people shoot that are close to residences and roads. There is a HUGE activity level in some areas. Every major western city has a stretch of dangerous desert where many users are simply not responsible. Some users are downright criminal.

Albuquerque, El Paso, Las Cruces, Phoenix, Tucson, and a hundred other cities receive millions in funding to help minimize problems but spend billions dealing with the trash, crime, and trouble calls.

So managing "free and open land" by the millions of acres surrounding large cities is a HUGE ISSUE IN THE SOUTHWEST.

You may not have realized this before but now you do

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Reminds me of my last Deer hunt. I scouted out this one are for months. Oh Boy deer it had. Never seen anyone around ever. Drove out there and Set camp about 11 O'clock. Kept seeing lights all night long. Woke up in the morning and there was no less then 7 trucks within feet of me. One was parked on my fire pit. That was the last time I went Deer hunting.

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If you really want to see a mess on BLM land take a ride out in the desert where the Brenda RV parks are it seems to be a community dumping ground for old trailers tires refrigerators you name it Now this would be a very good place for BLM to flat hand out some hefty fines ! have been out in the desert where I would swear no man has been before and I go around a corner and find an old rusted out car.

I found the same problems in NV in a trip from ELY to Parumph cars that broke down just got left out in the desert. Folks need to be made to realize that the desert is not their private dumping ground and pay dearly if doing so.

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From the original post

Gun owners who have historically been able to use public lands for target practice would be barred from potentially millions of acres under new rules drafted by the Interior Department, the first major move by the Obama administration to impose limits on firearms.

Officials say the administration is concerned about the potential clash between gun owners and encroaching urban populations who like to use same land for hiking and dog walking.

"It's not so much a safety issue. It's a social conflict issue," said Frank Jenks, a natural resource specialist with Interior's Bureau of Land Management, which oversees 245 million acres. He adds that urbanites "freak out" when they hear shooting on public lands

I thought this post was about taking away guns from people on BLM and FS lands........... People everywhere, especially the low information voters look to open land as their trash pit, this is noting new at all and has nothing to do with urban sprawl, it's been going on since before we were an itch in our grandpaw's groin.......if you are at all interested in stopping this infringement on our rights, get proactive and go out and clean up some shooting areas. it makes for a positive statement.......

They are just taking a non issue and figuring another way around to keep law abiding citizens from being armed on public land......... Has nothing to do with urban sprawl. Low information voters have always looked at open land as a good place to dump trash, commit crimes, abandon dead cars and enjoy a small slice of anarchy.....this proposal is just one more attempt to keep honest citizens from excersizing their right to carry loaded weapons on government land. All attempts need to be met with resistance.

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Bob, I've always enjoyed your creative approach to debates relative to government control encroaching more and more on our lives ... I was "fortunate" enough to have a very close relative very high up in the government who said, not only what is happening now was coming, but what's next and next after that, and for 20 years his statements have not been wrong yet ...They weren't guesses nor predictions ... They were revelations of fact and have not been wrong, ever ...Not once... I always poo-pooed what he was reporting from his meetings in Washington DC ...But 20 years ago they laid it out and folks who now keep rolling over expecting some vasaline just don't get it ... Bob, Your observations on some fair and benevolent sperm emanating from Washington is 2000% off base ... You are a good and entertaining corespondent, but your gullibility is something that needs to be turned out ... We are at war and your denials of that fact are no longer amusing... Sorry, Dude ... I respect you and your opinions, but you are wrong on the heart of this issue and the reality of the attack on our country from within ... Ron

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This whole deal is like the need to change the immigration laws,it is all

just an excuse to ignore current laws,and grab more power.

It is already illegal to dump trash,litter,drive off undesignated trails, shoot

within a certain distance of homes,camps,or improvments. It is also currently,

illegal to use BLM land for a shooting range without approval and permits. It

is illegal to hunt in restricted areas,closed to hunting. The whole problem is

lack of law enforcement, and patroling by the BLM ,local law, and other agencies.

Dreaming up a new scheme to grab more land,under those excuses, is not going

to solve anything. We already have more laws and rules than ,anyone could keep

track of. This is just a piss poor way of politicians to justify their existance.

They don't enforce common sense laws now,what makes anyone think they will

enforce any new rules or regs? The common practice now is just shut it all down,

instead of doing their jobs. They will use any excuse to justify those actions too.

Here is just an example, we have a shooting range here on BLM land. It is an

approved range too. It looks like the city dump,and every improvement has been

destroyed,or vandalized ,as fast as they are built. All the BLM,Forest Service, City,

County,and Park Service cops use that range,yet no one has ever been caught

breaking the law there. I hate to say it,but some of the worst offenders are off duty

cops. Yet these same guys will throw the book at some tourist for coming through

town one mile per hour over the limit.

What we really need is ,for some some cops and rangers to get off their butts and

do their jobs.

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You are right on as usual Sawmill. The answer to the problem is not about more rules but more enforcement. And we all know it is easier for a bureaocracy to make rules than manage enforcement.

If you buy into the incremental degradation of our gun rights line there is sinister design in almost everything....even the patterns in the carpet it seems. But from my point of view I see it as a lame attempt by ineffective managers to address a problem that their political bosses thrust upon them. I don't know what more we could expect from the situation.

I am not as gullible as some may assume. I am all for the BLM having the authority to close a specific area if needed. In some areas IT IS NEEDED. We are always going to be fighting battles between our way of life and change. If the police are tasked to enforce a "no shooting" perimeter around a town and respond to trouble calls at a popular spot then the BLM should be allowed, within reason to post it. And by law they ARE allowed to post it. Just like any other activity on public land they can manage it.

And people across the west are screaming for them to do that. There is HUGE pressure from the public on both sides of the issues. There is a legitimate argument that DOES need to be considered on both sides. We all expect our government to be responsive to our concerns. Even us ultra left wing liberals.

It is governments job to try and find solutions to problems. There are some that believe it is their job to oppose anything our, government does. My guess is that 97% of those people support the new political minority in this country. And they are claiming all sorts of half baked lies that only the most simple minds could believe. If there is a "war" going on here then no doubt I am not an ally of the right.

Edited by Bedrock Bob
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