Deep Mode? Does Audio have to be set to deep also?

[Relichunter2]

Hey guys,

I have a question on the settings on the 4500 front and back audio setting. When running a larger mono coil what I mean by large is 17 and above. When the mode is set to deep, should the back audio setting be set to deep also for better signal feed back on deep targets ? I usually have it set to sensitive extra, but at times I wonder if I am missing the extra edge by not running both front and back panel settings on deep. Any advice is welcome....

[klunker]

Deep mode on the front only sets the detector to the presets on the back.(on the screen) The factory sets these to their best guess for large deep targets. When you change these settings the deep mode will go to your changes unless you hold the off/on switch on to return to factory settings. Deep in the audio settings has nearly always been to noisy for me. In my opinion inverting the response is a unnecessary as I am listening for any minute variation in the threshold.

It's hard to have the patients to stop and fiddle with your detector when you find a good target but doing so is some well spent time.

You guys please correct me or clarify this if I'm wrong.

[49goldrushtradingpost]

Klunker,

I tried the deep mode front panel and back panel ran audio in deep. The first thing I noticed was that the signal and sound changes from in this setting. I also found it a bit noisy although it does appear like you get a bit more depth from the deep mode. I changed it back to General mode , Enhance, Fixed, Mono. Back panel was gain 13, stabilizer 3, sensitive extra, audio normal. For the ground I was working I found these settings much better and more stable..I scored a nice 5.6 gram nugget this morning..my 3 day skunk streak has ended . I was using the `18" Commander Mono , the nugget was only 2 inches deep.

[El Dorado]

As usual, Klunker is right on target. The absolute most important thing in making adjustments is to make the threshold smooth and stable. And yes, when you do get a repeatable target, play around then and see what the differences are. You might be surprised that the gain at 12 and above with everything else on simmer to try and make it quiet may just lose that same target with the gain on 6 or 7 and motion at normal with the audio on boost......There is just not a perfect setting, it can change with the day, the ground or the coil. Now, if I could only find a nugget.........

[klunker]

RH2 also try your motion in very slow. If your not there already it may hep get rid of a lot of noise but if you do that pay VERY CLOSE ATTENTION.

A 5.6 gram nugget sounds nice but most of mine are gold nuggets. What other minerals is gram associated with? What was its weight in ozt? Do you fracture gram with a graham cracker? Ya, I know I'll be in trouble over this.

Nice find.

[Relichunter2]

Klunker..

Thanks for the great advice, I did run it in very slow..and found the threshold much better. Ohh the nugget...it was a gold nugget and thankfully no bear nuggets... . But I just begun drinking my first cup of coffee...graham crackers... maybe it's a generational thing lol . El Dorado, I am begining to get this machine and the settings, the main thing is stable threshold, to many variables out there to ask for specific settings, just gotta play with the settings to get the stability, and dig all targets. In fact this 5.6 gram one I found, was so close to the surface 2" that it made what I would describe a sound iron would make with the Mono. Not that nice smooth, soft signal gold made, so when I saw it , I was totally surprised.

[klunker]

Yes, it's probably a generational thing. You old f--ts see things much differently.

I'm eagerly waiting for you to report finding a klunker- numerous troy ounces.

[shep]

Fred, just my .02 worth. I very rarely have used deep audio (too noisy for me), usually normal and sometimes quiet, if in a noisy area and looking.

Threshold smooth and stable- yes. I'm not so sure on the high gain and low stabilizer setting. Never tried it cause I heard wasn't wise?????? I leave stabilizer setting at factory, adjust gain till close and fine-tune w/ stabilizer. Just my way, if it works for you might try your way.

Shep

[FlakMagnet]

I agree about not lowering the Stabilizer.

It tends to lose some signal information when you do that.

Factory preset (I think it's 8). is the lowest I use.

I also sometimes like to run the detector just a little 'ragged.'

(I love Deep audio if the conditions allow)

Sometimes, not always, you are lucky enough to pick up just a touch more depth.

As everyone probably knows, the best setting to run is Normal.

Everything else has a slight trade-off somewhere.

One of the most valuable habits an operator can get into as El Dorado alluded to,

is to try different settings before you dig a target.

It looks so easy when you read it,

but in the field it is the last thing you want to do,

you just want to see what's under your coil.

[Relichunter2]

Hey guys, after about a year of operating my ML 4500 I am starting to get more comfortable and confident with the settings. I was also fortunate enough to hit some nice patches to confirm that I have been using the correct settings. But still I am always changing them to the conditions. Shep, Flakmagnet.....you guys got me thinking now on the Stabilizer setting .. I surely don't want to lose dept...I have been running it at 3 because it seems to quite it down a bit and I want to get maximum dept..running it to low, could I be losing signal response to the deeper targets? Regardless...I will run it at FP and see how it goes and deal with some of the noise. I find most good targets give a more drawn out signal rather than a quick chirp. Thanks again guys for your suggestions. Shep..I also run on Quite mode at times...I found this audio setting helps in hot ground. Happy Hunting...

[FlakMagnet]

Maybe you could wait until you get what you think is a promising signal

and then mess with the Stabilizer settings to see if you can hear a difference.

When you hear it for yourself it makes a big difference in confidence.

And, since most of these suggestions are based on generalities,

it may be that you find an even better setting for the area you are in.

Good hunting...

[Relichunter2]

Flagmagnet,

Again, great suggestion....I was going to just up the stabilizer and be done with it...but rather than doing that first I will do just what you suggested. This way I can see what the best response will be and at which Stabilizer setting. Slowly I learn....maybe in a few years I will be at 50 % with the 4500....that's what I most enjoy about this forum, learning and getting good advice. Thanks again...

R.H. or GRTP

[Specieman]

Stabilizer at 3 will loose depth for sure. It'll be quite for certain, but on targets too. Im not saying this to be smart but to get across what I mean, "I wish everyone ran their 4500 and 5000 on 3".

[El Dorado]

You should really try to run the stabilizer within a click or two of the factory preset....(or higher but not at the expense of a very low gain)

[Relichunter2]

Thanks for the pointers...in the begining I was going by the Tip in the instruction book for the 4500. By turning the stabilizer control close to the minimum 3 or less the threshold will be very stable, but you will lose a lot of sensitivity to smaller targets. This can be a desirable feature in certain scenarios, such as looking for larger nuggets in a high trash area. I will test a few targets and see what kind of audible response I get on dept.. after I clear an area of trash i put on the 20" NF Mono R, as I want the most dept I can get with it...Speciman, El Dorado....are you guys saying that I should just run Stabilizer at fp which is 10 or a click or two from that? Dang it.... looks like I may have to go back and scan the areas again....with a higher stabilizer setting....I 'd hate to think I may have missed some nuggs....

[Uncle Ron]

Darn, I've been running my stabilizer at 1 with the gain at 12-15 ... Motion Very Slow...Deep...Enhance... Panties, un-wadded.... Been finding some real dinks at the surface, doing fine on larger deeper ... But maybe I better revisit the Stabilizer setting and just screw around with all the other settings??? I was so certain and now I'm confused!!! ... Cheers, Unc

[Relichunter2]

That's the thing, like you I ran my stabilizer very low 2-3 range and cranked up the gain..but now I am all excited to go back to a few of my spots and recheck everything...with a higher stabilizer setting..never know...there may be some nuggs lurking...that I could not hear...

[FlakMagnet]

Just to be clear,

the Stabilizer recommendation I have forwarded is not just my own opinion.

I am passing along this information from JP who, as we all know, knows these things from direct experience.

Before each new Minelab release and in concert with Minelab engineers,

he tests why the setting work the way they do when they are set to certain levels

and once the new model is released, very generously passes along his knowledge to us regular folks

of the sort I put up.

fwiw

[nvchris]

My method,

Flick it into deep and run the auto tune. (this is for EMI)

Then,

Flick it back to Normal, with factory presets. Ground balance accurately.

With the factory preset on the stabilizer then adjust the gain till its just starting to get "unstable" then back off the stabilizer one or two values.

If its still to chatty then I start selecting different audio filters and motion settings.

When I choose different timings then I revisit the gain/stabilizer settings.

The mistake I see most often is operators preforming a poor/hasty GB.

High gain and low stabilizer is like stepping on the gas and break at the same time.

Edited December 19, 2013 by nvchris

[FlakMagnet]

Chris that is interesting stuff.

Do you also turn up Gain to it's highest setting when you tune (and then set it back to where you will detect with it).

Lots of people think that helps.

Like you I am a maniac for a precise Ground Balance.

I think it is one of the most overlooked and abused aspects of detecting

especially with a Minelab.

I know you pay attention to it as I have watched you when we detect together.

If I could make one recommendation to people who want to learn a Minelab

it would be to learn to Ground Balance well and Ground Balance often.

[nvchris]

Since I run big round coils most of time I don't bother with maxing out the gain for an auto tune.

You can make a custom setting with max gain and flick into that for a quick way to access a ratty setting.

(front panel > custom- normal- deep )

I have spent time testing the benefits (or lack of) cranking the gain and the results don't vary more then a few value points on the manual tune screen.

Another point on the stabilizer, a higher setting combined with lower gain can give a slightly better signal on faint deep targets, and I prefer this route as compared to using the deep audio filter.

A few hours spent testing various setting combinations builds a mental library of options, and thats where the GPX shines with its almost limitless adjustability for the vast variety of target sizes, depth, emi and ground conditions.

Edited December 20, 2013 by nvchris