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beaudurkee

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Howdy,

Having read the recent posts about claim jumping... I wanted to ask a few questions. Being fairly new to the hobby of prospecting, claims are something I don't know as much about, as I would like. I did join the gpaa and have basically been going to those locations, so as not to be treading on someone else's claim. I know people pay for their claims and I certainly do not want to be where I am not supposed to be.

I have been going out doing more metal detecting lately. I see different types of markers and actions by others that have me confused.

First the markers. I see what are clearly newer claim markers. I'm never sure how they mark a area; corner, middle, how much area, etc. I have been just trying to give them a wide berth, but the idea of claim jumping and creating a possible confrontation makes me uncomfortable. I also see rock stacks all over. I have been told they are claim markers. I have olso been told the stacks are old and don't mean anything today.

Actions. I see other's with detectors wondering around willy nilly with what seems like no regard to any claim markers. I have stopped people and asked them and I seem to get a different answer from everyone. I have even been told the claim markers don't apply to people with metal detectors, by a guy swinging a $5,000 minelab. You would figure someone that has made that type of investment would have a better understanding of the rules.

Any advice/info or direction to a source of either would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Beau

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Beaudurkee, I have been watching your posts and I like your style. I am going to give you my point of view.

First of all finding ownership of claims, it is not easy and you have to learn the systems, people unwilling to to learn will be the ones

eventualy having an unplesant conversation with the claim owner. The guy with the $5000 Minelab is an unprincipaled A-------

and the same person who always violates the law no matter what he is doing,driving, working,home and esewhere.

Learn the BLM LR-2000 system, even though the Geocommunicator is no longer part of it the pubilic land survey swstem still gives you acess to the mining claims in a number of forms. ( TIP: when using it check mark thr Pss, do not check mining claims)

Learn the county recorders system for retreiving records, once you see how easy it is you will be amazed, you can find how to do all this by doing searches,,a lot off them are on line. There are posts on this forum explaining the systems.

Learn the BLM requirements for making a mining claim, same with the state requirements, as a last minute check on an are you want to prosect call the county recorder and ask them if they have any new claims ( since a certain date) then you can refer to previous calls to them, if you are close to the recorders office a box of krispy Kreemes and a Starbucks cupon goes a long way!

There are actually people who hire peole to check the claim status weekly,

There is no requirement for constanly maintaining claim markers and people will tear them down and then tell you it was not marked, it is their responsibilty to Know the status of the property. Get a good GPS.

Thats my 2 cents

Good Luck

Max

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I've replaced 2 torn down signs on my claims close to town this week and carry a stack of them in both trucks. Plenty of claimjumper holes and trash already,hate to be'm when caught as I lost my sense a humor on this subject many years ago. Educate with the claim manual from BLM or copy from the net.-John

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It is encouraging to know there are still people who believe in respecting other peoples rights and properties. Many of the people who post here spend a lot of time out in the fields, and are dedicated to the search for gold The time I spend out searching is recreational and not my lifes calling.

I belong to RRPC and GPAA and between the two clubs around the Phoenix area where I live, they have more claims than I will ever visit. The Roadrunners club does an excellent job of marking their claims and the maps and directions to reach the claims are easy to follow. The claims are tested for gold, although they have been well worked over.

I will never find the "mother load" this way but a little color is the only treatment for Gold Fever!

Visit some clubs and you will find experienced people willing to help. Many of my most memorable experiences are helping newbies find there first gold.

If your aim is to find the next mother load, Research and swing a Big Stick (detector).

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Get mapping that shows township, range, section and meridian.

Pick a location.

Visit or call the your BLM office. The folks in the office are very helpful, their are public computer stations for that purpose.

Also the WSPA can help with $ our claims lease program it's a great way to gain membership to a mining association with claims proven to hold detectable gold.

Once you get the hang of it its quite easy to find the recorded status of an area of interest.

Nothing wrong with pulling/looking at the claim paper out of a discovery monument, just put it back as you found it.

Best of luck!

Chris

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Beaudurkee, I have been watching your posts and I like your style. I am going to give you my point of view.

First of all finding ownership of claims, it is not easy and you have to learn the systems, people unwilling to to learn will be the ones

eventualy having an unplesant conversation with the claim owner. The guy with the $5000 Minelab is an unprincipaled A-------

and the same person who always violates the law no matter what he is doing,driving, working,home and esewhere.

Learn the BLM LR-2000 system, even though the Geocommunicator is no longer part of it the pubilic land survey swstem still gives you acess to the mining claims in a number of forms. ( TIP: when using it check mark thr Pss, do not check mining claims)

Learn the county recorders system for retreiving records, once you see how easy it is you will be amazed, you can find how to do all this by doing searches,,a lot off them are on line. There are posts on this forum explaining the systems.

Learn the BLM requirements for making a mining claim, same with the state requirements, as a last minute check on an are you want to prosect call the county recorder and ask them if they have any new claims ( since a certain date) then you can refer to previous calls to them, if you are close to the recorders office a box of krispy Kreemes and a Starbucks cupon goes a long way!

There are actually people who hire peole to check the claim status weekly,

There is no requirement for constanly maintaining claim markers and people will tear them down and then tell you it was not marked, it is their responsibilty to Know the status of the property. Get a good GPS.

Thats my 2 cents

Good Luck

Max

Thanks for the info, I really didn't even know where to start.

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I have a few claims and honestly seeing someone on them would not neccessarily anger me. I have a discovery post setup but no markers. The whole area is claimed up here from top to bottom. Legally I dont have to post corners but its a good idea. maybe this year I will do this but need good GPS for it I think.

Basically it would come down to thier attitude towards it when i approach them.

I claimed an area so that I would have a spot to go without problems....plus the gold is good!! which helps. It was available to claim and if I didn`t.....certainly someone would have.

There are signs of people working down there and i have had a few things taken....not big items.

I have seen people did look at my equipment stored there but never took anything there so at least their honest claim jumpers.

I do have signs up and waiting to find some tore down or shot up :brows: nothing as of yet however.

As long as they stay out of where I am working it probably would be fine for me... I am a faily easy going guy and most miners i meet are good people... plus sometimes it opens up other areas they may know for me to check out.New ground is always nice.

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I did not mind people prospecting on my claims. I found a lot of them and they were usually just greenhorns with no clue where to go. Made a few good friends in those claim jumpers.

A few guys hit it way too hard. Some even sold "prospecting permits" to pan my claims. So sometimes things get out of hand.

It all depends on the mindset of the claim owner. I have never been refused permission on a claim that was not being commercially developed. Usually all you need is a few names of the major players in the area and you will have your choice of spots. In some places it may be a lot harder than that. It just depends on the type of folks you are dealing with.

It is always good to ask for permission. Sometimes it is better to ask for forgiveness though. A successful prospector gets the hang of knowing which one is more appropriate in each situation.

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I've prospected several claims to which I don't have access through a club or whatnot. However, I looked up the owners and got permission, first.

I like to do a lot of Internet prospecting before my feet touch the dirt. And the claim owners are a matter of public record. So I get in touch with them and ask permission. Worst they can do is say no. If the answer is no I thank them for their time and move on.

As a member of several clubs here in AZ, I have a lot of ground available. And I suck at finding gold on any of it. But I have fun, so that's all that really matters to me.

Would I love to find a goodly amount, well hell yeah. But I'm not going to get ticked if I don't (if I did, I would be perpetually pissed off, which isn't any way to live).

The guy with the 5000 and stupid mentality is gonna find his stuff legally seized by the proper authorities and a federal trespass on his permanent record. I say stupid because he's had the chance to learn, and chose to take the peckerhead approach.

As the prospector or whatever you want to talk yourself, if you are hunting for locateable minerals, it is YOUR job to know A) where you are and B) land status of same.

Many, if not most, claim owners will just tell ya to quit and get. However, it only takes one to ventilate you... and some are surly and not caring enough about the potential for jail to care much. It also depends on your attitude when challenged, too. Flies love honey, but even a fly eventually gets their fill.

Have I ever screwed up and wandered on a claim that wasn't available to me? Absolutely. But I realize it and make changes. Not that the rightful owner would have much worry... I'm only there to clean up.some trash for them, or so.it would seem lately LOL

Edited by GlennM
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My claims are all well marked, with a lot of signs, wooden posts and/or metal pipes cemented in.

Many sheet metal signs 15 or 16 foot high up in tree's, so they are tough to tear down, without an extension ladder handy.

Doing so, gives on-site public notice, an active claim exists there.

Even so, more times than I can remember, when pulling into one of my placer claims. I found a guy, family, group, RV & their campsite on my mining claim. Most often, the guy, family, kids or group were panning, sluicing & sniping for gold, metal detecting, or rock hounding for mineral specimens.

Most often, I just set up camp nearby & went about my business, without saying a word to them. Sometimes, if the family or kids were not having any luck, I would give them a lesson in where to & how to pan for gold.

In my mind, with innocent folks like that, it’s best to make friends with them, simply because what damage can they do. Several times, after informing them, I owned the mining claim, I gave them written permission to do what they were doing there.

Once, an Iraqi war veteran (minus one leg), wife & kids, in an older VW van had a camp on one of my claims, was working it hard with a highbanker, just trying to gather enough money, to feed themselves & fuel to get down the road, to family in a State further on. Him, I gave permission to stay & work it, as long as he wanted to. Another time, with local family, in dire straights, going through hard times. I pulled out my land status data on the area & helped them stake & file a decent productive placer claim of their own.

Other times, if someone had a long term camp set up & they were using a suction dredge, or a shoveling lots of material full blast into a high banker, that knew better. I would let then know, SORRY, I own the mining claim & mineral rights here. Tell them, finish out the day, but beyond that, STOP.

Most often, they were apologetic, claiming ignorance & all ended fine. Only a few times, did it get confrontational. Even then, I stayed polite, took out my digital camera, took a picture of what was going on, including their vehicle & license plate and informed them. I was about to call the local sheriffs office, file a mineral trespass & theft complaint against them. They usually were disgruntled, but left ASAP.

Only a couple times did it come to having a sheriffs deputy actually come out there. One, left quickly, with apologies to all, another idiot got belligerent with the deputy & ended up getting arrested.

Best to play it by ear, depending on what’s going on.

I would rather make a friend, than an enemy.

Especially if they are locals, that could cause you future problems, by vandalizing your vehicles, camp or equipment.

Edit to add, never objected to tiny bikini's, topless or nude skinny dipping college girls in the stream, creek or river, no matter how much mining they were doing, LOL.

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Edited by elder-miner
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My claim is marked per regulations plus multiple signage. :112:

I'm an easy goin' guy, but,...

I'm a SOB when it comes to mineral tresspassers. :old:

I always have a camera handy, so leave now or else.

Give me any crap, you are going to jail.

No excuses, I will prosecute and maybe even sue for damages.

So, don't F#%& with me! :5bat:

I can't stand liers or thieves. :Just_Cuz_15:

I've just had it with John Q. Public. :barnie:

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CRAP HAPPENS

Once, years back an attorney hired me to document who legitimantly owned a placer claim.

Situation was, guy pulls up to his claim with his dredge in tow on a trailer & another guy was dreging it, with a 6 inch dredge.

Confrontation was bad, got ugly & result was a few bullet holes in the dredge in the water.

Police came, arrests were made.

Long story short, neither owned it.

Both had overstaked a valid placer claim, that was senior by 14 years.

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Those guys got what they deserved. Didn't show due diligence in researching the area

before filing.

I researched the area where I claimed for about 4 months just to make sure I was legit.

I got familiar with about 5 square miles. What was, what is, and such.

Per the laws, I will allow fishermen, hunters, and site seers to come around, just don't

interfear with my operation or steal from me.

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Purdone crossing should be renamed Pervert crossing as never saw so much skin/perversion/theft from any spot on the entire motherlode. 1 mile+ up spent almost a summer in 91/92,heavy poundage,BIG arse monster boulders,lotza naked chicks wooohoooo-John

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The best thing you can do to learn about the mining, IMHO, is to join a club. Once you get the guide and go to their claims, you can learn how to mine. I have my own claim now but it took 8 months for me to figure it out. I would have shaved two months of haphazard wandering by joining a club earlier. By going to the club claims, you don’t have to worry about stuff like BLM land, State Trust Land, whether its claimed, private property, mineral removal areas, or national monuments. Finding those claims in the club guides will teach you so much that you need to know and wandering to the corner markers will help you learn more.

I go to LR2000 to see if the area I’m looking at is claimed or not. I go to a state site to make sure the land is claimable and not private property, or state trust land. Finally, I’ll go to the county site to see if anyone has recorded recently on the area I want to claim. It’s a tough, tedious, process and this isn't foolproof. When someone files a claim withthe county, it can take three weeks for it to show in the coutny database. So you can do everything correct, but still end up doing sdomething wrong. THere's so many ways to stake a claim in a 160 acre conrer section it could take all day walking around to find corner markers, and without papers these could very well be expired. With the open land, you can prospect on it, but you’re also taking a risk that someone else will claim it if you take too much time, and the claim goes to the first to claim. There’s software to help out, for my local area, the best for me would be footprints, but unfortunately, my claim is just outside their coverage area.


I’ve only had my claim for a few months, but have had no problem with the corner markers. Only thing is the Sharpie Magic Marker I wrote on the signs with faded in two weeks. I do hear here in AZ, the Cows like to rub up against the PVC pipes, but I haven't seen any knocked over at all.


My claim is properly marked, and really isolated, so I’d be surprised to see someone working on it; however, by being properly marked, the 40 acres have corner posts on them but these posts are not visible from the drivable wash that goes through the claim. I do see signs that people have hunted on it. I find plenty of shotgun shells. They can legally hunt and camp on my claim as long as they aren't removing minerals.

40 Acres is a lot of land to look through. I could spend years looking at this area.

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:goodpost: Chris, After I found out about Majic Markers I got a bottle of black touchup paint, its got the brush in it and is a good strong bottle and it sticks to PVC like crazy.

Max

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