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Desertsunburn

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Just sent in another 28.7g of nugs for assay.

After melt ended up being 27.5g and they assayed at 89.5% or 21.48Karat.

Jim

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Who did you send them To?

What did they Charge?

I am a gold buyer, they don't charge me anything.

Jim

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Jim were the nugs all from the same area ???

Or a mixture ?

Same area.

Jim

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Aren't the nuggets worth more as nuggets?

Well, if you do not have them assayed how on earth do you honestly know what you are selling or what you are buying. That's like driving a car blindfolded, IMHO. On either side of the coin, you could really make a costly mistake when you don't know. Some people will buy nugs at some inflated price. Not worth my time trying to find those folks and dealing with them. It's like dealing with a bunch of old pissy women that are OTR. Some folks have other experiences. So, I just do it like the old timers did. Find it, take to the assay office, get money, eat and get drunk! :D

Edited by Desertsunburn
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You are going to find that the coarse gold is a lot less pure than the fine. The dusty placer is generally in the high 90's and the coarser gold is in the high 80's.

At least that has been my observations from the limited placer and hardrock veins I have explored.

Nature does a good job of purifying the gold in small pieces. Impurities oxidize, sufide, chlorinate and go away. Rocks erode out of the gold. It is constantly being mechanically and chemically purified. Nuggets have much less surface area/ounce and the alloys and impurities are locked inside.

Even in the one hard rock vein I have experience with...In the thick places where gold is holding the hematite together it is in the high 80's with silver and copper being about equal in the native metal (the vein yeilds 3X the silver as gold by weight overall). In the quartz and andesite where the gold is finely divided a simple crush yields small particles that are 98% pure. It seems the tiny gold is in/under the silica in the vein and more pure, where as the big masses are out in the hematite vein filling away from silica and holding other non-ferrous metals as alloys.

So I think particle size has a lot to do with average purity. And the individual placer area does too. There are spots where the nuggets are barely 60%. So all bets are off when trying to guess the gold content in natural gold.

Edited by Bedrock Bob
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I have seen results BOTH ways.

And also color playing a factor.

And 1 single area can hold different types , colors, and textures of both fines and nuggets.

I'll take a nugget anytime compared to fines.

I can get fines every day if I wanted BUT YA can't get a nugget just anytime can YA ?????

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You make a great point Frank. To some, nuggets are worth more. To others they are just weight. I think gold prospectors are all unanimous about how they feel on this subject. But then outside of the prospecting/mineral collecting community it is probably the polar opposite. You could really search to find someone to buy a one ounce nugget for more than spot!

Prospectors are the only people that have ever paid me more for a nugget than processed gold. And unless your market is that very limited audience then I would say that a nugget is probably not worth any more than an equal amount of fine placer or and equal amount of plating stripped off circuit boards.

And like we were discussing on the other thread about gold prices...There comes a point where the spot price would override any other type of value a big piece might have. In most circumstances that is the case today. Unless of course the specimen is very large and/or very unique.

Sort of like the difference between a car collector and a scrap iron buyer. That '68 Hemi "Cuda body could be worth a pile to the right guy, but it is only worth 3 cents a pound in scrap metal.

Edited by Bedrock Bob
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Hi Glenn!

It took me many years to understand that material things do not mean a thing to what is important in life. That said, it really did not sink in until a few years ago. Once I figured that out and let go of the perceived importance of material items, including meteorites and silver and gold, I feel a lot better about life in general.

It's all about the hunt for me. Yesterday, I had a client here that for some unknown reason mentioned meteorites. I do have boxes of meteorites...mostly Wendy or I have found. I pointed to a few small wall displays I have that have meteorites in them and she gasped! I walked over to the display, opened it up and then walked back to her and gave my famous meteorite lecture..."They are older than Earth itself". She was amazed that she got to hold it. Anyways, she left here with a small Nantan meteorite and a nice polished slice (1 micron finish) of a Gold Basin meteorite. I find it much more rewarding to give these things away than to hoard them.

Back to gold. In my life, I've never found much gold. I have been lucky twice with some good finds. All totaled under 2 oz. So hunting for gold, meteorites, relics is only a hobby for me that I enjoy and I just dont have the need to hoard. I can't eat or drink it, I can't use it as tender to buy things I need. I've never found a pretty nugget as some of you have. It's not the material things that are important to me. It's all about the hunt, the friends I hunt with, and certainly getting out into nature! It's my church.

Someone said you only live once. That is not true at all! You live every day. You only die once and you cant take this stuff with you. Man, have I surely changed in the last few years!

Think about all the real prospectors and miners out there. They do not hoard this stuff. Never did. This stuff gets sold as fast as they can get it out of the ground and to a buyer. That is really the history of gold prospecting. How many stories have you ever read about a real prospector coming out of the desert to only hoard their gold? Not many if any! That gold was their paycheck.

And trust me, both parties, buyer and seller, knew the assay before money changed hands. Earlier, I was joking about the eating and getting drunk, but I think you got the idea. There are a lot of small time miners around working hard at extracting gold out of the ground.

When they turn in their lot, it's gets assayed 'before' money changes hands. Has been that way forever as best I can tell. This is where I see the big difference in cultures. The hobbyist / collector types generally have a hoarders mentality and generally think what they have is worth more than it actually is. This only works because both sides of this coin generally think the same way when they buy. The collector that buys may in fact be caught up in the media hype and has lost or doesn't have much common sense! (respectfully speaking) Nuggets generally bring alot more money individually, but you seldom see large quanites of nuggets doing this overall. What you see and hear on TV about value on some of these gold mining shows is pretty much BS. You really would have to be a fool to buy 80 pounds of 80 to 94% gold at 100% spot or more. You would sooner or later run out of money and go bankrupt. The market simply does not work that way. Now, if you have billions of dollars and could speculate on it for a period of time, you might make more, but making up a 15 to 20% loss on a buy is going to be really tough! Any gain on this loss would be eaten up in time and labor attempting to sell it. Don't personally know any billionaires but I'd bet they arn't custom to taking 15 to 20% losses on anything they do!

Anyways, I think if you have nuggets and you can sell at some inflated price well over spot, I think you should really consider doing it! Put the money into a new detector or the gas tank or pay for the next awesome hunt! Okay, I spent my 2 cents.

I am kinda on a roll here trying to keep my mind off the fact I have to pick up a good friend at the crematory today.

Cheers

Jim

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Jim,

The spot value of your post is only 2 cents, but its intrinsic value is about 5 cents. The collectors value could be as high as a whole dime! You have provided a better value than an investment in gold even though the profit margin in only a few cents.

Gold is good for nothing except looking at and finding. Sooner or later pretty girls will have it all and guys will spend way too much for it. A fact of life. It really does not make a darn bit of difference how much it is worth becasue a prospector will spend more per ounce finding it than a lovestruck buffoon will spend for the same gold encrusted in diamonds. The only people that will ever make any money on it will be the ones who buy it low and sell it high. ANd regardless of how high spot price goes very few of us will ever find enough to really make a difference in our economic status. A few thousand here and a few thousand there sure helps but lets face it...we are not going to eke out our fortunes mining gold. You can make a lot more over the course of a year flipping burgers at McDonalds!

If anyone at all is willing to pay me spot price today for nuggets I will gladly talk with them. I have about 5 ounces left, all pieces larger than 1 dwt and the largest is 3 oz. I will ship it to your doorstep or deliver it in person free of charge. All are above 95% pure, and many have great character. Most are hard rock pocket gold with crystalline formation. I have a lot of pieces that are growing out of the host rock and show big coarse gold. These are great for mounting in a collection. And all pieces come with GPS coordinates and a description of the geology and history of the area.

This is the stuff I have been saving because I figured some "collector" would want it for a premium price. But at these prices the "collectors" are pretty hard to find.

As you can see the larger gold I have found is worth full spot price to ME because I found them. But whether it is worth that much to anyone else remains to be seen.

If nuggets are truly worth more than spot price, and spot price is truly going to top $2000 per ounce, then this should be an iron clad investment. An easy 25% return.

So, lets see just how much gold is really worth to prospectors and collectors. If you are investing in gold and feel that it is worth sitting on while the prices continue to rise then this should be a lot better investment than Krugerands or one ounce ingots?

My feeling is that gold has topped out. Gas is going down, homes are selling and jobs are everywhere. Gold is going DOWN over the next year. I think almost every investor feels the same way as they are paying a lot less than they were 6 months ago even though spot price is higher. Most people are buying and selling it rather than hoarding it. If you believe nugggets are truly worth more than spot, and spot is going up, then this is your chance to snatch on to 5 ounces of the most beautiful gold you have ever seen.

Is there anyone out there that can prove the theory that nuggets are worth full spot price today? If there is I have some gold for you.

Edited by Bedrock Bob
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Easy, I can take a gram or two of small nuggets and inlay them on a piece of my jewelry and that gram of gold is now worth $100+.

Or I can buy .900 fine nuggets at 80% of spot, smelt them then alloy to 18K then turn into jewelry and make a good profit on those nuggets too.......This is the biggest reason I went to 9 months of specialized school to learn to be a goldsmith and why through many years of dredging I saved so much of my gold.......

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So how does that make nugget gold worth any more than spot price?

We all know that jewelers can make money doing what they do. So can any artist or craftsman. I can make a pile of boards worth $40K worth $200K by turning it into a home. That does not make the wood worth more.

You can take a nugget and create a valuable piece of jewelry. But that does not make one type of gold worth more. It simply reflects the price of your craftsmanship and hours of labor. If there is a strong market for natural gold jewelry and a fellow has a target of $40K a year income on his business plan then there will be a steady demand for larger nuggets. I don't see that happening. Sooner or later a jeweler will run out of what "he mined" and will need to begin buying gold to create those pieces. It does not seem that there is a market for that kind of gold...At least not at these high spot prices.

From my perspective nugget jewelry has a very slender market. It is confined only to prospectors/collectors and folks that can appreciate natural gold. That is a small subset of the entire consumer market. Then, most prospectors dont wear jewelry. They work with their hands and just dont adorn their fingers with baubles. So that leaves a very small clientele...much smaller than the people who would buy a nugget for more than spot price to begin with.

That is why I think that the prospects of selling larger pieces of gold for more than spot price in this market is small. So small as a matter of fact that a prospector is very lucky to get anywhere NEAR spot price for natural gold in any size or shape.

Edited by Bedrock Bob
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Easy, I can take a gram or two of small nuggets and inlay them on a piece of my jewelry and that gram of gold is now worth $100+.

Or I can buy .900 fine nuggets at 80% of spot, smelt them then alloy to 18K then turn into jewelry and make a good profit on those nuggets too.......This is the biggest reason I went to 9 months of specialized school to learn to be a goldsmith and why through many years of dredging I saved so much of my gold.......

I hear you but if you subtract your labor costs, etc., you probably did not make squat. Your work is beautiful, btw.''

I go to auctions where I see products made of gold being sold. These items sat and sat and sat on a shelf and no one every buys them. Not many jewelers are doing really well right now and I buy from them. Scratching to make a living.

I'd pay 96% of spot at time of sale to any of you guys I know on this list "after" the assay! :arrowheadsmiley:

I am still trying to perfect my smelting with gold. And my molds suck, looking at some nice graphite molds. Trying to find a 1 ounce mold that looks like the State of AZ that I can afford! Silver "smelting" is another thread I'd sure like to start!!!!!

Jim

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Jim,

Here is Santa Fe there are hundreds of silversmiths and goldsmiths. There are also dozens of foundries where they cast huge bronze and copper statues. It is truly an artists heaven.

Any molds you need can be made here. I have a good friend that is a "master caster". He has been working with gold, silver and bronze since he was 13 years old. His mother (Cal Peacock) has her work in the Smithsonian. They have done castings 30 feet tall! They designed a special mold for me that was in the shape of a Virgen De Guadalupe. It had intricate detail and some special requested features. It took them one night to carve the wax and I had my mold the next afternoon. It was an aluminum mold not intended to cast metal, but I know they can make molds for any casting purposes.

Over the holidays I will ask them about making an Arizona mold for gold and how much they would charge for it. I could not imagine that they would charge me a thing for the artwork, and if they had to send it to one of the foundries to make the mold they would get a great deal. Even if they could not do it they could certainly give me a name of a friend that could. That sort of thing is very big business in these parts.

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HEY ALL YOU SMART FELLERS OUT THERE...........

Why do any statistics or factual statements out there that I have always read about tell you that less than 5% of all the gold to be found is in NUGGET FORM ??????

Some statistics say much less than 5%.

GEE I wonder what the % of Rolls Royces, Bentleys, Ferrari, and etc The very top of the line of autos is compared to the rest of the cars out there.

I mean WHY can't I buy one of those type vehicles for the price of a CHEVY ???

You guys are FUNNY :ROFL: :ROFL: :cry2:

Edited by frank c
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I have heard that a half ounce nugget is rarer than a 2 ct. diamond. Now what they mean by "rarer" is subject to some arbitration.

And I suppose that 5% depends on what you consider a "nugget" too. Some guys call a little freckle sized flake a "nugget" and others call a fist sized hunk a "crumb".

No doubt about the rarity of a nugget. No arguing the beauty of a nugget. No haggling about the incredible time and patience it takes to find one. I think the only question is market value as opposed to spot price. And sadly enough the only people on earth that will pay more than spot price for any gold place some higher value on it. A nugget, a wedding ring, an ancient trerasure, etc. etc.

Unless you have a buyer that is focused on that "higher value" you are getting a little less than spot for the gold values in your nuggets. And if you have a market like that you are very lucky. It is almost as rare as a "nugget".

Unless you have a piece of gold that is more vauable in its native shape than it is on the open market it is worth whatever spot price is that day. As spot goes up it does not drive the collectors value up nor the rarity of the find. So at some point even the rarest of nuggets is worth less in collectors value than spot price. Todays gold prices have overridden the collectors value of almost all gold specimens that you would commonly see.

That is why my bigger nuggets are only that valuable to ME and not really to anyone else. I must reconcile the value that I instill in them vs. the actual market value of them...Which is evidently about 96% of their gold content, whatever that may be after smelting.

For any gold except MY nuggets that I HAVE FOUND I would consider that a very good deal. I would have been money ahead by selling my fine gold to Jim rather than the way I did. I figure the buyer made 8% of spot where Jim is advertising 4%. But for MY NUGGETS they are priceless...worth at least three times spot price due to thier rarity and beauty!

Edited by Bedrock Bob
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Jim,

Here is Santa Fe there are hundreds of silversmiths and goldsmiths. There are also dozens of foundries where they cast huge bronze and copper statues. It is truly an artists heaven.

Any molds you need can be made here. I have a good friend that is a "master caster". He has been working with gold, silver and bronze since he was 13 years old. His mother (Cal Peacock) has her work in the Smithsonian. They have done castings 30 feet tall! They designed a special mold for me that was in the shape of a Virgen De Guadalupe. It had intricate detail and some special requested features. It took them one night to carve the wax and I had my mold the next afternoon. It was an aluminum mold not intended to cast metal, but I know they can make molds for any casting purposes.

Over the holidays I will ask them about making an Arizona mold for gold and how much they would charge for it. I could not imagine that they would charge me a thing for the artwork, and if they had to send it to one of the foundries to make the mold they would get a great deal. Even if they could not do it they could certainly give me a name of a friend that could. That sort of thing is very big business in these parts.

Sounds good, Bob.

I think I'd like to get one made of graphite and obviously reusable. I have some odd home made melt ones and would like to try graphite.

Jim

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I know nothing about what they can do as far as graphite. I just realized that the type of work they do is probably more one-of-a-kind castings and a reusable graphite ingot mold might be a different animal all together. I really have no idea. They will surely know where to get one of those made though! I will check it out and see. The worst that could happen would be for me to learn something about it!

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I know nothing about what they can do as far as graphite. I just realized that the type of work they do is probably more one-of-a-kind castings and a reusable graphite ingot mold might be a different animal all together. I really have no idea. They will surely know where to get one of those made though! I will check it out and see. The worst that could happen would be for me to learn something about it!

The molds are not that expensive, really. if you google graphite ingot molds you can find them. I just have not seen one for the state of AZ around 1 oz. I've found nevada and a few others.

Jim

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Most are hard rock pocket gold with crystalline formation. I have a lot of pieces that are growing out of the host rock and show big coarse gold. These are great for mounting in a collection. And all pieces come with GPS coordinates and a description of the geology and history of the area.

This is the stuff I have been saving because I figured some "collector" would want it for a premium price. But at these prices the "collectors" are pretty hard to find.

You should list these on ebay. With some good photos and descriptions, you'd be surprised at what you might get for them. All depends on what you have. I've even seen dealers scour the listings looking for the underpriced specimens so they can sell at the mineral shows. You may not get 3,4 or 5 times spot but it will be well above it, even as high as it is now.

Steve

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You should list these on ebay. With some good photos and descriptions, you'd be surprised at what you might get for them. All depends on what you have. I've even seen dealers scour the listings looking for the underpriced specimens so they can sell at the mineral shows. You may not get 3,4 or 5 times spot but it will be well above it, even as high as it is now.

Steve

That has not been my experience. Your statement that "dealers scout the listings looking for underpriced specimens" is more accurate. There are a lot of specimens out there and the only ones that sell are the underpriced ones. I dont have any underpriced nuggets to sell.

I dont want 3-4 times spot. I was illustrating a point. It is an unproven alloy and people investing in gold these days are not collectors. They are investors. When gold was $500 an ounce people collected it. Very few invested in it. Now it is reversed.

In a market like this the people buying and selling are doing it in volume trying to make money at it. Very few folks will pay for raw gold that they could not turn around and sell easily if they needed to. It is a very poor time to collect specimens! People buy gold to sell and make a few percent. They do not buy gold when it is so high to hoarde it away.

I have sold a heck of a bunch of gold in the past several months and have seen exactly how things are changing from a sellers standpoint. Yes, there are a few individuals that may purchase nuggets at an inflated price. If you had to make a living dealing with these idiots you would be in the poor house. I think Jim illustrated that very well and I agree. And I dont need to sell the gold I was just illustrating that there is no real market for raw gold nuggets at a value higher than spot.

As far as e-bay is concerned we all know that you can purchase a lava rock that came form Mars for $10M and a hunk of quartz that will shield you from gamma rays for $30k. Sure you can peddle nuggets for inflated prices to people who are willing. But that does not reflect a true value of anyhting. It just shows there is a sucker born every day.

I think that I proved my point well. I offered to sell some beautiful gold ore for spot price in a group of guys that insist it is worth more than spot and will continue to increase in value. Yet there are no takers. There are no takers because there is no market. And if there is no market the value is worth what it is in the highest market. And that is the spot price for the gold value minus a few percent.

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Bob,

To me the cheapest way to sell it is on craigslist. They won't be charging you a % for each sell. Local delivery only, cash only. I'd list it in collectibles. Take a couple nice pictures and show em off with the right lighting. Put your phone number in it and don't use your

e-mail. I got spoofed the last time I used mine. lol! The listing I believe is good for 45 days. People cruise it 24/7 and if you find the right guy or lady you might be able to sell it all. And hopefully if it's a lady it's not a lesbianican...haha!! Oh and if you see a phone call area code you don't recognize, don't answer it.

Rim

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