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I may have discovered a new Element?


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Hi all,

I'm posting here because we all have experience with Meteor-wrongs. But this one has really got me stumped. So as always would like to hear your thoughts.

Info: When this was found, I was looking for the Sutter Mill Meteorite (did not find any).

This being so Black it caught my eye.

It did not stick to my rare earth magnet..and anyway, I already seen enough Sutter Mills to know its not!

Actually the story ended there, not magnetic,thus not a meteorite, just kept it as a nice smooth "cool rock".

Now this is where the story gets interesting...after walking by it for weeks..I kind of just thought it was a black river rock...So forgive me but took out my rock hammer..just to prove to myself it was a rock, gave if a direct hard blow, followed by a few more, and the hammer bounced off, and the stone actually did not even scratch, or dent or anything.

Ok, it won..and I walked away for more days..came upon it again, and decided to file a window..Metal file..back and forth..and could see silver color metal, actually thought it was Nickel, but remember not magnetic..so I really went at it...30 rubs on the file with pressure...The darn thing hardley opened but a slight window and left no black streak on the file.

You can see in photo's it did not even change the shape of the area filed..only took off a small area of the black..thus showing the Metal interior.

The rock is not very heavy..average, but unlike any I have ever come across.

P.S. THE PHOTO'S ARE LABLED FROM MY SUTTER's MILL HUNT, I AM NOT CLAIMING THIS TO BE A SUTTER'S MILL METEORITE, OR ACTUALLY ANY METEORITE, IN REALITY I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT IT IS? I'M STICKING WITH A NEW UNDISCOVERED ELEMENT..AND A VERY STONG ONE AT THAT!

YOUR THOUGHTS?

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post-26207-0-82407800-1337930119_thumb.j

post-26207-0-28848600-1337930280_thumb.j

post-26207-0-95664600-1337930331_thumb.j

post-26207-0-02119600-1337930383_thumb.j

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So far, so good, Thank-you. I was nervious to post in that I would look silly and every one was going to write "oh that's -----". And it would be something easy to recognize.

However, we now add 3 more knowledgeable people and it was great to hear your thought proccess's.

To answer Jason, no not even slightly Magnetic, also negative on the streak test (tile vs file), and I had many of the same thoughts you did..but this is some sort of natural rock (NUGGET) of nature vs a slag or Man made Metal Alloy. When you would see it you would have thought of those common Black smooth river rocks that every one uses to decorate walkway's or those trays in the home with candles and decorative rocks that are tumbled....except when you open those you have more rock on the inside,,,THIS IS METAL.

I'm also really not trying to be silly here, but it a lightweight Metal and the outer Black layer does not chip or even scratch to a metal hammer..and As I already mentioned, I have filed Magnitite and Hemitite and they leave streaks and file nicely, this light weight metal is lighter and harder then steel.

Any Alien or Top Secret (Military) Metals know out there with a natural oxidation and either river worn or flow as it came through the atmosphere, as something has rounded this over millions of years? This is probley some rare type element that sure can be used in modern society if they could find or produce enough of it, as its amazing.As for the Nobel Prize, I would accept, however all I did was pick up the Specimen. I am happy to have investigated the make-up, as I really was going to chuck-it as a river rock. I wish you could have seen my face when I looked with the 10x loop and there was shinny silvery metal looking back at me.

GeoJack, please let me know what your brother turns up with, as I can use that info as a start.

I look foward to anymore thoughts, and as always Thanks!

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Off the top of my head I believe both silver and lead produce a black oxide, but both of those metals are very soft in their pure form and I don't think that you found a silver nugget unfortunately. Do a simple bulk density test on it [record weight in grams (w1), put cup of distilled water on scale and zero scale, then suspend rock on string in water not touching cup and record weight (w2); bulk density = w1/w2] that will help you narrow in on what it might be.

I found this one silver-ish gray rock when I was a kid and I called it my "armor stone". It's about the size of the palm of my hand. My pellet gun wouldn't make a mark on it, neither would a hammer, and battery acid didn't do anything to it*. I still have it, no idea what it is, but it's still pretty neat.

* Don't let kids play with batter acid. :)

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Jason, Geo and Mike, so far you are my only hope. In the end I guess igot to pay some one to test this..as I am one not to sleep well at night not knowing.

Jason and Mike remind me of me..there still going at it..trying to come up with the answer..Thanks ..we will find out..I am starting to do some research on the internet..I never knew there is an aluminum that forms with a oxide of black..maybe it Black oxide Aluminum?..does this form in a nugget state..I don't know.

Anyone know what this is?

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cf1gb,

My guess is............drum roll please............http://periodictable.com/Elements/074/data.html

BTW, if that is tungsten I would say it's a very rare find you have. I can't find any pictures of river tumbled tunsten anywhere on the internet. But did find some picture of tungsten with a shiney black layer. Definitely a keeper.

Rim

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Hi, Rim

Will add Tungsten as a possibility.

Today, I will actually site with a book I forgot I own..Called the Elements that talk about each one and shows it and then describes it's uses

I will rule out all gases, etc and look to the White metals and then report what the only possibilites are.

I also agree it's a keeper, Tungsten or not..as knowone knows anything about it, thus its got to be rare..and if its valuable..even better. Its the opposite of Mikestang's saying "Every where I go I see the same rocks"..Not this one!

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P.S> If this cannot be ID'd..what proof do we have that it is not from the Sutter's Mill Fall?

I remember reading that some Meteorites are not Magnetic.

Also just because there are no flow lines , maybe this is the core and because it's not Nickel Iron it did not melt at the same point as other Meteorites.

MOST IMPORTANT NOTICE THAT THERE SEEM TO BE ABLATIONS ON THIS METAL!

I am stepping out on this one..I know But, if know one knows what it is..Then outter Space is not ruled out?

I better send these pic's to Peter J from SETI and see what his responce is?

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P.S> If this cannot be ID'd..what proof do we have that it is not from the Sutter's Mill Fall?

I remember reading that some Meteorites are not Magnetic.

Also just because there are no flow lines , maybe this is the core and because it's not Nickel Iron it did not melt at the same point as other Meteorites.

MOST IMPORTANT NOTICE THAT THERE SEEM TO BE ABLATIONS ON THIS METAL!

I am stepping out on this one..I know But, if know one knows what it is..Then outter Space is not ruled out?

I better send these pic's to Peter J from SETI and see what his responce is?

No, there is no way it is from the Sutter's Mill fall.

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After spending the afternoon going page by page of a book called The Elements which show's all 118 and there uses and photo's in Mineral state etc.. the results are

Nothing looks like this in its natural state. It is a rock made of metal, and it has clearly been tumbled in say a river for millions of years.

My only conclusion is it is some sort of rare earth metal in it's pure state.

But, I still have no conformation as to exactly what it is.

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Well the shape is indeed unusual if it is tungsten. Most tungsten that I have looked at on the net appears to be grayish in color in it's raw state. But I did find this one that looks to be kinda black and shiney. This pic is kinda tiny.

post-26159-0-40891200-1338148746.png

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Thanks Rim

We will solve this!

I have E-mailed the author of the book "The Elements, A Visual Exploration of every known Atom in The Universe"

If he does not know what it is , I"M RICH!

I also wrote to the SETI DR who's working the area for the Sutter Mill Meteorite, not because I think its Meteorite, but he may have been show others maybe like this , and would maybe be familiar?

Again, each time these people don't know what it is..like you said "it's a keeper". The less common it is the more valuable it gets?

If no one knows what it is , i'll send the $ to have it tested at a lab, but come hell or high water..I need to know!

Thanks again, for the effort you are putting in..P.S. I did see that same picture of Tungsten that you posted.

You know whats really making this interesting..all these photo's are usually of the element after processing..in nature these metals are usually found in rock mineral form..What we are looking for is a metal that forms in nature independent..such examples would be a gold nugget etc, as this is a metal nugget with a Black oxide? coating thats been rounded by millions of years of river action..like again a gold nugget.Yes, I know gold can forms in quartz and then becomes placer in a river as a nugget, my point is this Metal also may have broke free fron the host rock and then tumbled....but is still pure..not an alloy, as how could it be an alloy ( man made) and be river rounded?

I'll let you know..David.

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Jason, tomorrow I will perform spec gravity test..but first I got some batteries so my scale works. The specimen is 6.71 grams. I am familar with Canyon Diablo Meteorites and a similar size would be aprox 12-15 grams, I also checked again on the scratch test...NO scratch mark left at all on back of tile.Remember also on the file, no black streak Thers is also no crystalline structure on the metal under 10x loupe, just a Plat-gray dull color,however reflective in sunlight (shinny metal). So prior to spec-gravity test, about half the weight of a Iron-Nickel Meteorite. No scratch, Plat-gray metalic color. Not magnetic. :grr01:

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Jason, did the Spec-gravity test today..as stated dry weight is 6.71g ....distilled water test it comes in at 2.40 g.

Now what? Does this narrow the window or confirm?

And thank-you, last night I went to my book and looked up the atomic weight of elements 1/2 the weight of Iron..and guess what I came up with..ALUMINUM AND MAGNESIUM.

So lets say the spec gravity test confirms this, here is the last question I need to find...This thing is HARD, its naturally rounded by river action....Do either of those metels come in a pure mineral state? Because this is what state its in, it is not a rock ore that one melts down to produce the metal, and the river and oxide show's millions of years of wear...

Thank-you Jason..you have really put some thought into this and it is clear you are a very smart person. Thanks to all the other's also for your help, including Goldfinger for throwing his 2 cents in (which is what he also said this specimen is worh) :cry2:

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Just my 2 cents guess.

A piece of space junk. Could account for the light weight, hardness and rounded, blackened surface. :arrowheadsmiley:

Bob

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Jason, did the Spec-gravity test today..as stated dry weight is 6.71g ....distilled water test it comes in at 2.40 g.

You plug it into this formula:

( AIR WEIGHT )

(AIR WEIGHT) - (WATER WEIGHT)

Which would give you 1.5568, which seems wrong, that is pretty light, I'm also not sure if you should have that much difference between the air weight and the weight when hanging from a string submerged in water. That specific gravity is similar to that of marble.

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Rex...6.71 divided by 2.4 is almost 2.8...according to my math...

fred

I think you divide

Rex...6.71 divided by 2.4 is almost 2.8...according to my math...

fred

Fred, You're right, sorry, the formula I looked up was incorrect, or I interpreted it wrong, it's just dry weight divided by wet weight, I was taking the difference, subtracting the wet from the dry and then dividing the dry weight by that number, which was incorrect.

2.79, that's about the specific gravity of gypsum according to this chart:

http://www.reade.com.../spec_gra2.html

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